Jul 30, 2016, 4:21 pm
Last edit by: Slickw
LINK TO CHART
Legacy to New Travel Package Conversion (effective August 2019)
A Marriott supervisor can currently convert your legacy travel package into the new category mapping. If you hold a Category 6, 8, or Tier 1-3 legacy certificate, it's ideal to downgrade your certificate before converting so that points don't potentially get lost in the process.
The codes for the new partial packages are:
New Cat 1-4: QP83
New Cat 5: QP91
New Cat 6: QP99
New Cat 7:
The legacy certificates map to the new certificates as such:
Cat 1-5 => Cat 1-4
Cat 6 => Cat 1-4
Cat 7 => Cat 5
Cat 8 => Cat 5
Cat 9 => Cat 6
Tier 1-3 => Cat 6
Tier 4-5 => Cat 7
==================================================
If you are unsure where you will use your 7 night stay, when you request the package, just ask for a category 1-5 hotel. That way you are out of the least number of points. If later, you decide to book for a higher level category, then you can do so and pay the difference the travel package points. If you can't use your certificate within the year, then as close to the one year anniversary (without going over!) call to extend the certificate for one more year. That's as long as they will typically allow, one extension. There is an option to expedite the mileage delivery to within three business days (sometimes faster) for $15. There are reports that this fee may be waived for platinum members.
Effective April 1 2017 re: Southwest & the companion pass:
"Purchased points, points converted from hotel and car loyalty programs, and e-Rewards, e-Miles, Valued Opinions and Diners Club, points earned from Rapid Rewards program enrollment, tier bonuses, flight bonuses, and partner bonuses (excluding points bonuses earned on the Rapid Rewards Credit Cards from Chase) do not count toward Companion Pass."
************
Can I book SPG properties with my Marriott Travel Package? As of 9/1/2018 apparently not. see https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/30155836-post6529.html
Legacy to New Travel Package Conversion (effective August 2019)
A Marriott supervisor can currently convert your legacy travel package into the new category mapping. If you hold a Category 6, 8, or Tier 1-3 legacy certificate, it's ideal to downgrade your certificate before converting so that points don't potentially get lost in the process.
The codes for the new partial packages are:
New Cat 1-4: QP83
New Cat 5: QP91
New Cat 6: QP99
New Cat 7:
Originally Posted by Marriott Rewards Insider
Members who purchased a Category 6, Category 8 or Tier 1-3 certificate prior to 8/18 are able to request a one-time exchange for a Travel Package one category lower. This process will cancel your current Travel Package, reissue a Travel Package one category lower and result in a refund of 30,000 points to your account. To submit a request, follow these steps:
Source: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marr...es-update.html
- Select “Packages - Deals” from the “Topic” drop down menu
- Submit your request
Source: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marr...es-update.html
The legacy certificates map to the new certificates as such:
Cat 1-5 => Cat 1-4
Cat 6 => Cat 1-4
Cat 7 => Cat 5
Cat 8 => Cat 5
Cat 9 => Cat 6
Tier 1-3 => Cat 6
Tier 4-5 => Cat 7
==================================================
If you are unsure where you will use your 7 night stay, when you request the package, just ask for a category 1-5 hotel. That way you are out of the least number of points. If later, you decide to book for a higher level category, then you can do so and pay the difference the travel package points. If you can't use your certificate within the year, then as close to the one year anniversary (without going over!) call to extend the certificate for one more year. That's as long as they will typically allow, one extension. There is an option to expedite the mileage delivery to within three business days (sometimes faster) for $15. There are reports that this fee may be waived for platinum members.
Effective April 1 2017 re: Southwest & the companion pass:
"Purchased points, points converted from hotel and car loyalty programs, and e-Rewards, e-Miles, Valued Opinions and Diners Club, points earned from Rapid Rewards program enrollment, tier bonuses, flight bonuses, and partner bonuses (excluding points bonuses earned on the Rapid Rewards Credit Cards from Chase) do not count toward Companion Pass."
************
Can I book SPG properties with my Marriott Travel Package? As of 9/1/2018 apparently not. see https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/30155836-post6529.html
Marriott Travel Packages
Aug 5, 2018, 8:50 am
#4681
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Toronto (YYZ)
Posts: 6,279
If the current cat-5 is turned into a new cat-5 certificate (and similarly for other higher category certificates), there wouldn't be a need to book now to maximize usage. Very few, if any, hotels jumps from current cat 5 (25K/night) to new category 6 (50K/night in regular season) or above.
No, that's false. The reimbursement rates depend on occupancy. At the very top hotels, the occupancy levels are likely to be very high for this year and next because of new redemption structure for this year. BTW, the new TP certificates can be used for any season, including the peak seasons, so it's highly unlikely the current floater certificates, if they survive 8/18, would have seasonal restrictions.
I'm certain the legacy certificates will have seasonal restrictions this is a very simple way to "devalue" them without taking away the number of nights they are good for.
Last edited by imverge; Aug 5, 2018 at 8:56 am
Aug 5, 2018, 8:57 am
#4682
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 298
Since Marriott has to deal with more than just 7 day TP certs (there are also 5 day TP certs, CC certs, Mega Bonus certs, other promotional certs) I would think that they look at a broader landscape.
Handing back Points may sound easy, but how would that work with seasonal redemption rates in 2019? It wouldn't. Unless you would hand back Peak Season point rates. Remember, MR "promised" you that you'll be able to redeem the cert for x nights at a cat. x property as long as there is award availability.
So, I still believe that the reward categories will remain the same and cat. 8 and above will be mapped to cat. 8. This will not be a straightforward IT exercise. It may Sound simple but chances are that this is more complex than many of us would think. For instance, just think how MR could/would/should handle already attached certs (which may be detached at any point in time in the future. Convert them now? If so, you'd need to detach the certs from the reservation, create an updated cert and re-attach this to the reservation. What about the expiration date of these certs? As you can see, this won't be easy and requires an IT solution.
Handing back Points may sound easy, but how would that work with seasonal redemption rates in 2019? It wouldn't. Unless you would hand back Peak Season point rates. Remember, MR "promised" you that you'll be able to redeem the cert for x nights at a cat. x property as long as there is award availability.
So, I still believe that the reward categories will remain the same and cat. 8 and above will be mapped to cat. 8. This will not be a straightforward IT exercise. It may Sound simple but chances are that this is more complex than many of us would think. For instance, just think how MR could/would/should handle already attached certs (which may be detached at any point in time in the future. Convert them now? If so, you'd need to detach the certs from the reservation, create an updated cert and re-attach this to the reservation. What about the expiration date of these certs? As you can see, this won't be easy and requires an IT solution.
Aug 5, 2018, 9:05 am
#4683
Join Date: May 2002
Programs: AAdvantage Platinum, United Silver, Marriott Titanium Elite
Posts: 2,276
I think some folks here are making this much too complicated.
Old Rewards category numbers and new program category numbers are entirely different scales. Old Rewards points and new program points are exactly the same currency in both programs. So here's what I expect:
— Today's 5-night e-certificates will still be 5-night e-certificates.
— Today's 7-night e-certificates will still be 7-night e-certificates.
— The per-night value, in points, will be the same as today.
— The new e-certificates will not use Category numbers.
— For example, a 7-night Category 7 Hotel (35,000-points-per-night) e-certificate will be a 7-night 35,000-points-per-night Hotel e-certificate.
— When a member calls Marriott to attach an e-certificate to a reservation, the Marriott rep will refund points to, or add points from, the member's account, whenever necessary.
— There will not be any involuntary point refunds, windfall value adjustments, confusing formulas, or other redefinitions of what an e-certificate is worth.
— Marriott will continue to provide one-year extensions to the expiration date.
We'll all know the real plan soon enough.
Old Rewards category numbers and new program category numbers are entirely different scales. Old Rewards points and new program points are exactly the same currency in both programs. So here's what I expect:
— Today's 5-night e-certificates will still be 5-night e-certificates.
— Today's 7-night e-certificates will still be 7-night e-certificates.
— The per-night value, in points, will be the same as today.
— The new e-certificates will not use Category numbers.
— For example, a 7-night Category 7 Hotel (35,000-points-per-night) e-certificate will be a 7-night 35,000-points-per-night Hotel e-certificate.
— When a member calls Marriott to attach an e-certificate to a reservation, the Marriott rep will refund points to, or add points from, the member's account, whenever necessary.
— There will not be any involuntary point refunds, windfall value adjustments, confusing formulas, or other redefinitions of what an e-certificate is worth.
— Marriott will continue to provide one-year extensions to the expiration date.
We'll all know the real plan soon enough.
Last edited by Horace; Aug 5, 2018 at 9:20 am
Aug 5, 2018, 9:08 am
#4684
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 746
I think that would be a great outcome; to me it depends on if they're willing to code a completely different category of certs that will be grandfathered but not issued again. My guess is that they won't be.
Aug 5, 2018, 9:28 am
#4685
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 546
Sure very few hotels are going up to Category 6 but the same logic applies. Also, Starwood Lurker is just that - Starwood NOT Marriott as such I believe he is referring to SPG members who earned free night awards with Amex such as myself where I have a free weekend night at category 1-4.
Aug 5, 2018, 9:40 am
#4687
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Toronto (YYZ)
Posts: 6,279
Again, the same logic would apply... if you have ANY certificate where the category for the hotel you'd like to redeem for is going up - attach it to the reservation so that you are maximizing value.
Aug 5, 2018, 10:37 am
#4688
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 315
This is exactly why this it's complicated. For Category 8/9 certs (40k/45k per night), they cannot be easily converted to points-per-night certs because the new award chart doesn't have 40/45k levels.
Aug 5, 2018, 10:44 am
#4689
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Toronto (YYZ)
Posts: 6,279
Would make more sense for legacy certificates for categories 8,9 and all Tiers would be converted to new category 7.
Aug 5, 2018, 10:54 am
#4690
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: GVA (Greater Vancouver Area)
Programs: DREAD Gold; UA 1.035MM; Bonvoy Au-197; PCC Elite+; CCC Elite+; MSC C-12; CWC Au-197; WoH Dis
Posts: 52,140
Aug 5, 2018, 11:00 am
#4691
Join Date: May 2002
Programs: AAdvantage Platinum, United Silver, Marriott Titanium Elite
Posts: 2,276
A 7-night Category 9 Hotel (45,000-points-per-night) e-certificate would be a 7-night 45,000-points-per-night e-certificate.
Yes, there are not hotels exactly at these levels beginning August 18.
Beginning August 18, if a member calls Marriott to attach such an e-certificate to a 7-night reservation, the rep would make the appropriate adjustment, whether that means refunding points or using additional points. This can happen today too. The functionality is already in the system.
Examples:
— 7-night, 45,000-points-per-night Hotel e-certificate for a 7-night, 50,000 points-per-night Hotel. 30,000 additional points (6 x 5,000, reflecting 5th night free) would come out of the account.
— 7-night, 45,000-points-per-night Hotel e-certificate for a 7-night, 35,000 points-per-night Hotel. 60,000 points (6 x 10,000, reflecting 5th night free) would be put back into the account.
— 7-night, 35,000-points-per-night Hotel e-certificate for a 7-night, 35,000 points-per-night Hotel. There would be no additional points, and no refund of points.
Ignore the Category numbers, old and new. Concentrate on the points, and it all works.
For some hotels, the new point levels will not be advantageous because there's a big increase coming — but that's a separate issue that also applies to members who just have point balances in their accounts, not unattached e-certificates. In such cases, if the stay is within 11 or 12 months and the points reservation can be made now, it's advisable to do so.
That's what I expect. Again, we'll all know the real plan soon enough.
Last edited by Horace; Aug 5, 2018 at 11:14 am
Aug 5, 2018, 11:23 am
#4692
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: IL
Posts: 270
A 7-night Category 8 Hotel (40,000-points-per-night) e-certificate would be a 7-night 40,000-points-per-night e-certificate.
A 7-night Category 9 Hotel (45,000-points-per-night) e-certificate would be a 7-night 45,000-points-per-night e-certificate.
Yes, there are not hotels exactly at these levels beginning August 18.
Beginning August 18, if a member calls Marriott to attach such an e-certificate to a 7-night reservation, the rep would make the appropriate adjustment, whether that means refunding points or using additional points. This can happen today too. The functionality is already in the system.
Examples:
— 7-night, 45,000-points-per-night Hotel e-certificate for a 7-night, 50,000 points-per-night Hotel. 30,000 additional points (6 x 5,000, reflecting 5th night free) would come out of the account.
— 7-night, 45,000-points-per-night Hotel e-certificate for a 7-night, 35,000 points-per-night Hotel. 60,000 points (6 x 10,000, reflecting 5th night free) would be put back into the account.
— 7-night, 35,000-points-per-night Hotel e-certificate for a 7-night, 35,000 points-per-night Hotel. There would be no additional points, and no refund of points.
Ignore the Category numbers, old and new. Concentrate on the points, and it all works. In some cases the new point levels will not be advantageous, but that's a separate issue that also applies to members who just have point balances in their accounts, not unattached e-certificates.
That's what I expect. Again, we'll all know the real plan soon enough.
A 7-night Category 9 Hotel (45,000-points-per-night) e-certificate would be a 7-night 45,000-points-per-night e-certificate.
Yes, there are not hotels exactly at these levels beginning August 18.
Beginning August 18, if a member calls Marriott to attach such an e-certificate to a 7-night reservation, the rep would make the appropriate adjustment, whether that means refunding points or using additional points. This can happen today too. The functionality is already in the system.
Examples:
— 7-night, 45,000-points-per-night Hotel e-certificate for a 7-night, 50,000 points-per-night Hotel. 30,000 additional points (6 x 5,000, reflecting 5th night free) would come out of the account.
— 7-night, 45,000-points-per-night Hotel e-certificate for a 7-night, 35,000 points-per-night Hotel. 60,000 points (6 x 10,000, reflecting 5th night free) would be put back into the account.
— 7-night, 35,000-points-per-night Hotel e-certificate for a 7-night, 35,000 points-per-night Hotel. There would be no additional points, and no refund of points.
Ignore the Category numbers, old and new. Concentrate on the points, and it all works. In some cases the new point levels will not be advantageous, but that's a separate issue that also applies to members who just have point balances in their accounts, not unattached e-certificates.
That's what I expect. Again, we'll all know the real plan soon enough.
As an example:
OC9: 74% went up 5k to NC6, so you have to pay 30k more points for 74% of the same hotels. 23% of the time OC9 went up 15k to NC6, meaning you have to pay 90k more for 23% of the same hotels.
If official advanced notice was given such that people could make informed decisions, as with many theories here, it might be ok, but that hasn't happened so this will not happen.
Aug 5, 2018, 11:31 am
#4693
Join Date: May 2002
Programs: AAdvantage Platinum, United Silver, Marriott Titanium Elite
Posts: 2,276
How many times must I repeat, math. I wish people would work all examples of their 'theory' with the cat statistics before throwing .... against the wall. Just because it 'works' for your situation doesn't mean it works for all, which is the scope Marriott has to deal with.
As an example:
OC9: 74% went up 5k to NC6, so you have to pay 30k more points for 74% of the same hotels. 23% of the time OC9 went up 15k to NC6, meaning you have to pay 90k more for 23% of the same hotels.
If official advanced notice was given such that people could make informed decisions, as with many theories here, it might be ok, but that hasn't happened so this will not happen.
As an example:
OC9: 74% went up 5k to NC6, so you have to pay 30k more points for 74% of the same hotels. 23% of the time OC9 went up 15k to NC6, meaning you have to pay 90k more for 23% of the same hotels.
If official advanced notice was given such that people could make informed decisions, as with many theories here, it might be ok, but that hasn't happened so this will not happen.
Rewards points will be points.
You could make the same argument about "math" for point balances in member accounts. Balances will be less valuable when booking places like Marriott London Park Lane too. But Marriott is not adjusting the point balances in accounts either.
I would love a big windfall. But I certainly don't expect that to happen. I also don't expect Marriott to cheat me. I expect my outstanding e-certificate to have the same point value before and after August 18, even though the redemption points will change at many hotels.
Last edited by Horace; Aug 5, 2018 at 11:38 am
Aug 5, 2018, 11:50 am
#4694
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: IL
Posts: 270
Keeping the point value of e-certifcates constant has nothing to do with hotels going up, down, or staying the same.
Rewards points will be points.
You could make the same argument about "math" for point balances in member accounts. Marriott is not adjusting the point balances in accounts either.
I would love a big windfall. But I certainly don't expect it. I also don't expect Marriott to cheat me. I expect my outstanding e-certificate to have the same point value before and after August 18, even the reductions levels change at many hotels.
Rewards points will be points.
You could make the same argument about "math" for point balances in member accounts. Marriott is not adjusting the point balances in accounts either.
I would love a big windfall. But I certainly don't expect it. I also don't expect Marriott to cheat me. I expect my outstanding e-certificate to have the same point value before and after August 18, even the reductions levels change at many hotels.
Cats were mentioned only because you purchased a Cat cert, and the hotels belonging to that Cat are used as the baseline for new reference cost, which again is based on the New Cat, thus the Cat is very pertinent to a points discussion. Ignore the Cats entirely and its all the same, 74% of the hotels you purchased your Cat9 cert for will cost 30k more, 23% will cost 90k more, without advanced notice. Clearly, this isn't an acceptable solution.
You didn't purchase a point value certificate, you purchased a category certificate representing a set of hotels along in addition to an airline mile transfer.
No rewards program has ever devalued existing points balances, only adjusted future earnings and redemption,
Keep digging.
Aug 5, 2018, 12:02 pm
#4695
Join Date: May 2002
Programs: AAdvantage Platinum, United Silver, Marriott Titanium Elite
Posts: 2,276
I have redeemed many Marriott Rewards travel packages over the years. They never came with guarantee that the set of hotels at the time of ordering the package would be unchanged when I eventually redeemed the hotel portion.