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Its not as if this problem will go in in perpetuity, The certificates purchased today expire in one year. Marriott does not have to extend them, They could, and I think should, be fair and possibly generous with the “mapping” or TP value. Yes, they will take a hit short term, possibly. Then again there were so many “gamers” out there that had no intention of staying in hotel that there could be a lot of breakage that would not be to the detriment of Marriott. Just take a look at some of the blogs and you see lots of people saying they never intended to use the certificate and all the bloggers said they would likely get a windfall so they went all in. Now they are posting asking what to do. I for one cannot wait until the suspense is over and we know what is going to happen. |
I think the sensible way to handle the legacy TPs is to keep the TPs in face value. If they are attached, then get whatever value you deserve. For un-attached, Cat 1-5 TPs should retain 25,000 MRs/night value. Cat-8 retains 40,000 MRs/night value. We can downgrade or upgrade from the base value. If you want to upgrade the 25,000/night TP to new Cat-7 at 60,000/night, you'll need 35,000/night more points. The TPs retain the original expiration dates. After 9/18, we can use those TPs to book all Marriott/SPG properties.
This way, everyone is kept whole. And Marriott would not need to deal with any mapping to new categories. We'll see what happens. Marriott has a month to figure this out. |
Originally Posted by RedSun
(Post 30095661)
This way, everyone is kept whole. And Marriott would not need to deal with any mapping to new categories. We'll see what happens. Marriott has a month to figure this out.
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Go with Cat 6 - more possibilities - downside only 30k MR = 10k SPG;
The downside on other option is no use at all - 150k MR lost
Originally Posted by milehighmike
(Post 30094971)
I have a dilemma, I have 300k points, enough for either a cat 1-5 120k miles or a cat 6 120k miles. I value the airline miles more then a higher category hotel.
Do I go with the cat 1-5 and save the extra points for something else, knowing that I have more flexibility regarding hotels to choose from, or do I go with cat 6 seeing as the value of this category could go up post merger, albeit at the risk of less availability? I have until t-minus 1 hour until midnight GMT to decide! Many thanks in advance |
Originally Posted by kenban
(Post 30095040)
My guess is certificates just become 7 night certificates worth x point a night. It is the cleanest and likely easiest approach. Do not even attempt to do any category mapping. A cat 1-5 certificate becomes 7 nights at 25k points a night, cat 6 is 30k etc. Any upgrades and downgrades just continue to be 30k points per a step the same as it is right now and they handle any mismatches at the time of booking.
We know that certificates will not be converted to points, as I predicted, so worth and value of the certificate is moot in this regard. However, we have been advised that after the dormancy, which I predicted, you can still surrender the certificate for a "reduced amount" which also clearly establishes that Marriott had no intention of being "generous" and returning full points unrestricted, as I predicted. Based on a, "worth" of 45K + 30K for each old category upgrade. I would estimate this is what the surrender points will be, possibly a few more in good faith but considering New TPs may have no residual "worth," that may be unlikely too. I believe that Marriott still has not finalized how they will handle the unattached certificates and are not withholding information nefariously. The chatter was growing with respect to TP's and starting to get a little noisy. Since TPs are pretty low on their priority list and head of loyalty said prior that cancelling all unattached certificates was a real possibility, it made sense to advise they can be attached, will get similar value, can be surrendered for reduced points, and will be subject to the new chart and then let them go dormant while more pressing issues are dealt with. Old Category number will NOT map to New Category number as they are not similar in value, again as I predicted. I doubt there will even be a conversion with the certificate laying dormant until the holder calls in to attach it. At that point you will select a hotel based on the point value of your certificate with no upgraded or downgrades permitted. An old Category 1-5 will be a New Cat 1-4, Old 7, New 5, for 6, 8, 9 an easy alignment could be as follows keeping in mind the new charts: Old Cat 6: New Cat 4, refund 30K or New Cat 5 +30K additional Old Cat 8: New Cat 5, refund 30K or New Cat 6 +60K additional Old Cat 9, New Cat 5, refund 60K or New Cat 6 +30K additional. If you want 7 nights in a New Category 7 your unattached certificate will need to have a value of 360K. James Everyone Happy, I know I am! Cheers. Edit: Inadvertently specified 300K for Cat 7, should be 360K |
Originally Posted by Flying for Fun
(Post 30095797)
Almost there! Except the new chart will go into effect on August 18th and the steps between the new catagories are not consistent, but rightly so as the value of the properties, in points, is commensurate to the respective new category steps.
We know that certificates will not be converted to points, as I predicted, so worth and value of the certificate is moot in this regard. However, we have been advised that after the dormancy, which I predicted, you can still surrender the certificate for a "reduced amount" which also clearly establishes that Marriott had no intention of being "generous" and returning full points unrestricted, as I predicted. Based on a, "worth" of 45K + 30K for each old category upgrade. I would estimate this is what the surrender points will be, possibly a few more in good faith but considering New TPs may have no residual "worth," that may be unlikely too. I believe that Marriott still has not finalized how they will handle the unattached certificates and are not withholding information nefariously. The chatter was growing with respect to TP's and starting to get a little noisy. Since TPs are pretty low on their priority list and head of loyalty said prior that cancelling all unattached certificates was a real possibility, it made sense to advise they can be attached, will get similar value, can be surrendered for reduced points, and will be subject to the new chart and then let them go dormant while more pressing issues are dealt with. Old Category number will NOT map to New Category number as they are not similar in value, again as I predicted. I doubt there will even be a conversion with the certificate laying dormant until the holder calls in to attach it. At that point you will select a hotel based on the point value of your certificate with no upgraded or downgrades permitted. An old Category 1-5 will be a New Cat 1-4, Old 7, New 5, for 6, 8, 9 an easy alignment could be as follows keeping in mind the new charts: Old Cat 6: New Cat 4, refund 30K or New Cat 5 +30K additional Old Cat 8: New Cat 5, refund 30K or New Cat 6 +60K additional Old Cat 9, New Cat 5, refund 60K or New Cat 6 +30K additional. If you want 7 nights in a New Category 7 your unattached certificate will need to have a value of 300K. James Everyone Happy, I know I am! Cheers. |
Originally Posted by RedSun
(Post 30095661)
I think the sensible way to handle the legacy TPs is to keep the TPs in face value. If they are attached, then get whatever value you deserve. For un-attached, Cat 1-5 TPs should retain 25,000 MRs/night value. Cat-8 retains 40,000 MRs/night value. We can downgrade or upgrade from the base value. If you want to upgrade the 25,000/night TP to new Cat-7 at 60,000/night, you'll need 35,000/night more points. The TPs retain the original expiration dates. After 9/18, we can use those TPs to book all Marriott/SPG properties.
This way, everyone is kept whole. And Marriott would not need to deal with any mapping to new categories. We'll see what happens. Marriott has a month to figure this out.
Originally Posted by Starwood Lurker IV
(Post 30086147)
...
After 8/18, certificates cannot be upgraded or downgraded, regardless of when they were purchased. ... Kind regards, Alexandra Baker Specialist, Social Media Starwood Hotels and Resorts |
I really think--hope--the no upgrade/downgrade either a misunderstanding or they'll fold on it. I just today had a CSR swearing up and down I could upgrade my certificate as of 9/19.
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Originally Posted by dsquared37
(Post 30095826)
Nope, there is no modification of TPs after 8/18. See below.
[MINE] |
Originally Posted by dsquared37
(Post 30095826)
Nope, there is no modification of TPs after 8/18. See below.
[MINE] |
Originally Posted by jrey
(Post 30095837)
They have never been upgradable or downgradable anyway. If they had to do it, they would cancel and reissue a new one.
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Originally Posted by RedSun
(Post 30095834)
The SPG Lurker just relays what she was told. That is not official or final. Not sure if Marriott has decided yet. I do not trust anything we hear....
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Originally Posted by dsquared37
(Post 30095848)
The act itself is an upgrade/downgrade. You're presenting a difference without a distinction.
So that could be the wording they passed on to the lurker. |
Originally Posted by estnet
(Post 30095754)
No Marriott's had years to figure this out - the merger didn't just happen this month - but it seems to have not been a concern for them :(
A few thousand people who had every opportunity to use their certificates but weren't in a hurry... low priority. |
Originally Posted by jrey
(Post 30095852)
I presented it from my experience. When I asked them to upgrade, they said no they couldn't do. They could however cancel and reissue. So that could be the wording they passed on to the lurker. _____________________________ It's absolutely astounding that individuals, who would otherwise be patently aware that an agent's knowledge is in most cases less than a FTers', are accepting and posting what random agents are saying about the coming transition. In some cases even trusting random agents to a Lurker who is presenting information that has been precleared by the MR team in charge. Do I believe that all pronouncements are the final word or that the purported T&Cs are final... hopefully not. But to go around and claiming they are wrong because of gut feelings and beliefs etc is madness. There is so little rationale for all the kvetching and griping and demanding in here it's absurd. It reminds me of children in an elementary playground making up rules for a game. Good luck to all, see you on the other side. |
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