tth6133

This is one of most likely scenarios. However, there're still lots of complications. For example, for an existing unattached cat-9 cert, what would Marriott do? Convert it to a cert for 7 nights with up to 45K points per night? If you want to use it this year, there's no hotel in that category after August 1. Or does Marriott convert it to a cert for up to 35K per night and refund you 10K per night (which makes it equivalent to the current cat-7 cert)? Or does Marriott offer you an option to upgrade your cert? If so, would the upgrade be based on current chart or the new chart in August? Same issues with the cat-6 and cat-8 certificates. What if someone bought the cert even before s/he knew there would be changes in August? And many probably still don't know something will change in August that could affect their certs. There have been no communication to these cert holders about any changes (and most of them are not on FlyerTalk).

Starwood Lurker on the SPG forum has basically said there won't be any more announcement on some of the complicated issues such as this until the programs merge. Without any official clarification, we all have to make our decisions, hopefully based on rational analyses of benefits and risks of our choices.

cruisr

PumpkinSmasher

If this is what ends up happening, it ends up happening. And I don't expect Marriott to break their backs to be generous, but I think most just feel like the above scenario would represent a massive devaluation not normally seen and that they at least make it fair.

I think the fairest way to do it would be to offer up 7 individual 1 night certificates at the appropriate category hotels for each package. They could round down even I would think if it's close, although maybe they offer people the opportunity to pay a small difference in points to round up. This way, it offers the loyalty members more flexibility with using their certificate and for them to get the same value that they would have otherwise gotten. Shouldn't really cost the hotels anything more either, especially since Marriott won't have to deal with points and people using them for fewer nights at more expensive properties. And maybe they are a bit more restrictive moving forward with allowing further extensions beyond a year (in fact I think that's a likely outcome if they were to do this so they don't have these floating around beyond a year). And maybe if it's not booked before peak rates come into play that they can't be used for peak dates. This would all seem fair to me.

imverge

Marriott can use all the smoke and mirrors they want in changing the categories which is what they've always done each year.

I just expect that my 7-night certificate is going to get me 7-nights after Aug 1st.

Flying for Fun

No, it would be lying if he knew otherwise. He doesn't know! According to another contributor, she was advised that a Category 5 certificate would convert to a Category 5 in the New Program and a Category 7 would convert to a Category 7. She even asked twice for confirmation. The agents don't have those answers.

James

uibd

Actually, no. They have the original date in them unfortunately.

Happy

The agents have no clue. Better agents would tell you they do not know what would happen after program merger. New or incompetent agents that unfortunately Marriott seems to have many of them lately, dont have a clue. They just tell you what the existing rules are. But YOU should know better that the existing rules go out of the window come August 1st!
For the most obvious - the categories of today, DONT correspond to the categories after August 1st. Just by that token, you know what you have now can not attach to the category of the same "number" after Aug 1st...

I have posed a link for the thread in Marriott Insider, the poster detailed out the "Non Answers" from a staffer from "Mr. Marriott's Office". It is worth your time to read it so you know the agent who told you whatever, actually has no knowledge on what is going to happen. Either the agent just lied to you to get you off the call, or the agent genuinely did not have a clue. I would be more generous to say s/he had no clue.

OssianBlue

I think it is pretty ridiculous to suppose that on August 1 all of these existing 7 night certificates are going to turn into pumpkins and be worthless. There's absolutely nothing in the way this merger has been handled that would suggest that anything other than a more-or-less even conversion will occur. Certainly saying that Marriott could just cancel them out entirely or just give 45K points is nothing but fearmongering.

jrey

Can't wait to see what happens on Aug 1.

dreamertogo

TP still there, just new rule. I don't think Marriott has any reason to cancel old one (with points).

pentiumvi

While I would love to keep believing that Marriott won't screw us TP holders post merger, this quote from SPG Lurker is making me very uncertain:

"We are currently reviewing how to handle existing <snip> awards already in members' accounts and will have a definitive answer in the coming weeks. Members should make every effort to book and attach these certificates prior to our programs becoming one to to maximize their usage."

The fact that he's suggesting that these certificates be attached to a reservation prior to the merger in order to maximize their usage leads me to believe that the 45k point refund is quite a likely scenario.

That being said, 75k SPG for up to 132k airline miles is still not a bad deal for those who have a use for the airline miles.

Counsellor

I would like to see that happen, because with seven one-night certificates you could create your own "sampler" package, and redeem individual certificates at different properties. For instance, you could spend 2 nights in Prague, 2 in Vienna, and 3 in Budapest as I did in 2009. That was great!

Yep, I'd like to see that happen, and would be very grateful if it does, but I won't hold my breath.

Counsellor

Not to pick on James, since I've seen that idea ("Marriott can change the rules anytime they want at their sole discretion - they aren't obligated to give you anything") posted a number of times during these discussions, both in this thread and elsewhere, but I'm not so sure that's actually correct.

The theory seems based on two grounds, first, that they supposedly reserved that right in the terms and conditions of the program, and second, that airline frequent flyer programs say something similar in their programs and seem to have gotten away with it.

Let's deal with the second argument first -- that the airlines seem to have prevailed in court when they make changes to their program that adversely affect the members. Yes, they do (but so far as I know they've never tried to void an award ticket by changing the rules after it was issued); however, airlines are protected from the application of state Consumer Protection laws and regulations by a Federal law known as the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978. It is that protection that reserved consumer protection oversight over airlines with respect to ticketing, fares, routes, and the like to the Federal government, and preempted the states from such regulation.

So far as I know, there is no equivalent Federal exemption for the hotel industry, and if there isn't they would seem to be fully subject to state Consumer Protection regulation and oversight.

Now, let's look at the legal efficacy of the T&C of a frequent guest program that purports to allow the hotel to change the rules at any time. That is a particularly one-sided contract; you (and other consumers) had no part in negotiating it and it is a "take it or leave it" "one size fits all" package created unilaterally by the merchant. Because such T&C were not the creature of a negotiation process, the contact is known in law as a "contract of adhesion". Contracts of adhesion are not per se illegal, but because they can be so one-sided they are treated with higher scrutiny by Consumer Protection laws and regulations than are contracts that are bargained at arms-length by negotiation between the parties. The Consumer Protection folks intend to make sure that the T&C are not applied in a way that is unfair to the consumer. What is fair or unfair is, of course, dependent on the circumstances and no firm rule can generally be applied, but I would think that once the certificate is "paid for" and issued Consumer Protection agencies might well take the position that you can't change the "deliverable" applicable to those certificates to the detriment of the consumer who "purchased" the certificate irrespective of any boilerplate provision in the T&C. (Disclaimer: This is not meant as legal advice.)

So, anyway, I'm thinking that Marriott, being a consumer-friendly company anyway, does not intend to adversely change the essential deliverable on certificates already issued. But if they do, I'm sure their lawyers have considered the impact of trying to justify that to the numerous state Consumer Protection agencies having jurisdiction over their hotels.

pinniped

The problem with the state regulation argument is that hotels do all sorts of things far dirtier, more deceptive, and outright wrong things all the time and states never do anything. The very fact that mandatory resort fees exist at all is evidence of this. Add on all sorts of other forms of price gouging, "walking" with no solution for the guest, minimum-stay rules designed to circumvent when a price gouging law actually *does* exist, randomly canceling reservations with no recourse for the guest, and on and on and on. Now the resort fee scourge is extending into all sorts of places where it hasn't been seen before - including regular city hotels.

So for now, I'm going to assume that the hotel industry has purchased and controls more politicians than I have, and I'm not counting on states attorneys general to get involved in our Travel Package certificates. That said, Marriott's self interest is the simplest and fairest treatment of the certificates, so I'm not terribly worried about it right now.

azepine00

My guess is current cert category will remain valid for new categories. Prob no upcategorying option.
This is the only "clean" way to transition - anything else would be a customer service mess..