FD1971

Uri, I will not make fun of you this time around and give you an honest explanation, because you seem to confuse two things.

The post by lack is brilliant and you simply do not seem to understand the difference between greenlighting a project and cancelling it afterwards, because it did not work.

Some very smart people with a lot of knowledge compiled some data resulting in a green light for a project.

It is absolutely normal that despite all the smart input, this project will fail.

This is what we call management after all and the examples of failed projects despite all the smart input is pretty long, just take a lot at Apple, the Mercedes R Class, the first new Swiss etc.

Fortunately, in the case of Lufthansa it never resulted in losing money after privatisation, not even in 2001 or 2008 or 2009. Unfortunately, for other airlines, like Swissair, this was not the case.

So again, it is part of management to green-light projects and it is also part of management that projects will fail despite all the data predicting otherwise, in aviation external factors have a stronger influence compared to other industries, so it tends to be even more difficult.

And quite frankly, and please do not take it personal, LH is well-advised to listen to experts for giving them input and not some fans on an internet-bulletin boards. There is a reason why you post your insights for free and other people receive generous compensation for their input.

YuropFlyer

Sounds like a lot of management bull to explain why all their projects fail..

FD1971

This is another test-balloon with a relatively low investment, one that will be under constant attack from the unions.

I had several projects in and around the famous Eurowings container at CGN and became fond of most of the people working there (at a level of compensation well below their colleagues downtown, not to mention FRA or HAM) so I applaud them for getting the go-ahead, trust and, hopefully, support from the big boys in FRA.

On the other hand, as pointed out before, I really hope that nobody expects financial returns closer to the ones on major markets from FRA or MUC.

The decision for the go-ahead came a just few weeks after CGN was allowed to continue operating 24 hours. I guess Garvens will throw in some money as well, at least he can invest all the money he saved from not moving to BBI.

Lack

Probably not for the sake of simply doing a mistake. Aside for their service choices (be it M&M, NEK or other new cabin) how many mistakes have they made? How costly were they? Even with LH Italia or BMI I reckon they lost less then EY seems to burn every quarter at AZ and AB.

They aren't going all in which limits the pot, but also saves the bankroll.

Serves the money hiding purpose as well I reckon :-).

gum

A valid reason only exists in the imagination of the project initiator.

Ah.... let me think.....:

It could be that you prefer old aircraft instead of the partly brand-new EK/QR fleet.

FD1971

Well, the losses would occur in 2015 or 2016 and since Menne has all hands full at the moment, I really really fear that the Neksayers will face their Judgment Day some time in 2016 after LH announced their highest profit ever. I am already looking forward to some of the comments. I can already see some FT'ers swimming across the Rhine and beg Franz for absolution.

Anyway, there will be some pissed shareholders in May, so I can only suggest to earn some serious profits in 2015 and pay a higher dividend for this year, not only €200 million like in 2014 for FY 2013.

But I do not see Varadero or Punta Cana contributing a lot of profit, but 'Kleinvieh macht auch Milch.'

YuropFlyer

FD1971 in 2010: 2011 will be THE year of Lufthansa
FD1971 in 2011: 2012 will be THE year of Lufthansa
FD1971 in 2012: 2013 will be THE year of Lufthansa
FD1971 in 2013: 2014 will be THE year of Lufthansa
FD1971 in 2014: 2015 will be THE year of Lufthansa
FD1971 in 2015: 2016 will be THE year of Lufthansa

Just a tiny little bit repetitive.. but then there are also some "experts" who say that the Chinese economy will crash this year for sure (since 1998 or so..)

Lack

2-4-2 A332 over 3-4-3 B777? Any day of the week.

You're going to milk it for all it's worth? :-)

gum

Dear YuropFlyer,

I would have been happy if I would see valuable content in your posting.

Although I am also not a fan of NEK and the high-density layout of some parts of the Lufthansa fleet I can agree that Lufty's performance is much better than the performance of the most competitors.

Think of the many airlines which have been operated or are operating under Chapter 11 of the American law or those stately funded operations from the Middle East.

The Lufthansa share (securities identifier: 823212) quotes approx. 30 percent higher than compared with a quote in June 2005.

Compare this with the developments at American Airlines which filed bankruptcy according to this Reuters news:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...TRE7AS0T220111

And calculate which amount of money the former shareholders have lost since 2005.

That said I can't follow your exaggeration, but as in most cases FD1971 is completely correct with his observations respectively comments. Especially if he points out the high operating profits of Lufthansa.

YuropFlyer

You (and FD1971) truly must be living in another universe..

Let's compare LH with real competitors, and not AF

IAG group: Going very strong
TK: Record profit at the very moment, not in some "forecasts" of some not-on-earth managers or forum "experts".
EK: Doing extremely well

I won't throw the US american carriers in (they basically cheated through chapter 11) but they're all doing very good as well.

Some airlines - some, to add, which don't have an extremely strong home base and many customers which would prefer the "national carrier" over anything else unless the national carrier is so much more expensive/much worse - do MUCH better than LH.

Of course LH isn't doing as bad as SOME others. But anyone telling me that LH's management is doing "great" or similar things (like you and FD1971..) - meh, I just can't believe you actually say this with a straight face. Or, as said initially, different universe.

I'm too lazy to search for some posts from 2012 or 2013 or so, when SCORE was "started" in one sense or another, but I do remember very well how the LH fanboy #1 back then already announced that it will lead to "record earnings" very soon.. and I'm sure others here will remember that too.

So don't tell me I'm not adding anything to the discussion, when I'm just telling the truth that some people apparently can't stand.

Good luck with defending LH in the future - it won't get easier for your kind

FD1971

Faktencheck

All you need to know.

FD1971

Gähhhnnnnn.

Uri, for the 187th time, this is not a game and we are not looking for a winner.

AFAIK, you lag an education in business or management, but you run a small export business yourself.

I try to explain it another time.

As long as your business is successful and you make a profit, which you consider worthwhile, you will continue exporting milk powder to China. One of your competitors, Nestle, is way more profitable than you are, but again, as long as your shareholders are happy with your performance, you should be fine.

Lufthansa is profitable, the shareholders voice their support every year at the annual meeting, so here we go.

Maybe, LH could do better.

But again, I am very happy that LH listens to highly skilled managers, consultants, academics, good customers how to become better, more profitable etc. and not people yelling from the stands on an internet bulletin board.

Judging from general developments in society more and more people in the stands want to be part of the action, they want more democracy etc.

I think it is a very very good development, but in order to be heard you have to have some skills, you have to have something to say, so I am more than happy to listen to experts adding their insight.

Unfortunately, you are not one of them and as long as LH is profitable and the shareholders support the board, I fear your 'truth' is a very isolated one.

Indeed, Franz predicted a sum close to record profits for 2014, that was before Putin started a major war right next door, Venezuela had some issues with its currency (cost LH close to €40 million, IIRC) not to mention a few minor minor strikes (another €200) etc.

So, I fear 2014 was only their 5th or 6th best year..., on the other hand, if the German Government adds a few billion like other Governments, for example in Turkey, Qatar, Abu Dhabi or Dubai, I am pretty sure LH will post record profits soon.

They will actually do so this year without any cent from the Government.

FD1971

Nobody is a fan of the NEK or the new high density configurations LX will fly, they are as far away from former SR standards as possible, actually I had to chuckle when I read that they have new manuals for boarding the A321 due to potential problems with the balance of the bird, but on the other hand, the profits from operating an airline are also not comparable to SR, which started losing money from ops. some time in the late 1980's.

We, as European citizens, supported the Governments who pushed for deregulation. Maybe, we have to blame ourselves, because we did not do enough research what aviation might become down the road, but it is somehow strange to complain about a status quo that the majority of us supported wholeheartedly.

The major advantage of a deregulated market, we have tons of choices, hence I wonder why people like Uri always complain to LH for losing their seat assignments...

AFAIK, I might be wrong, in order to get seats assigned, one has to have a ticket, so I can only guess that Uri bought a ticket, which seems to be somehow inconsistent.

YuropFlyer

Lag (sic!) a degree (!) doesn't mean lack of common sense (something LH definitely is lacking off..)

Thank you for agreeing to me.

With oil at a 10-year (or longer?) low, the economy (world wide) being in a rather good shape, and generally most airlines doing well, having earned less in 2014 (and without a good forecast either for 2015) during the period the short-term benefits of SCORE are earned (and the long-term negative effects haven't really kicked in yet) than in 2010 (aftermath of Lehman) does say everything So, thanks for supporting my side for once

FD1971

Please, please do another Faktencheck. And use common sense doing it.