Covid19: LH and Credit Card - Disputes/Chargebacks
Jun 25, 2020, 2:51 pm
#91
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,189
I see that the thread I started has been merged with others, which makes it hard(er) to follow the chain of replies. The title has also changed and does not reflect my first post in the thread: I had no disputes against LH but against other European carriers from whom I had bought tickets with the LH-branded DKB credit card.
As I mentioned back in April, DKB issued a temporary credit for all my chargebacks with a turnaround time of approximately 3 weeks. It took another 1.5 months for them to become final. It's worth noting that I did include all the necessary supporting documentation for each dispute: booking receipt, eticket, cancellation notice, and written refund request to the airline at least 7 days before initiating the dispute. I stuck strictly to the facts with no emotional language or unnecessary details. I guess the rules of the game may have changed since then but I still think this is the best course of action when dealing with an European carrier these days.
For those who think it's fine that clients be forced into lending to corporate behemoths for free, I advise them to read posts 458 and 462 in the "Covid19: Swiss refunds after cancellation" thread.
As I mentioned back in April, DKB issued a temporary credit for all my chargebacks with a turnaround time of approximately 3 weeks. It took another 1.5 months for them to become final. It's worth noting that I did include all the necessary supporting documentation for each dispute: booking receipt, eticket, cancellation notice, and written refund request to the airline at least 7 days before initiating the dispute. I stuck strictly to the facts with no emotional language or unnecessary details. I guess the rules of the game may have changed since then but I still think this is the best course of action when dealing with an European carrier these days.
For those who think it's fine that clients be forced into lending to corporate behemoths for free, I advise them to read posts 458 and 462 in the "Covid19: Swiss refunds after cancellation" thread.
Jul 6, 2020, 4:51 am
#92
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: BTS/VIE
Programs: LH MM**, HH Silver
Posts: 2,282
last month's CC bill shows the disputed amounts refunded, exactly 2 months after I submitted the dispute. Just to make sure I spoke to the credit card company, since they've issued a temporary credit back in April and they confirmed the refund and case closed.
Jul 6, 2020, 7:06 am
#93
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,553
Amex, visa, or MC?
Jul 24, 2020, 5:53 am
#95
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,187
Came across this article earlier this week:
https://brc.org.uk/news/finance/char...tect-yourself/
https://brc.org.uk/news/finance/char...tect-yourself/
The worst thing a retailer can do now is accept chargebacks and friendly fraud, believing they’re a side-effect of COVID-19 that will resolve itself. A retailer needs to identify where its chargebacks are coming from (criminal fraud, merchant error, or friendly fraud) and fix it or fight against them. Not challenging fraudulent disputes can make a company look weak and leave it open to future attacks.
- Keep accurate accounts of purchase information – this will allow businesses build compelling cases against false claims down the line, while speeding up the dispute process, making it easier to handle vast amounts of claims at once.
- Ensuring that customer service teams are well prepared to deal with the influx of customer enquiries – happy customers are less likely to file chargebacks.
- Reducing damages caused by refunds with new and creative strategies will protect revenue. This can include tactics such as offering monthly memberships to customers that file refunds to protect cashflow and revenue streams.
Jul 24, 2020, 9:48 am
#96
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: GIB BCN LUX MLA GOT LCA ATH
Programs: Miles and More FTL; Miles and Bonus *G; Emirates
Posts: 94
Canadian here. I cancelled two premium economy tickets from YYC-FRA-VER September travel on Feb 29. Purchased through American Express platinum travel. Told my refund would be 5-14 days. Early March Amex tells me they made a key stroke error and the refund would take a little longer. Forward to April - After many calls, client services suggested I file a dispute which I did. Amex credited my account in April then charged me again in May. Said my dispute was rejected by Lufthansa. Correspondence incorrect wasn’t even showing the flights we purchased. Filed another dispute in May. Lufthansa correspondence Rejecting second claim shows me travelling from LHR to Dubrovnik. WTH? June 22 Amex tells me refund has been processed. July 21 Have not seen anything yet. Be cautious with Amex travel even as a platinum card holder. Read the fine print. They are no help and take zero responsibility for their errors. No one in Amex checks the correspondence they are sending from the airline? Come on. That is fundamentally wrong. Lufthansa won’t talk to me. Curious if anyone has been notified of refund in June and has received money.
The big problem here is that incompetent issuers may not be willing to open a second chargeback- this has indeed happend to me with AMEX' JV in Belgium called Alpha Card.
Jul 25, 2020, 4:31 am
#97
Join Date: May 2003
Location: TLL
Programs: OZ Diamond, BA Gold, Bonvoy Ambassador, HH Gold
Posts: 4,412
Here's my timeline with OS:
3 April - Flight canceled, refund requested.
3 June - Follow up, told still in process
3 July - Called to follow up, OS would disconnect repeatedly once a selection was made from the menu.
3 July - Chargeback requested from American Express. Confirmation email of original 3 April refund request sent as proof of request.
24 July - Amex credited for both tickets.
3 April - Flight canceled, refund requested.
3 June - Follow up, told still in process
3 July - Called to follow up, OS would disconnect repeatedly once a selection was made from the menu.
3 July - Chargeback requested from American Express. Confirmation email of original 3 April refund request sent as proof of request.
24 July - Amex credited for both tickets.
Jul 25, 2020, 9:17 am
#98
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
Or if you want to do this faster and more efficiently (for you), simply make your request to the carrier for a refund and wait seven days. If, on the 8th day the carrier has not initiated a refund, file a chargeback with your credit card issuer (bank) and supply the documents which back it up at the time of the chargeback:
1. Copy of EC 261/2004, Section 8 - highlighting the refund as an option. (don't supply the entire document).
2. Copy of e-ticket receipt.
3. Copy of notice of cancellation (or significant flight time change).
4. Your request for a refund.
5. Carrier response (if there has been one) or note that you have not heard back,
For UK and US banks, a temporary credit should appear in short order and that will become permanent unless the carrier can somehow demonstrate that it did not cancel (or substantially change) the flight.
No need to send letters before action, pay filing fees or do anything beyond the above, Most issuers have an online portal for this, including the ability to upload the relevant documents. For others, it may cost you a stamp. Don't be tempted to do this orally, even though it may save you a day or two.
1. Copy of EC 261/2004, Section 8 - highlighting the refund as an option. (don't supply the entire document).
2. Copy of e-ticket receipt.
3. Copy of notice of cancellation (or significant flight time change).
4. Your request for a refund.
5. Carrier response (if there has been one) or note that you have not heard back,
For UK and US banks, a temporary credit should appear in short order and that will become permanent unless the carrier can somehow demonstrate that it did not cancel (or substantially change) the flight.
No need to send letters before action, pay filing fees or do anything beyond the above, Most issuers have an online portal for this, including the ability to upload the relevant documents. For others, it may cost you a stamp. Don't be tempted to do this orally, even though it may save you a day or two.
Jul 25, 2020, 9:45 am
#99
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London, UK
Posts: 5,657
Or if you want to do this faster and more efficiently (for you), simply make your request to the carrier for a refund and wait seven days. If, on the 8th day the carrier has not initiated a refund, file a chargeback with your credit card issuer (bank) and supply the documents which back it up at the time of the chargeback:
1. Copy of EC 261/2004, Section 8 - highlighting the refund as an option. (don't supply the entire document).
2. Copy of e-ticket receipt.
3. Copy of notice of cancellation (or significant flight time change).
4. Your request for a refund.
5. Carrier response (if there has been one) or note that you have not heard back,
For UK and US banks, a temporary credit should appear in short order and that will become permanent unless the carrier can somehow demonstrate that it did not cancel (or substantially change) the flight.
No need to send letters before action, pay filing fees or do anything beyond the above, Most issuers have an online portal for this, including the ability to upload the relevant documents. For others, it may cost you a stamp. Don't be tempted to do this orally, even though it may save you a day or two.
1. Copy of EC 261/2004, Section 8 - highlighting the refund as an option. (don't supply the entire document).
2. Copy of e-ticket receipt.
3. Copy of notice of cancellation (or significant flight time change).
4. Your request for a refund.
5. Carrier response (if there has been one) or note that you have not heard back,
For UK and US banks, a temporary credit should appear in short order and that will become permanent unless the carrier can somehow demonstrate that it did not cancel (or substantially change) the flight.
No need to send letters before action, pay filing fees or do anything beyond the above, Most issuers have an online portal for this, including the ability to upload the relevant documents. For others, it may cost you a stamp. Don't be tempted to do this orally, even though it may save you a day or two.
Originally Posted by Swiss
I regret that we failed to meet the standards we committed ourselves to with regards to refund processing times and I understand your frustration in light of the unsuccessful refund request and chargeback attempt. We deem it important to carefully check each refund request. For this reason, all chargebacks have been disputed as the relevant department confronted with these is neither trained to do the necessary checks nor has the capacity to do so. While we received chargeback requests by passengers with a clear entitlement to a refund, there are also other cases to be considered, such as cancellations by passengers who felt it was unsafe to fly or who were unable to fly due to immigration restrictions and also requested refunds. In order to follow a transparent and fair refund process, chargebacks have thus not been agreed to with regard to Coronavirus irregularities, but referred back to our Refunds Department.
So a chargeback to Swiss at least, won't work.
Jul 25, 2020, 10:09 am
#100
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: London | Sydney
Programs: LH HON, QF CL, SQ TPPS, AF Plat, VS Gold, VA Plat, EK Gold, HH Diamond, WoH Globalist, Marriott Plat
Posts: 1,531
Jul 25, 2020, 10:18 am
#101
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London, UK
Posts: 5,657
Jul 25, 2020, 11:11 am
#102
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: London | Sydney
Programs: LH HON, QF CL, SQ TPPS, AF Plat, VS Gold, VA Plat, EK Gold, HH Diamond, WoH Globalist, Marriott Plat
Posts: 1,531
Im sure Amex would follow the process no matter what the amount was tbh
Jul 25, 2020, 3:38 pm
#103
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
LX can "contest" all it wants, but it must produce documentation demonstrating that the refund is not due as of the date the chargeback was sought.
If your card issuing bank has a properly documented chargeback from you, it is then time to switch your bank. There are dozens of examples on FT of banks in the UK and US simply ignoring assertions from LX and other carriers suggesting that they will make a refund at some time outside the law's requirements.
Jul 26, 2020, 1:09 am
#104
Join Date: Nov 2004
Programs: BA GGL, LH FTL
Posts: 3,578
Or if you want to do this faster and more efficiently (for you), simply make your request to the carrier for a refund and wait seven days. If, on the 8th day the carrier has not initiated a refund, file a chargeback with your credit card issuer (bank) and supply the documents which back it up at the time of the chargeback:
1. Copy of EC 261/2004, Section 8 - highlighting the refund as an option. (don't supply the entire document).
2. Copy of e-ticket receipt.
3. Copy of notice of cancellation (or significant flight time change).
4. Your request for a refund.
5. Carrier response (if there has been one) or note that you have not heard back,
For UK and US banks, a temporary credit should appear in short order and that will become permanent unless the carrier can somehow demonstrate that it did not cancel (or substantially change) the flight.
No need to send letters before action, pay filing fees or do anything beyond the above, Most issuers have an online portal for this, including the ability to upload the relevant documents. For others, it may cost you a stamp. Don't be tempted to do this orally, even though it may save you a day or two.
1. Copy of EC 261/2004, Section 8 - highlighting the refund as an option. (don't supply the entire document).
2. Copy of e-ticket receipt.
3. Copy of notice of cancellation (or significant flight time change).
4. Your request for a refund.
5. Carrier response (if there has been one) or note that you have not heard back,
For UK and US banks, a temporary credit should appear in short order and that will become permanent unless the carrier can somehow demonstrate that it did not cancel (or substantially change) the flight.
No need to send letters before action, pay filing fees or do anything beyond the above, Most issuers have an online portal for this, including the ability to upload the relevant documents. For others, it may cost you a stamp. Don't be tempted to do this orally, even though it may save you a day or two.
1.) As I had no right of entry to my destination (incorrect), they were entitled to refuse me transportation, and I only had a right to refund as per fare rules.
2.) Swiss offering to re-evaluate my refund entitlement on providing further documentation as to my right to enter the destination country.
3.) Swiss offering a travel voucher instead.
They forgot to mention their flight cancellation (of all segments
) in their response to Amex.Once this is over, I will share the outcome with Amex's fraud department. Seems a pretty clear cut case of "misleading" through "omission" and "make a gain".
Jul 26, 2020, 4:59 am
#105
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London, UK
Posts: 5,657
I did try this with Amex, and while Amex issued an immediate credit, Swiss disputed the chargeback. Swiss stated that
1.) As I had no right of entry to my destination (incorrect), they were entitled to refuse me transportation, and I only had a right to refund as per fare rules.
2.) Swiss offering to re-evaluate my refund entitlement on providing further documentation as to my right to enter the destination country.
3.) Swiss offering a travel voucher instead.
They forgot to mention their flight cancellation (of all segments) in their response to Amex.
Once this is over, I will share the outcome with Amex's fraud department. Seems a pretty clear cut case of "misleading" through "omission" and "make a gain".
1.) As I had no right of entry to my destination (incorrect), they were entitled to refuse me transportation, and I only had a right to refund as per fare rules.
2.) Swiss offering to re-evaluate my refund entitlement on providing further documentation as to my right to enter the destination country.
3.) Swiss offering a travel voucher instead.
They forgot to mention their flight cancellation (of all segments
) in their response to Amex.Once this is over, I will share the outcome with Amex's fraud department. Seems a pretty clear cut case of "misleading" through "omission" and "make a gain".