Aug 21, 2019, 12:38 pm
Last edit by: Klemhuzzah
Signing up to buy $1000 visa/mc gift cards
You can buy the $1000 cards on Simon's volume site. Their regular site only sells $500 cards.
If you're new, or haven't bought anything in a year, you need to register at https://www.simon.com/volume/register-consumer
As part of the registration process, you will have to go to a brick and mortar mall and buy at least $3000 in cards in person, as well as filling out some paperwork while there. After that, you can do everything online.
As of Nov 2020, Simon Mall Gift cards will only work for $99/swipe for money services at Walmart and many grocery chains.
$1000 gift cards are available indefinitely.
2020 Promotions
Ongoing: FREEGROUND - Free Ground Shipping on any order size. Limited to 5 orders per customer. Expires December 31, 2020 (subject to change).
5/15-6/17: MDHOL20 - 20% off Visa Giftcard Purchase Fees + Free Ground Shipping on orders of 9 more cards
5/15/5/31: MAYGROUND - Free UPS Ground shipping on orders of 7 or more cards
5/15-6/31: MAY20VG10 - 10% off purchase fees on Visa Giftcards
6/29-7/20: JUL4HOL20 - 20% off Visa Giftcard Purchase Fees + Free Ground Shipping on orders of 5 or more cards. If you select a shipping other than Ground - the code will still take 20% off the purchase fees. Limited to 10 orders per customer.
8/11-8/31: AUG20PR - 15% off ALL fees (excl. shipping fees) on orders of 5 or more cards. Limited to 10 orders per customer (Originally expired on 8/23; on 8/24 promo was extended through 8/31)
10/12-10/14: FSOCT20 - 30% off all purchase fees on Visas and Mastercards.
10/26-10/31 - FS20SCARY - 35% off all purchase fees
11/1-11/30 - HOL20MC25 - 25% off all purchase fees on MasterCard / HOL20VG25 - 25% off all purchase fees on Visa / HOL20AG50 50% off all purchase fees on American Express
11/6-11/8 - FS20THANKS - 35% off all purchase fees
11/16-11/18 - FS20SAVINGS - 35% off all purchase fees
You can buy the $1000 cards on Simon's volume site. Their regular site only sells $500 cards.
If you're new, or haven't bought anything in a year, you need to register at https://www.simon.com/volume/register-consumer
As part of the registration process, you will have to go to a brick and mortar mall and buy at least $3000 in cards in person, as well as filling out some paperwork while there. After that, you can do everything online.
As of Nov 2020, Simon Mall Gift cards will only work for $99/swipe for money services at Walmart and many grocery chains.
$1000 gift cards are available indefinitely.
2020 Promotions
Ongoing: FREEGROUND - Free Ground Shipping on any order size. Limited to 5 orders per customer. Expires December 31, 2020 (subject to change).
5/15-6/17: MDHOL20 - 20% off Visa Giftcard Purchase Fees + Free Ground Shipping on orders of 9 more cards
5/15/5/31: MAYGROUND - Free UPS Ground shipping on orders of 7 or more cards
5/15-6/31: MAY20VG10 - 10% off purchase fees on Visa Giftcards
6/29-7/20: JUL4HOL20 - 20% off Visa Giftcard Purchase Fees + Free Ground Shipping on orders of 5 or more cards. If you select a shipping other than Ground - the code will still take 20% off the purchase fees. Limited to 10 orders per customer.
8/11-8/31: AUG20PR - 15% off ALL fees (excl. shipping fees) on orders of 5 or more cards. Limited to 10 orders per customer (Originally expired on 8/23; on 8/24 promo was extended through 8/31)
10/12-10/14: FSOCT20 - 30% off all purchase fees on Visas and Mastercards.
10/26-10/31 - FS20SCARY - 35% off all purchase fees
11/1-11/30 - HOL20MC25 - 25% off all purchase fees on MasterCard / HOL20VG25 - 25% off all purchase fees on Visa / HOL20AG50 50% off all purchase fees on American Express
11/6-11/8 - FS20THANKS - 35% off all purchase fees
11/16-11/18 - FS20SAVINGS - 35% off all purchase fees
Simon Mall Gift Cards (2019-2023)
Nov 17, 2020, 11:52 am
#1741
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 170
This is getting silly. The Simon Property Group is a giant corporation which does about $5 billion dollars in sales each year. The notion that it is cooking its books with gift card sales somehow or its stock value depends on profits from gift cards is nonsensical. Gift card sales are a teeny tiny percentage of Simon's business. .
The Simon Visa Giftcard it the largest Visa program in the world, Stockdale said. Simon Property Group, based in Indianapolis, IN, offers its gift cards in whole dollar amounts ranging from $20 to $500. The cards were introduced nationwide in 2003 after testing in five Simon Malls since August 2001. In 2004, 6.3 million cards were sold at a value of more than $400 million. Through September 2006, sales on the card are 20% ahead of last year at this time and are expected to exceed $500 million by yearend, Stockdale said.
And when you consider what the pandemic has done to their retail lease revenues. GC sales to MS'ers are probably making the books look a little bit better than they are. I'm not saying that Simon is worthless without GC sales, or that they'd fold without GC sales. But something like this can help us to understand why Simon is happy to develop an identity verification process to make sure they can safely enable MS'ers or why Simon started issuing 1K giftcards and why their purchase fee is the lowest on the market.
Last edited by CerealCardSpender; Nov 17, 2020 at 12:06 pm
Nov 17, 2020, 12:16 pm
#1742
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 44
500 million USD in 2006 is an inflation corrected 645 million USD in 2020. If Simon Mall does 5 billion in sales in 2020, then the SIMON Visa giftcard program brings in 13% of Simons revenue assuming 2006 sales numbers...2006 is BEFORE Manufactured spending took off. Remember, some of you whales were doing Millions of dollars a year in MS. It would only take 10 whales doing 1 million a year to generate 10 million in sales. Simon's current giftcard revenues from MS alone could easily be adding a number between 1-3% on the books.
And when you consider what the Pandemic has done to their retail lease revenues, GC sales to MS'ers are probably making the books look better than they are. I'm not saying that Simon is worthless without GC sales, or that they'd fold without GC sales, but it does seem like MS GC sales makes the books like nicer than they would otherwise be without. And can help to understand why Simon is happy to develop an identity verification process to make sure they can safely enable MS'ers.
And when you consider what the Pandemic has done to their retail lease revenues, GC sales to MS'ers are probably making the books look better than they are. I'm not saying that Simon is worthless without GC sales, or that they'd fold without GC sales, but it does seem like MS GC sales makes the books like nicer than they would otherwise be without. And can help to understand why Simon is happy to develop an identity verification process to make sure they can safely enable MS'ers.
Perhaps their financials only include as revenue the service fee (or net revenue from the sales) and not the gross price of the gift card? If so, even hundreds of millions of GC gross sales would barely make a dent in their financials.
Nov 17, 2020, 12:23 pm
#1743
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 239
If gift card sales are that critical to Simon (and they dropped off a cliff due to a large portion of MS's who could no longer liquidate), then I no doubt would think they'll do something to retain those customers. That very well may mean they seriously consider money order capabilities in facility after all this time. We all joke that it would make the process so extremely easy, but with the common liquidation methods gone, they may finally determine it's worth whatever negatives come with offering money order capabilities.
Again, it's really only the case if they view GC sales as being THAT important to their bottom line.
Again, it's really only the case if they view GC sales as being THAT important to their bottom line.
Nov 17, 2020, 12:28 pm
#1744
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 317
You can find the Simon Property Group annual reports here:
https://investors.simon.com/financia...annual-reports
Simon did more than a billion dollars in gift card sales in 2019.
I'm not an accountant, but I'd guess that it's the fees on the gift cards that it sells that is part of its $5 billion dollar revenue. The amount loaded on the cards is not revenue, or if it is it's offset by an equal liability for the same amount.
Look here:
Gift Cards and Financial Reporting
Different stores handle the revenue from gift cards differently. "Wal-Mart states in its 2006 10-K that it recognizes revenue on gift cards only when “the customer purchases merchandise by using the shopping card.” So for Wal-Mart, at least, no matter how much it loads onto its gift cards, it's not revenue until it's used to purchase stuff.
In MS, the Visa/MC cards aren't used to purchase stuff--they're cashed out one way or another. And even if they were used to purchase stuff, it wouldn't be revenue for Simon. It would be revenue for the stores where the merchandise was bought.
https://investors.simon.com/financia...annual-reports
Simon did more than a billion dollars in gift card sales in 2019.
I'm not an accountant, but I'd guess that it's the fees on the gift cards that it sells that is part of its $5 billion dollar revenue. The amount loaded on the cards is not revenue, or if it is it's offset by an equal liability for the same amount.
Look here:
Gift Cards and Financial Reporting
Different stores handle the revenue from gift cards differently. "Wal-Mart states in its 2006 10-K that it recognizes revenue on gift cards only when “the customer purchases merchandise by using the shopping card.” So for Wal-Mart, at least, no matter how much it loads onto its gift cards, it's not revenue until it's used to purchase stuff.
In MS, the Visa/MC cards aren't used to purchase stuff--they're cashed out one way or another. And even if they were used to purchase stuff, it wouldn't be revenue for Simon. It would be revenue for the stores where the merchandise was bought.
Nov 17, 2020, 12:32 pm
#1745
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 317
Simon Property Group's 10k is public information. Over 90% of total revenue is lease income. They don't specifically break out gift cards but per the notes it is part of other income which represents $400M of their $5.8B revenue. That same note describes other material items (insurance settlement, land sales, interest income, property sales) that are also part of other income. The year over year increase from 2018 to 2019 within that category specifically related to gift cards AND something else was $11.2M.
Perhaps their financials only include as revenue the service fee (or net revenue from the sales) and not the gross price of the gift card? If so, even hundreds of millions of GC gross sales would barely make a dent in their financials.
Perhaps their financials only include as revenue the service fee (or net revenue from the sales) and not the gross price of the gift card? If so, even hundreds of millions of GC gross sales would barely make a dent in their financials.
Nov 17, 2020, 1:06 pm
#1746
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,295
Different stores handle the revenue from gift cards differently. "Wal-Mart states in its 2006 10-K that it recognizes revenue on gift cards only when “the customer purchases merchandise by using the shopping card.” So for Wal-Mart, at least, no matter how much it loads onto its gift cards, it's not revenue until it's used to purchase stuff.
Nov 17, 2020, 1:17 pm
#1748
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,295
They don't have an obligation when they sell a McDonalds/Panera Bread/Visa GC.
Nov 17, 2020, 1:30 pm
#1749
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 170
I looked into the Q3 2020 earnings report In the results summary Simon published the following:
Leasing may be 90% of the revenue. But GC's revenues and Simon Brand Ventures are a line item in the report. They would rather revenue be "increasing" than "decreasing" so I can only assume Simon would like Blackhawk to get back on track for us no matter how small the contribution. Nobody like to read in an earnings report that things are "decreasing". But like others said, for SM to start demanding that BHN enable MO transactions will fall on deaf ears at BHN since Simon doesn't bear the cost of AML.
decreased other income, excluding the aforementioned 2019 items noted above, of $76.7 million, or $0.22 per diluted share/unit, primarily related to decreased Simon Brand Ventures and gift card revenues due to COVID-19 disruption,
Nov 17, 2020, 1:40 pm
#1750
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 317
Of course they do. Most of the funds have to be sent to McDonalds/etc. Why would McDonalds let Simon sell a $100 McD GC and keep the $100 revenue on Simon's books?
Nov 17, 2020, 1:51 pm
#1751
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Khyber Pakhtunkhwa
Posts: 1,929
That very well may mean they seriously consider money order capabilities in facility after all this time. We all joke that it would make the process so extremely easy, but with the common liquidation methods gone, they may finally determine it's worth whatever negatives come with offering money order capabilities
Nov 17, 2020, 1:55 pm
#1752
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,295
When WM sells a $500 McDonalds gift card, the funds go to McDonalds (or whoever manager's McDonald's gift cards for them) minus some cut that WM takes, presumably.
That's why when you said that "So for Wal-Mart, at least, no matter how much it loads onto its gift cards, it's not revenue until it's used to purchase stuff" I replied that it is only related to WM-store gift cards.
Nov 17, 2020, 1:58 pm
#1753
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 170
Selling MO's won't help them either, because its the card issuer blocking the MO/cash like transaction.
Nov 17, 2020, 2:02 pm
#1754
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 170
When WM sells a $500 WM gift card, WM holds the funds until they're spent (ie, their obligation). They can't book the revenue until it's spent.
When WM sells a $500 McDonalds gift card, the funds go to McDonalds (or whoever manager's McDonald's gift cards for them) minus some cut that WM takes, presumably.
That's why when you said that "So for Wal-Mart, at least, no matter how much it loads onto its gift cards, it's not revenue until it's used to purchase stuff" I replied that it is only related to WM-store gift cards.
When WM sells a $500 McDonalds gift card, the funds go to McDonalds (or whoever manager's McDonald's gift cards for them) minus some cut that WM takes, presumably.
That's why when you said that "So for Wal-Mart, at least, no matter how much it loads onto its gift cards, it's not revenue until it's used to purchase stuff" I replied that it is only related to WM-store gift cards.
Nov 17, 2020, 2:03 pm
#1755
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 111
Their 2019 annual report lists "Set a record of more than $1 billion in gift card sales in 2019" but flipping over to their formal 10-K they show "total other income" (including gifts cards) was only 398m.
They attribute 11m of the growth in "other income" to "Simon Brand Ventures and gift card revenues."
At any rate, they sold 1B in cards but they must be only booking the fees because the entirety of "other income" on the 10-K is 0.4B.
So however Simon benefits from selling VGC, it's not about inflating their published revenue.
They attribute 11m of the growth in "other income" to "Simon Brand Ventures and gift card revenues."
At any rate, they sold 1B in cards but they must be only booking the fees because the entirety of "other income" on the 10-K is 0.4B.
So however Simon benefits from selling VGC, it's not about inflating their published revenue.