phltraveler

Points are not a part of annual qualification in the existing Marriott Rewards Program or the new one. In the new program, spend qualification is for the ambassador level only.

The Rewarding Events language for points earning to which you refer is from the pre-merged program where none of the Marriott status tiers published had any spend requirement whatsoever. It also just says that spend on meetings and related services is eligible for points, not that it is "eligible spend" for the $20,000 USD mentioned on members.marriott.com. That has not been defined in any way yet.

There is no precedent on a minimum earn/spend being required for yearly qualification in MR, either in points earned or dollars spent. There is simply no way to tell what will be considered eligible spend until Marriott releases the terms and conditions of the new program explicitly defining what it is. It might include meetings, it might not.

Here's an example: United. Some people have their employers buy Bulk/Discount Business/First. United has a PQD (Premier Qualifying Dollar) requirement per elite level, the base cost of the ticket excluding taxes/mandatory fees. Bulk or discount tickets earned reduced or bonus award miles based on the elite tier, the fare class, and the distance flown (instead of most tickets, where it was based on dollars spent 2015 onwards), anywhere from 50-150% depending on fare class. However, Bulk/consolidator tickets earn zero premier qualifying dollars to hit the $3K/$6K/$9K/$12K PQD levels of the different elite tiers.

The end result is someone could acquire/fly hundreds of thousands of miles a year, go on 100 or more flights in international business/first a year, and for some, because all of those flights were on bulk tickets - earn zero Premier Qualifying dollars and not even qualify for the lowest elite status because they didn't hit $3,000 in eligible spend. Again - these bulk tickets still earned miles! Even though they didn't count towards the spend requirement. This FT member spent $25,000+ on bulk tickets a year and had zero PQD because of this. And before 2015, with the introduction of the spend requirements, they would be the highest elite tier with published qualification criteria (United 1K)

I believe it's possible that meeting spend may count towards the ambassador spend requirement. Trying to state that meetings earn points and therefore it's automatically "eligible spend" for Ambassador status is just an assumption at this point. Until what eligible spend means is clarified by Marriott, it's just a guess.

lexdevil

You are correct. I was being dumb and lumping in the 10 nights part of the Rewarding Events program.

lexdevil

Of course. I simply offered it to demonstrate that event planners currently get some (though different) credit for spend that they did not personally pay for. In fact, I can get my 3 points per dollar spent on rooms in my block while folks who book into my block also get their usual MR points for what they spend on their room and incidentals. And if I book any rooms in my block I also get regular points on that spend IN ADDITION TO my event planner points. Clearly Marriott values this spend, as they have found a way to reward it.

True. I'm trying to get an idea of what to expect in advance. I think it will be easier to get Marriott to deal with these issues proactively than to get them to change the policy once it is implemented.

I also did get some indication of what might be coming when the Ambassador told me I currently have $8K in spend when I know that I have spent $23K. She told me that it looks like, at the moment, the spend tracking only includes three rooms. My guess is that this means that they are doing what some guessed and just using base points as a proxy for spend.

Knowing this now is useful because it gives me (and others) a chance to reach out to Marriott and ask about the spend they are not including. Perhaps asking these questions now will lead to a better result when the final policy is announced (as happened with the SPG folks who lobbied for access to the LTPP status).

lexdevil

Folks asked that I separate off this issue from my thread on what spend will count and how it will be tracked. Here are a few quotes from the other thread to get the ball rolling.

lexdevil

I don't think giving someone who books a wedding an Ambassador for a year is a great risk. They'll still need to earn 100 nights, so they are pretty committed MR guests. They should be encouraged to bring their spend to/book their wedding with Marriott.

It's also only a single year. If they ever want to get Ambassador status again, they'll need to keep booking expensive events or do something else to up their spend. This is exactly what I assume Marriott wants to encourage.

MSPeconomist

One wedding might be enough if the person gets (partial) night credit for rooms in the block (whether or not the person pays for these rooms).

The point is that if event spending counts for Ambassador status, it often would require only one event.

Meanwhile, over on the SPG forum, the consensus seems to be that, based on current guesses about how spend is counted in the new program, many of those currently having SPG Ambassadors would not satisfy the $20,000 requirement. Of course, those on FT might not be a representative sample of SPG elites with Ambassadors.

lexdevil

At least up until now event planners have only received 10 nights credit per event. So it's going to take one wedding plus 90 additional nights. Now 15 of those may come from the credit card, but there is still another 75 nights to accrue before receiving Ambassador status. If they have the old Chase card and put their $20K plus a touch more on it, that gets them 7 additional nights (at 1 night per $3K in spend on the card). I am assuming that they are smart and use this card for nothing but Marriott spend. Even that leaves them needing to come of with another 68 qualifying nights before they get an Ambassador.

As I said, I don't think this is a big risk for Marriott.

Hipplewm

That would suck HORRIBLY for those of us who spend 200 nights a year at RI (5pts per dollar)

lexdevil

I've got to assume they would adjust how they convert base points to $ in the case of RI and TPS.

kennycrudup

Hrmph. FT's very existence is due to the overwhelming numbers of its members earning (and carrying on about) status earned via OPM (which makes all this bickering about "what [I'm] losing" fairly irritating to me).

C17PSGR

I thought RI and TPS are going to 10 points per dollar ...

I agree it would be helpful to understand what counts. For example, i am at a Marriott property in Mexico this week. It's slow and they are offering lots of discounts that make prices on the property more attractive to local restaurants than normally. I always assumed those expenses would count since they always earned points but there seems to be concern on the SPG side that they won't count because they apparently didn't earn points at SPG resorts.

As a practical matter, I assume the 20,000 for non-events will be the same as points earning. Seems like it would be hard to segregate out the speeding in a tracking system. So, I suspect my bar bill will go into the count, and I also suspect that the two rooms I paid for last week will also count.

Don't have a clue on the other thread topic -- and thanks for splitting!

lexdevil

I agree. Especially as lots of the changes appear to be about aligning and simplifying policies across brands. The purpose of a spend requirement is to encourage spending. Given that, I assume that all of the types of spending they want to encourage will count.

I just wish I knew whether I will get credit for spend on rooms 4-9 (as there is no group contract in these cases).

MSPeconomist

NO to 10 points per dollar for RI and TPS. In fact, element hotels are being added to the list of places where one only earns points at half of the standard rate.

DJ_Iceman

First, thank you lexdevil for separating this topic so we can discuss it specifically.

I stand by my opinion that Ambassador service is intended to help individual travelers. If one is booking a group of rooms at a single property, presumably there is an event planner or group concierge who is dedicated to ensuring their event comes off successfully. As such, if I was king for a day and chose to use that time deciding how Marriott should recognize spending toward the $20k requirement, I would only credit a single night per member and their spending on that single room. If there's another hotel chain (Hilton, Hyatt, etc.) that is more generous, I'd be interested to hear about it.

lexdevil

I believe that Marriott's purpose in providing Ambassador service has more to do with encouraging spending with Marriott than providing a service for anyone. Hotels don't have frequent guest programs to benefit us. They have them to benefit the company by driving business to it.

So you think that the sales office should provide me with special attention on the three occasions that I book events, and that I should not get any additional support with the vast majority of nights I spend at Marriott properties, despite the fact that I drive $40K+ in spend to Marriott every year, not including any credit for the few events that I book? I spend a great deal more outside of group contracts than in.

It doesn't matter if any other chain is more generous. What matters is that once I pass Plat 75, if I have no chance of getting to Ambassador (because they are only counting around 1/3 of my spend, not including events) I have no reason not to stay elsewhere. Every year there are times when I am tempted to stay at a Hyatt, Hilton, or IHG property because it is more convenient or better value. I have not given in to the temptation because of some stupid desire to maintain PP status (even though it has no real benefit beyond Plat). If I know that there is nothing at stake, I may try the competition every now and then.