Marriott Travel Packages

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Old Sep 2, 18, 1:10 am   -   Wikipost
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Legacy to New Travel Package Conversion (effective August 2019)
A Marriott supervisor can currently convert your legacy travel package into the new category mapping. If you hold a Category 6, 8, or Tier 1-3 legacy certificate, it's ideal to downgrade your certificate before converting so that points don't potentially get lost in the process.

The codes for the new partial packages are:
New Cat 1-4: QP83
New Cat 5: QP91
New Cat 6: QP99
New Cat 7:

Originally Posted by Marriott Rewards Insider
Members who purchased a Category 6, Category 8 or Tier 1-3 certificate prior to 8/18 are able to request a one-time exchange for a Travel Package one category lower. This process will cancel your current Travel Package, reissue a Travel Package one category lower and result in a refund of 30,000 points to your account. To submit a request, follow these steps:
  • Select “Packages - Deals” from the “Topic” drop down menu
  • Submit your request
As a reminder, status.marriott.com will periodically have additional updates.
Source: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marr...es-update.html

The legacy certificates map to the new certificates as such:
Cat 1-5 => Cat 1-4
Cat 6 => Cat 1-4
Cat 7 => Cat 5
Cat 8 => Cat 5
Cat 9 => Cat 6
Tier 1-3 => Cat 6
Tier 4-5 => Cat 7
==================================================

If you are unsure where you will use your 7 night stay, when you request the package, just ask for a category 1-5 hotel. That way you are out of the least number of points. If later, you decide to book for a higher level category, then you can do so and pay the difference the travel package points. If you can't use your certificate within the year, then as close to the one year anniversary (without going over!) call to extend the certificate for one more year. That's as long as they will typically allow, one extension. There is an option to expedite the mileage delivery to within three business days (sometimes faster) for $15. There are reports that this fee may be waived for platinum members.

Effective April 1 2017 re: Southwest & the companion pass:

"Purchased points, points converted from hotel and car loyalty programs, and e-Rewards, e-Miles, Valued Opinions and Diners Club, points earned from Rapid Rewards program enrollment, tier bonuses, flight bonuses, and partner bonuses (excluding points bonuses earned on the Rapid Rewards Credit Cards from Chase) do not count toward Companion Pass."
************
Can I book SPG properties with my Marriott Travel Package? As of 9/1/2018 apparently not. see https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/30155836-post6529.html
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Old Jul 16, 18, 11:12 am
  #3871  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 382
Originally Posted by hhoope01 View Post
I'm wondering if there are two different scenarios being discussed.

First, when the "merge" occurs, I'm guessing existing TP hotel certs will be converted to a new style, "max points-based" cert. For example, if someone has a Cat. 6, 7-night hotel cert, that cert will become a "max 30K per night" 7 night award or something similar to that. Second, if someone today wants to return the TP hotel cert for points, they will NOT get the points matching a 7 night Cat 6 hotel (i.e. 180K points.). From the discussion it looks like someone would get 75K points. Again, my guess is if someone after the "merge" wants to return their new "max 30K per night" 7 night award, they will probably only get 75K points deposited into their account. IOW, just like today, they can use the cert for up to 7 nights at a certain cat level of hotel or they can return the cert for a reduced points value.

But I would doubt that at the "merge" Marriott will liquidate all existing unlinked TP certs into that reduced points value and deposit the points into your account. If you want that today (or after the "merge") you have to ask for it.

Now when this happens, will Marriott extend the life of those TP certs out for a year (since it will essentially be a new cert) or will they transfer the existing end-date to the new certs? I can't answer that question, though I might guess the answer depends on how easy it is for their systems to grab that old expiration date and transfer it to the new cert. If it is very simple and easy, the new certs may well keep the old expirations. If it is a pain to deal with that, Marriott will probably just extend the expiration dates out.
This is one of most likely scenarios. However, there're still lots of complications. For example, for an existing unattached cat-9 cert, what would Marriott do? Convert it to a cert for 7 nights with up to 45K points per night? If you want to use it this year, there's no hotel in that category after August 1. Or does Marriott convert it to a cert for up to 35K per night and refund you 10K per night (which makes it equivalent to the current cat-7 cert)? Or does Marriott offer you an option to upgrade your cert? If so, would the upgrade be based on current chart or the new chart in August? Same issues with the cat-6 and cat-8 certificates. What if someone bought the cert even before s/he knew there would be changes in August? And many probably still don't know something will change in August that could affect their certs. There have been no communication to these cert holders about any changes (and most of them are not on FlyerTalk).

Starwood Lurker on the SPG forum has basically said there won't be any more announcement on some of the complicated issues such as this until the programs merge. Without any official clarification, we all have to make our decisions, hopefully based on rational analyses of benefits and risks of our choices.

Last edited by tth6133; Jul 16, 18 at 11:23 am
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Old Jul 16, 18, 11:32 am
  #3872  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: At an airport-on a cruise ship
Programs: UA-1K, MM, Hilton-Diamond, Marriott-Platinum, SPG-Platinum Thnks to FT
Posts: 4,178
Indeed, i think a lot of MR members with current certificates may not be paying as much attention to the Aug 1 deadline as people here are. I wonder what % of total MR members are represented here. It would be a consumer nightmare and a publicity nightmare if Marriott simply eliminated all tne unattached certificates and gave back 45k points in the case of the 1-5 category.

i have two 1-5 cats that i fully expect to use on dates that are currently not open for booking, The hotel in question is going down to a cat 4 so i am covered. If the hotel is not yet available to book i cannot attach them and i cannot seee Marriott penalizing me for that.

I am just waiting for August 1 ro see whats happening. They know what they are going to do. They are just not letting anybody else know! No way would a multi billion multi national company not know what they are planning to do with a major program 2 weeks before launch date.
cruisr is offline  
Old Jul 16, 18, 11:57 am
  #3873  
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 265
Originally Posted by Flying for Fun View Post
A 7 night certificate = 45K (7.5K * 6)
A 5 night certificate = 30K (7.5K * 4)

Fifth Night Free

That is what your certificates are worth in MR points in the current MR Program. Not 150K/100K

I think the difficulty for a lot of people is that they are confusing the value of the certificate in MR points and the potential redemptive value of the certificate when it is attached in dollars in the current MR program.

They are also failing to realize that the current MR Program will be wrapped up in a couple of weeks and after August 1st MR as you know it will be defunct. As such, it is within Marriotts rights to just quash the floater certificates and move forward. I think it is unlikely they will do that, instead returning the 45K points value of the certificate to the members account in the New Program making the member "whole."

You can still use the 45K for a week long stay in the New Program in a Category 1 property just as you can now. In the current MR, the added redemptive value of being able to redeem for a property up to and including category 5 will be lost. That is your devaluation.

All the talk about "indefensible," civil acton, small claims and class action lawsuits is just nonsence. On what grounds would you sue? "Marriott devalued their loyalty program and my points aren't as valuable as they used to be when I try to redeem them!"

Everyone needs to step back and look at this objectively and keep the emotions out. The certificare itself is NOT worth 150K MR points! It may have a redemptive value of up to 150K in MR now but that program and the opportunity to make such a redemption goes away in a few weeks.

If anyone truely believes they are entitled to 150K unrestricted points in the New Program they are not being realistic. If you have 2 floaters and expect to take a 300K windfall and book 6 nights in the Maldives, you are dreaming! It is time to wake up!

Just like in any casino, the odds are in favour of the house. Now, consider the house can change the rules, with or without notice at anytime in it's sole discretion. Still like those odds?

If you get the residual 45K MR points value of the certificate returned to you, that is a bonus. Marriott is not obligated to give you anything.

James
If this is what ends up happening, it ends up happening. And I don't expect Marriott to break their backs to be generous, but I think most just feel like the above scenario would represent a massive devaluation not normally seen and that they at least make it fair.

I think the fairest way to do it would be to offer up 7 individual 1 night certificates at the appropriate category hotels for each package. They could round down even I would think if it's close, although maybe they offer people the opportunity to pay a small difference in points to round up. This way, it offers the loyalty members more flexibility with using their certificate and for them to get the same value that they would have otherwise gotten. Shouldn't really cost the hotels anything more either, especially since Marriott won't have to deal with points and people using them for fewer nights at more expensive properties. And maybe they are a bit more restrictive moving forward with allowing further extensions beyond a year (in fact I think that's a likely outcome if they were to do this so they don't have these floating around beyond a year). And maybe if it's not booked before peak rates come into play that they can't be used for peak dates. This would all seem fair to me.
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Old Jul 16, 18, 12:00 pm
  #3874  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Toronto (YYZ)
Posts: 6,109
Marriott can use all the smoke and mirrors they want in changing the categories which is what they've always done each year.

I just expect that my 7-night certificate is going to get me 7-nights after Aug 1st.
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Old Jul 16, 18, 7:10 pm
  #3875  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: British Columbia
Programs: AA, AS Gold 75K, BA, QF, SQ, Marriott Platinum Premiere
Posts: 2,089
Originally Posted by OssianBlue View Post
You mean, when I bought the certificate the guy who told me I could attach it as needed any time in the next year was lying to me? Unlikely.
No, it would be lying if he knew otherwise. He doesn't know! According to another contributor, she was advised that a Category 5 certificate would convert to a Category 5 in the New Program and a Category 7 would convert to a Category 7. She even asked twice for confirmation. The agents don't have those answers.

James
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Old Jul 16, 18, 7:13 pm
  #3876  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: MLI
Programs: UA 1K, MR Plat Prem, HH Gold, Avis Chairman's Club, Priority Club Plat
Posts: 229
Originally Posted by Willbur View Post
I assume they show expiration dates of a year from now?
Actually, no. They have the original date in them unfortunately.
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Old Jul 16, 18, 7:25 pm
  #3877  
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Join Date: Jul 2003
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Posts: 26,872
Originally Posted by OssianBlue View Post
You mean, when I bought the certificate the guy who told me I could attach it as needed any time in the next year was lying to me? Unlikely.
The agents have no clue. Better agents would tell you they do not know what would happen after program merger. New or incompetent agents that unfortunately Marriott seems to have many of them lately, dont have a clue. They just tell you what the existing rules are. But YOU should know better that the existing rules go out of the window come August 1st!
For the most obvious - the categories of today, DONT correspond to the categories after August 1st. Just by that token, you know what you have now can not attach to the category of the same "number" after Aug 1st...

I have posed a link for the thread in Marriott Insider, the poster detailed out the "Non Answers" from a staffer from "Mr. Marriott's Office". It is worth your time to read it so you know the agent who told you whatever, actually has no knowledge on what is going to happen. Either the agent just lied to you to get you off the call, or the agent genuinely did not have a clue. I would be more generous to say s/he had no clue.
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Old Jul 16, 18, 10:03 pm
  #3878  
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 266
I think it is pretty ridiculous to suppose that on August 1 all of these existing 7 night certificates are going to turn into pumpkins and be worthless. There's absolutely nothing in the way this merger has been handled that would suggest that anything other than a more-or-less even conversion will occur. Certainly saying that Marriott could just cancel them out entirely or just give 45K points is nothing but fearmongering.
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Old Jul 16, 18, 10:07 pm
  #3879  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 375
Can't wait to see what happens on Aug 1.
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Old Jul 16, 18, 10:53 pm
  #3880  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5
TP still there, just new rule. I don't think Marriott has any reason to cancel old one (with points).
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Old Jul 17, 18, 12:38 am
  #3881  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 503
While I would love to keep believing that Marriott won't screw us TP holders post merger, this quote from SPG Lurker is making me very uncertain:

"We are currently reviewing how to handle existing <snip> awards already in members' accounts and will have a definitive answer in the coming weeks. Members should make every effort to book and attach these certificates prior to our programs becoming one to to maximize their usage."

The fact that he's suggesting that these certificates be attached to a reservation prior to the merger in order to maximize their usage leads me to believe that the 45k point refund is quite a likely scenario.

That being said, 75k SPG for up to 132k airline miles is still not a bad deal for those who have a use for the airline miles.
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Old Jul 17, 18, 3:25 am
  #3882  
 
Join Date: May 1998
Posts: 6,410
Originally Posted by PumpkinSmasher View Post
I think the fairest way to do it would be to offer up 7 individual 1 night certificates at the appropriate category hotels for each package. They could round down even I would think if it's close, although maybe they offer people the opportunity to pay a small difference in points to round up. This way, it offers the loyalty members more flexibility with using their certificate and for them to get the same value that they would have otherwise gotten.
I would like to see that happen, because with seven one-night certificates you could create your own "sampler" package, and redeem individual certificates at different properties. For instance, you could spend 2 nights in Prague, 2 in Vienna, and 3 in Budapest as I did in 2009. That was great!

Yep, I'd like to see that happen, and would be very grateful if it does, but I won't hold my breath.
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Old Jul 17, 18, 4:27 am
  #3883  
 
Join Date: May 1998
Posts: 6,410
Originally Posted by Flying for Fun View Post
Just like in any casino, the odds are in favour of the house. Now, consider the house can change the rules, with or without notice at anytime in it's sole discretion. Still like those odds?

If you get the residual 45K MR points value of the certificate returned to you, that is a bonus. Marriott is not obligated to give you anything.

James
Not to pick on James, since I've seen that idea ("Marriott can change the rules anytime they want at their sole discretion - they aren't obligated to give you anything") posted a number of times during these discussions, both in this thread and elsewhere, but I'm not so sure that's actually correct.

The theory seems based on two grounds, first, that they supposedly reserved that right in the terms and conditions of the program, and second, that airline frequent flyer programs say something similar in their programs and seem to have gotten away with it.

Let's deal with the second argument first -- that the airlines seem to have prevailed in court when they make changes to their program that adversely affect the members. Yes, they do (but so far as I know they've never tried to void an award ticket by changing the rules after it was issued); however, airlines are protected from the application of state Consumer Protection laws and regulations by a Federal law known as the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978. It is that protection that reserved consumer protection oversight over airlines with respect to ticketing, fares, routes, and the like to the Federal government, and preempted the states from such regulation.

So far as I know, there is no equivalent Federal exemption for the hotel industry, and if there isn't they would seem to be fully subject to state Consumer Protection regulation and oversight.

Now, let's look at the legal efficacy of the T&C of a frequent guest program that purports to allow the hotel to change the rules at any time. That is a particularly one-sided contract; you (and other consumers) had no part in negotiating it and it is a "take it or leave it" "one size fits all" package created unilaterally by the merchant. Because such T&C were not the creature of a negotiation process, the contact is known in law as a "contract of adhesion". Contracts of adhesion are not per se illegal, but because they can be so one-sided they are treated with higher scrutiny by Consumer Protection laws and regulations than are contracts that are bargained at arms-length by negotiation between the parties. The Consumer Protection folks intend to make sure that the T&C are not applied in a way that is unfair to the consumer. What is fair or unfair is, of course, dependent on the circumstances and no firm rule can generally be applied, but I would think that once the certificate is "paid for" and issued Consumer Protection agencies might well take the position that you can't change the "deliverable" applicable to those certificates to the detriment of the consumer who "purchased" the certificate irrespective of any boilerplate provision in the T&C. (Disclaimer: This is not meant as legal advice.)

So, anyway, I'm thinking that Marriott, being a consumer-friendly company anyway, does not intend to adversely change the essential deliverable on certificates already issued. But if they do, I'm sure their lawyers have considered the impact of trying to justify that to the numerous state Consumer Protection agencies having jurisdiction over their hotels.
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Old Jul 17, 18, 9:30 am
  #3884  
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Join Date: Jul 2002
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Posts: 45,926
The problem with the state regulation argument is that hotels do all sorts of things far dirtier, more deceptive, and outright wrong things all the time and states never do anything. The very fact that mandatory resort fees exist at all is evidence of this. Add on all sorts of other forms of price gouging, "walking" with no solution for the guest, minimum-stay rules designed to circumvent when a price gouging law actually *does* exist, randomly canceling reservations with no recourse for the guest, and on and on and on. Now the resort fee scourge is extending into all sorts of places where it hasn't been seen before - including regular city hotels.

So for now, I'm going to assume that the hotel industry has purchased and controls more politicians than I have, and I'm not counting on states attorneys general to get involved in our Travel Package certificates. That said, Marriott's self interest is the simplest and fairest treatment of the certificates, so I'm not terribly worried about it right now.
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Old Jul 17, 18, 11:30 am
  #3885  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: LAX
Posts: 9,007
My guess is current cert category will remain valid for new categories. Prob no upcategorying option.
This is the only "clean" way to transition - anything else would be a customer service mess..
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