Mar 28, 2014, 10:58 am
Last edit by: MasterCharge
Welcome to Manufactured Spending. If you are new here, please spend some time reading before posting. Most likely your questions have already been answered multiple times. Consider deals that you share. These threads are searchable by Google. A volatile deal may be worth holding close to the vest.
Hints
1) On FT, topics are heavily consolidated. Sometimes the title of the thread and first few posts may not properly reflect the broad range of discussion inside the thread. Be sure to visit any thread relating to the product or service you want to learn more about because you might be surprised by how in depth the discussion really is. Example: This thread... I know, the first few posts are confusing.
2) Use Google to search FT. It works a lot better than the built-in search.
Important Rules
1) MSing is very YMMV. It varies by store, manager, and right down to the cashier working at the moment. That being said, always be nice and courteous in the face of rejection. The biggest secret for success is to lay low so you can try again.
2) DO NOT spend more than you can afford. START WITH SMALL AMOUNTS TO TEST THE WATER! As an example.. don't start with a $5000 purchase of VGCs if you can't afford to float that much! Instead, buy one and try it, and scale up once you are comfortable with a new method. It's easy to lose track, or get robbed, when you are handling so much money. Getting a refund is NOT always possible.
3) DO NOT ask employees, cashiers, customer service representatives, etc... about how to MS, or about things you read on this forum. The information you read here are very specific, unknown, legal uses of products or services. Most employees, cashiers, and even managers do not know about them. At best you'll get bad information. At worst you'll create a lot of unnecessary misunderstanding.
4) It bears repeating that there are no guarantees. you could easily buy $10,000 in gift cards or some other instrument, only to discover that your method for liquidating them vanishes the very next day. MS is not "normal" financial activity ("normal" being defined by the banks), and thus is often perceived as "suspicious" even if it is "legal."
5) never underestimate the risk of criminal activity. gift cards can easily be stolen, loaded onto a compromised account, loaded in a debit card skimmer, or even fraudulent (e.g., an already used card put back on the rack).
If you have a question that does not seem to fit anywhere, or you have not found an appropriate place for it, post it here.
a helpful note from seat17D about some of the inherent risks of MS:
Take what you read with a grain of salt. No law enforcement agency cares if you are loading 5k to a bluebird per month unless you are loading your money from illegal activities like crack sales. Even at that point they only care about your crack sales, not your bluebird load.
Nobody is going to ask you "why are you loading your bluebird" or "where did you get the money you want to load on your bluebird" when you go to walmart.
Hints
1) On FT, topics are heavily consolidated. Sometimes the title of the thread and first few posts may not properly reflect the broad range of discussion inside the thread. Be sure to visit any thread relating to the product or service you want to learn more about because you might be surprised by how in depth the discussion really is. Example: This thread... I know, the first few posts are confusing.
2) Use Google to search FT. It works a lot better than the built-in search.
Important Rules
1) MSing is very YMMV. It varies by store, manager, and right down to the cashier working at the moment. That being said, always be nice and courteous in the face of rejection. The biggest secret for success is to lay low so you can try again.
2) DO NOT spend more than you can afford. START WITH SMALL AMOUNTS TO TEST THE WATER! As an example.. don't start with a $5000 purchase of VGCs if you can't afford to float that much! Instead, buy one and try it, and scale up once you are comfortable with a new method. It's easy to lose track, or get robbed, when you are handling so much money. Getting a refund is NOT always possible.
3) DO NOT ask employees, cashiers, customer service representatives, etc... about how to MS, or about things you read on this forum. The information you read here are very specific, unknown, legal uses of products or services. Most employees, cashiers, and even managers do not know about them. At best you'll get bad information. At worst you'll create a lot of unnecessary misunderstanding.
4) It bears repeating that there are no guarantees. you could easily buy $10,000 in gift cards or some other instrument, only to discover that your method for liquidating them vanishes the very next day. MS is not "normal" financial activity ("normal" being defined by the banks), and thus is often perceived as "suspicious" even if it is "legal."
5) never underestimate the risk of criminal activity. gift cards can easily be stolen, loaded onto a compromised account, loaded in a debit card skimmer, or even fraudulent (e.g., an already used card put back on the rack).
If you have a question that does not seem to fit anywhere, or you have not found an appropriate place for it, post it here.
a helpful note from seat17D about some of the inherent risks of MS:
I will speak to only the impacts and actions that have been taken (or threatened) to me personally over the years
1. Account closure - always got my money back. Moderate frequency. Little to no long-term impact UNLESS my wife was the first one to find out when her card was declined in public setting
2. Blacklisted by an FI - lower frequency. Short- to medium term impact. Eventually the FI's greed heals all wounds.
3. Blacklisted by a governmental agency -- lower frequency. Variable long-term impact as governmental agencies never actually forget, they just don't take action (see below)
4. Banned from a retail establishment -- threatened, but never actually banned. Mostly just pointed discussion from a misguided manager. Low-medium frequency.
5. Banned from an online establishment -- lower frequency, generally lower impact. Generally permanent, at least for me so far.
6. Cashback forfeited or clawed back -- generally happened to me as part of a credit card shut down. so far only forfeits and not clawbacks, but they are possible
And then there are the things law enforcement can and has done
1. Executed a warrant to subpoena my banking and other financial records without my knowledge
2. Contacted my FIs to inquire as the nature of my financial relationship
3. Frozen the portion of my assets that were currently involved in the activity they were investigating
4. Visited my home -- when I was not there -- to "interview" my spouse, etc. regarding their knowledge and involvement ... and to attempt to obtain additional documentation not already obtained by the subpoenas
5. Threatened to seize my assets. Not just the ones frozen. Not just those I currently possessed. But all assets they deemed as ever having been part of the criminal activity. (Think every GC, MO, etc. you have purchased over the past 3-5 years)
6. Threatened one or more felony charges. (Consider having to explain THAT to your wife or boss.)
And that all was for something that was completely legal, once the 'splaining was done.
Of course once LEO opens a criminal investigation, it never actually closes unless they take you to court and fail. So even though I was cleared of the charges, the original case file is out there ready to be dusted off.
In the end, my biggest concern is the extent to which something will permanently impact my marriage or ability to enter into financial contracts (felony charges would be one example). Fortunately once the initial shock of LEO's investigation wore away, both my marriage and financial relationships were intact. Very thankful both she and a few key FI's stood by me.
When you MS, you are running with scissors.
1. Account closure - always got my money back. Moderate frequency. Little to no long-term impact UNLESS my wife was the first one to find out when her card was declined in public setting
2. Blacklisted by an FI - lower frequency. Short- to medium term impact. Eventually the FI's greed heals all wounds.
3. Blacklisted by a governmental agency -- lower frequency. Variable long-term impact as governmental agencies never actually forget, they just don't take action (see below)
4. Banned from a retail establishment -- threatened, but never actually banned. Mostly just pointed discussion from a misguided manager. Low-medium frequency.
5. Banned from an online establishment -- lower frequency, generally lower impact. Generally permanent, at least for me so far.
6. Cashback forfeited or clawed back -- generally happened to me as part of a credit card shut down. so far only forfeits and not clawbacks, but they are possible
And then there are the things law enforcement can and has done
1. Executed a warrant to subpoena my banking and other financial records without my knowledge
2. Contacted my FIs to inquire as the nature of my financial relationship
3. Frozen the portion of my assets that were currently involved in the activity they were investigating
4. Visited my home -- when I was not there -- to "interview" my spouse, etc. regarding their knowledge and involvement ... and to attempt to obtain additional documentation not already obtained by the subpoenas
5. Threatened to seize my assets. Not just the ones frozen. Not just those I currently possessed. But all assets they deemed as ever having been part of the criminal activity. (Think every GC, MO, etc. you have purchased over the past 3-5 years)
6. Threatened one or more felony charges. (Consider having to explain THAT to your wife or boss.)
And that all was for something that was completely legal, once the 'splaining was done.
Of course once LEO opens a criminal investigation, it never actually closes unless they take you to court and fail. So even though I was cleared of the charges, the original case file is out there ready to be dusted off.
In the end, my biggest concern is the extent to which something will permanently impact my marriage or ability to enter into financial contracts (felony charges would be one example). Fortunately once the initial shock of LEO's investigation wore away, both my marriage and financial relationships were intact. Very thankful both she and a few key FI's stood by me.
When you MS, you are running with scissors.
Nobody is going to ask you "why are you loading your bluebird" or "where did you get the money you want to load on your bluebird" when you go to walmart.
New to Manufactured Spending? Start Here.
Oct 27, 2014, 7:29 pm
#1171
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 14
Thanks for all the help. Some good stuff in here. Much appreciated!
Oct 27, 2014, 7:35 pm
#1172
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 39
Newbie here too but you learn fast!
My advice for starting out is to pull your credit reports and then begin to strip mine credit card sign on bonuses for the airlines you are most likely to use for international travel. At your level of income and with no housing debt you seem adequately capitalized with a good credit score. To meet sign on spending thresholds just accelerate spending by prepaying services directly or buying a few grocery store gift cards.
I've always been hesitant about applying to credit cards, thought it'd wreck my credit score (770) and such. I had one CC from the local Credit Union that I'd use to float the occasional big spend for a month. I had heard about the mint and yogurt deals from years ago on the news and figured those deals were too good to be true but somehow after seeing the United offer, I got intrigued. I would periodically get them in the mail but I chucked them, figuring I did not want to pay the annual fee and that my credit score would go in the toilet if I just apply for the card to cancel it. The typical 30K mile offer did not seem worth it/too risky.
Yet, I started doing research and wow....there are still ways to do it! I bit the bullet and applied. The credit score went UP because of lower CC utilization ratio.
We both opened an amazon payments account....and managed to MS $3K until it closed. I opened a Serve account and put $1000 on it right away and use that now to pay mortgage and other bills, once I got comfortable buying a few GCs every few weeks and loading it. Not huge amounts but $1000 every 2-3 weeks. Fortunately, the WM in my area has a working Kiosk so it has been trouble free!
We just booked the award ticket to Cologne and Vienna two weeks ago.
In the mean time, thanks to FT and also the many great bloggers out there (Google!) I have:
- Bought $400 in gift cards at Staples with $20 cashback
- Bought $500 GC at the grocery and received 1500 gas points so the next fillup will be practically free.
I now have almost 8000 miles back in the account, as we signed up for MP dining and bought a bunch of pet food on a 12 miles/$ day on the UA shopping portal. I'm hooked. I'm waiting to hit $25K for the spender bonus and then switch to another card.
Now the trick will be to get SWMBO on board with the CC game (she is still skeptical) so we can apply both to other cards simultaneously for a trip to Asia/Australia in 2016, hopefully in business class -- she does not handle jet lag well so I hope this makes the trip more manageable (I won't mind either!). I am already oogling CSP and the soon to be defunct US Airways cards, but want to wait the recommended 3 months between credit card applications so hopefully that one will still be around in late November.
I agree that the signup bonuses are the way to go. Getting 120K miles for economy to Europe all by MS would take A LOT of GCs and you would not be saving much, even less so once you add in the gas and time to drive around to WM.
My only grumble is award availability is crummy during the times I can travel due to my job, when everyone else goes on vaca!
Last edited by Panache; Oct 27, 2014 at 7:44 pm
Oct 27, 2014, 7:36 pm
#1173
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 3,688
I know we can buy multiple pin enabled VGC and use them to load Serve, Walmart Bill pay or money orders. What I am still wondering is when you take into account the one time processing fees $4.95 to $5.95 per $500, wont you be having to pay an extra of about $35 + money order/bill pay fees on generating a MS of lets say $3000???
Does it justify the points/miles you get for the money?
Does it justify the points/miles you get for the money?
Oct 28, 2014, 5:13 am
#1174
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 688
What makes all the difference is how much you make combined with where you live. $100k salary in the NYC area is not much. $100k salary in most parts of Michigan/Arizona/Texas and a lot of other states, you can live like a king.
Last edited by rtraveler; Oct 28, 2014 at 5:20 am
Oct 28, 2014, 6:29 am
#1176
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,207
If all you applied to was the united card, you are good to go with us airways and can get that now, probably good with CSP too since you probably dont have a lot of credit inquiries or cards from chase. I did a trial card to see how it affected my credit score when I first started out, and a month later did my first AOR with 5 cards.... definitely dont need to wait 3 months until youve done a big AOR
Oct 28, 2014, 9:37 am
#1177
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 39
If all you applied to was the united card, you are good to go with us airways and can get that now, probably good with CSP too since you probably dont have a lot of credit inquiries or cards from chase. I did a trial card to see how it affected my credit score when I first started out, and a month later did my first AOR with 5 cards.... definitely dont need to wait 3 months until youve done a big AOR
Oct 28, 2014, 9:53 am
#1178
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 50
My wife and I make well over that, but we are not about to drop the money required to fly first class and stay in nice hotels all over the world. The level of wealth needed to do that without having it cut into savings is suprisingly high (more than we make). And, even using miles, trips still end up costing a fair bit of money (meals, taxis, locations without chain hotels, fuel surcharges, etc.), which are a lot easier to absord with a decent income.
Oct 28, 2014, 8:04 pm
#1179
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Minnesota
Programs: Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 1,101
I think a good number. Having a higher income makes doing MS much easier, as it is easier to float money for short periods of time.
My wife and I make well over that, but we are not about to drop the money required to fly first class and stay in nice hotels all over the world. The level of wealth needed to do that without having it cut into savings is suprisingly high (more than we make). And, even using miles, trips still end up costing a fair bit of money (meals, taxis, locations without chain hotels, fuel surcharges, etc.), which are a lot easier to absord with a decent income.
My wife and I make well over that, but we are not about to drop the money required to fly first class and stay in nice hotels all over the world. The level of wealth needed to do that without having it cut into savings is suprisingly high (more than we make). And, even using miles, trips still end up costing a fair bit of money (meals, taxis, locations without chain hotels, fuel surcharges, etc.), which are a lot easier to absord with a decent income.
That is why I appreciate the FT forums so much. Its a wealth of knowledge around experiencing great locations and travel and how to save money doing it. I do make good money, I travel for work, but my Midwestern values still hold true. My mom was/is a coupon clipper, so I guess that rubbed off on me. I love what MS, credit cards and frequent guest programs can mean for enhancing the overall frequency and quality of the travel experience.
Oct 28, 2014, 11:40 pm
#1180
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: PHX & AGP
Programs: AA Lifetime PLT, Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium, Hilton Gold
Posts: 11,453
Oct 29, 2014, 9:12 pm
#1181
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 77
Another relative noob to the MS game. I've got 2 CC's coming to me (Citi AA Platinum non-business, Chase Ink Plus) that'll require $8k in spending over 3 months (the dates almost directly overlap). I'm not looking to do anything more than get this $8k spend done with ASAP so I can fly to the South Pacific for little to nothing come mid-March. I am completely willing to pay ~1% in order to make this happen. From the plethora of info I’ve read, I think this is the best course of action to take:
1. Load $1k to Serve per month, for 3 months, using either of these cards (preferably the Citi AA). I do not have a phone that offers the SoftCard option to up this to $1.5k/month.
Question – Does the Citi AA card code Serve loads as a purchase or CA? I’ve gathered as a purchase (per the Wiki), since it’s a Citi MasterCard. I know the Chase Ink Plus still ultimately codes as a purchase, but I’d rather use it for VGC’s, because of my #2.
2. Over 3 months (or less), buy $5k total in VGC's at office supply stores (preferred due to 5x via Chase Ink), local supermarkets, or CVS’s. Buy in the highest denominations possible ($500).
Question – Are these VGC’s available at Office Supply stores, and will these VGC’s get coded as a purchase or CA?
I can float the cash required for the VGC’s without a problem. I’d buy non-VGC GC’s (Amazon, Shell, etc.) at the office supply stores if I already didn’t have a lot stashed away from my first min spend requirement that just ended last week, but I do, and would prefer not to have more.
Any recommendations on something better, and might anyone be able to confirm/address my questions? Thanks.
1. Load $1k to Serve per month, for 3 months, using either of these cards (preferably the Citi AA). I do not have a phone that offers the SoftCard option to up this to $1.5k/month.
Question – Does the Citi AA card code Serve loads as a purchase or CA? I’ve gathered as a purchase (per the Wiki), since it’s a Citi MasterCard. I know the Chase Ink Plus still ultimately codes as a purchase, but I’d rather use it for VGC’s, because of my #2.
2. Over 3 months (or less), buy $5k total in VGC's at office supply stores (preferred due to 5x via Chase Ink), local supermarkets, or CVS’s. Buy in the highest denominations possible ($500).
Question – Are these VGC’s available at Office Supply stores, and will these VGC’s get coded as a purchase or CA?
I can float the cash required for the VGC’s without a problem. I’d buy non-VGC GC’s (Amazon, Shell, etc.) at the office supply stores if I already didn’t have a lot stashed away from my first min spend requirement that just ended last week, but I do, and would prefer not to have more.
Any recommendations on something better, and might anyone be able to confirm/address my questions? Thanks.
Oct 29, 2014, 10:13 pm
#1182
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 10
More options for Debit cards use
I am just tipping my toes in the water for MS. I have a Ink, and two Southwest RR cards (wife and I) We each have a bluebird. I would like to generate 20-40k a month across all three cards. I will focus on the SW RR to hit the 110k each for companion ticket. My question is other then blue bird, are there complimentary cards with you names on the you can reload? I know that you can only have a serve/redcard/bluebird from Amex at one.
I am focusing on Bluebird like card that I can loud with CC, and unload to money orders easily.
Still kind of confused on exactly I would unload VGC directing into
-Bank Account
- Money Order
-Pay off CC bill
I am focusing on Bluebird like card that I can loud with CC, and unload to money orders easily.
Still kind of confused on exactly I would unload VGC directing into
-Bank Account
- Money Order
-Pay off CC bill
Oct 29, 2014, 10:32 pm
#1183
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 276
Walmart MoneyCard (preferred version) I think you can use debit card to reload. You can also buy money order with debt card at walmart for 70cents or 49cents at Kroger up to $1000 each.
Oct 29, 2014, 11:22 pm
#1184
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 437
Yes. No.
Oct 30, 2014, 11:41 am
#1185
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 14
1. Load $1k to Serve per month, for 3 months, using either of these cards (preferably the Citi AA). I do not have a phone that offers the SoftCard option to up this to $1.5k/month.
Question – Does the Citi AA card code Serve loads as a purchase or CA? I’ve gathered as a purchase (per the Wiki), since it’s a Citi MasterCard. I know the Chase Ink Plus still ultimately codes as a purchase, but I’d rather use it for VGC’s, because of my #2.
Question – Does the Citi AA card code Serve loads as a purchase or CA? I’ve gathered as a purchase (per the Wiki), since it’s a Citi MasterCard. I know the Chase Ink Plus still ultimately codes as a purchase, but I’d rather use it for VGC’s, because of my #2.
