LHs strategy: discussion thread for customers, investors, consultants & armchair CEOs
Oct 2, 2014, 9:06 am
#1606
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SIN (with a bit of ZRH sprinkled in)
Posts: 9,460
Oct 4, 2014, 9:56 am
#1607
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: OSL/IAH/ZRH (time, not preference)
Programs: UA1K, LH GM, AA EXP->GM
Posts: 38,265
Dark Ages? Seriously, don't to comparisons when you don't know what you're talking about..
..UAE for sure aren't the pinacle of democracy or "freedom", but they're not about "Dark Ages" either.. go rant against SV if you feel like talking about Dark Ages..
..DXB is still expanding, and DWC eventually will be ready when DXB indeed is "full". Not worse than any other big hub to transit from my personal experience, actually liked it much over many others.
..One seat more wide, I guess you mean like in the 777 in Y? I've experienced it, it's not so bad for an average person actually..
..and on the other hand you get more legroom than on LH..
Plus, the "1 more" is by now industry standard. Go ask LX about their 777 order..
The "barbaric food options" I fail to understand. Care to elaborate?
For my purposes EK is still the LCC it was when I used them and serves the purpose when I gave them a try - being a dirt cheap option at the price of a bad seat and a detour through the desert. The idea of paying anything near the fare of a legacy, let alone a premium for EK appears grotesque to me.
And with PE coming to LH and hopefully to LX, I have no use whatsoever for them anymore. I am however uncertain if many people see it like that and if it that was a factor for adding PE.
Oct 6, 2014, 1:55 am
#1608
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 640
Another enhancement:
OS is no longer co-operating with LH regarding check-in services in TXL.
Consequently it is no longer possible to use the LH First Class check-in when departing on an OS flight.
For what it's worth OS do offer a First/Business Class check-in themselves - but if there is a queue one cannot divert to the LH check-in.
They argue it's down to price and some contractor offering cheaper services to OS. Consequently a few LH employees will lose their jobs.
I think this is BS and more evidence that LH Group management is incapable on getting a grip on their operations. Excellence is different.
OS is no longer co-operating with LH regarding check-in services in TXL.
Consequently it is no longer possible to use the LH First Class check-in when departing on an OS flight.
For what it's worth OS do offer a First/Business Class check-in themselves - but if there is a queue one cannot divert to the LH check-in.
They argue it's down to price and some contractor offering cheaper services to OS. Consequently a few LH employees will lose their jobs.
I think this is BS and more evidence that LH Group management is incapable on getting a grip on their operations. Excellence is different.
Oct 6, 2014, 2:04 am
#1609
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Southern Bavaria, Germany
Programs: LH Blue, BA Blue, Hyatt Gold
Posts: 1,517
Any special request and normally the outsourced check-in staff is not able to solve due to lack of insight into the details of every workflow of the LH group.
Sub-contracting normally is not the best decision in a service-related industry. Especially if you compare a two-digits per hour salary with the high number of passengers one employee can handle per hour.
Oct 6, 2014, 2:10 am
#1610
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,238
TXL is one of the few German stations completely outsourced, so checkin is done by globeground. Since LH will only have flights to FRA&MUC ex TXL/BER, the LH operations are being significantly reduced. Call me an apologist, but isn't checkin at the gate for TXL? Why would you waste time to get to the central hall and checkin with LH? When you can go to the OS gate directly (which you have to anyway)?
Oct 6, 2014, 2:57 am
#1611
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: VCE
Posts: 14,165
What I would say is- if reducing and outsourcing checkin staff is the goal- a better app and overall technology experience for web and particularly mobile checkin would make all the difference. More than any other airlines I end up going to the counter with Lufthansa and their partners because of problems with the apps. Particularly the ongoing very difficult usage of the Swiss App and the very difficult to use with Safari and iOS Lufthansa system drive me as a customer to the counter.
So- as armchair CEO- if we are to focus on driving people away from the checkin counters- let's make sure our Apps and Websites work with all the major browsers, Apps, and operating systems. Telling people to buy a windows machine so they can checkin for a Lufthansa flight seems a bit outdated of an opinion in 2014 and as an Apple user still the problems with Safari and iOS are continuous with Lufthansa group. I have deleted the Swiss App completely from my phones and tablets and keep the Lufthansa App out of the hope it will get better- but compared to the competition it is very far behind and difficult to use plus requires repetitive entry of information- like a bad webpage ported over to an App actually.
Oct 6, 2014, 3:50 am
#1612
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 640
TXL is one of the few German stations completely outsourced, so checkin is done by globeground. Since LH will only have flights to FRA&MUC ex TXL/BER, the LH operations are being significantly reduced. Call me an apologist, but isn't checkin at the gate for TXL? Why would you waste time to get to the central hall and checkin with LH? When you can go to the OS gate directly (which you have to anyway)?
As OS is a 100% subsidiary of LH it is completely beyond me why services cannot be integrated.
Oct 6, 2014, 3:51 am
#1613
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: ZRH
Programs: LX HON***, FB Silver, BA Silver, Bonvoy Gold, Hyatt GP, Hertz Gold, GHA Black
Posts: 836
Another enhancement:
OS is no longer co-operating with LH regarding check-in services in TXL.
Consequently it is no longer possible to use the LH First Class check-in when departing on an OS flight.
For what it's worth OS do offer a First/Business Class check-in themselves - but if there is a queue one cannot divert to the LH check-in.
They argue it's down to price and some contractor offering cheaper services to OS. Consequently a few LH employees will lose their jobs.
I think this is BS and more evidence that LH Group management is incapable on getting a grip on their operations. Excellence is different.
OS is no longer co-operating with LH regarding check-in services in TXL.
Consequently it is no longer possible to use the LH First Class check-in when departing on an OS flight.
For what it's worth OS do offer a First/Business Class check-in themselves - but if there is a queue one cannot divert to the LH check-in.
They argue it's down to price and some contractor offering cheaper services to OS. Consequently a few LH employees will lose their jobs.
I think this is BS and more evidence that LH Group management is incapable on getting a grip on their operations. Excellence is different.
Oct 6, 2014, 4:04 am
#1614
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 361
The non LH carriers dont want to pay the high LH price anymore. LX changed from LH check in to another agents some weeks back. LH does not reduce its costs and I find it absolutely fair that OS and LX dont want to pay for it. I however agree from a customer experience perspective showing LH group as one stop to the customer is really bad. The key is with LH and its management, instead of shifting costs - reducing them would be a way to go.
From a customer perspective, of course I would expect one face to the customer. Check-in is potentially less critical, but the same issue holds for IRROPs. LH is reducing staff at outstations as flights are switched over to 4U, and no - 4U, LX, or OS staff will not be able to help in a seamless fashion. And it is exactly how many years after the LX acquisition and the IT systems still don't talk to each other?
From a company perspective, though, this is also bordering on the delusional. So I serve TXL, a quite minor airport, in fact, with four different carriers (LH, 4U, LX, OS), and I am not even able to integrate check-in - be it with own personnel or outsourced, doesn't matter? So zero economies of scale. Wonderful.
Oct 6, 2014, 4:08 am
#1615
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,238
Again, TXL is not handled by LH, all of it is Globe Ground in LH uniform. Besides TXL (which was never LH operated), at all German non-hub domestic stations LX/OS/SN/LH are splitting up from 4U and the LH staff are being let go.
Oct 6, 2014, 4:13 am
#1616
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: ZRH
Programs: LX HON***, FB Silver, BA Silver, Bonvoy Gold, Hyatt GP, Hertz Gold, GHA Black
Posts: 836
I agree that it is GG managed but it was in one hand. This is now changing and at the end all LH group airlines will have there own procedures. The one stop and understanding of potential transfer issues, solving interruptions etc etc is gone. This is the main "enhancement" not who is doing it.
Oct 6, 2014, 4:45 am
#1617
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: VCE
Posts: 14,165
From a company perspective, though, this is also bordering on the delusional. So I serve TXL, a quite minor airport, in fact, with four different carriers (LH, 4U, LX, OS), and I am not even able to integrate check-in - be it with own personnel or outsourced, doesn't matter? So zero economies of scale. Wonderful.
Oct 6, 2014, 5:08 am
#1618
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,238
Irreg has very specific procedures for each airline and all ground handlers that airlines contract to handle outstations are well versed in what to do.
Oct 6, 2014, 8:55 am
#1619
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: GVA,OPO
Programs: BD the last decent FFP
Posts: 1,856
CH-aviation on Air Dolomiti being repositioned to Wings.
And we have a new variation of the AC type for the longhaul Wings - A332.
A have a name suggestion for the Wings in Italy - LH Italia @:-)
And we have a new variation of the AC type for the longhaul Wings - A332.
Air Dolomiti (EN, Verona) could be repositioned as a budget operation under the "Wings" plan parent Lufthansa (LH, Frankfurt Int'l) has devised. Citing internal company documents, German travel magazine FVW says Lufthansa Group has already tasked germanwings (4U, Cologne/Bonn) Managing Director and Chief Operating Officer, Oliver Wagner, with devising a possible strategy for the Group's Italian operation.
Under the Wings concept, Lufthansa intends to relaunch Eurowings (EW, Dusseldorf) as a regional European LCC in spring 2015. The new carrier will operate a fleet of twenty-three A320-200s with its initial base set to be Basle/Mulhouse/Freiburg.
While a renewed Eurowings will initially focus on core home markets in Germany, Switzerland, Austria, and Belgium, Lufthansa's CEO Karl Ulrich Garnadt has disclosed plans to also enter the Italian market where domestic flights are currently dominated by budget carriers such as Ryanair (FR, Dublin Int'l) and easyJet (U2, London Luton). It is here where Air Dolomiti will likely find its new niche, he told the Süddeutsche Zeitung newspaper.
Lufthansa's Wings proposal also includes plans to develop a long haul budget carrier which, Garnadt added, will now use a fleet of seven A330-200s (as opposed to A330-300s as previously reported) based out of Cologne/Bonn, Dusseldorf and Munich. Among the options on the table are using its Turkish Airlines (TK, Istanbul Atatürk) joint venture, Sun Express (XQ, Antalya), as a platform for the operation.
While Lufthansa management is only expected to make a decision in December, Lufthansa Group CEO Karsten Spohr has said that the German carrier is willing to go it alone should the need arise.
Under the Wings concept, Lufthansa intends to relaunch Eurowings (EW, Dusseldorf) as a regional European LCC in spring 2015. The new carrier will operate a fleet of twenty-three A320-200s with its initial base set to be Basle/Mulhouse/Freiburg.
While a renewed Eurowings will initially focus on core home markets in Germany, Switzerland, Austria, and Belgium, Lufthansa's CEO Karl Ulrich Garnadt has disclosed plans to also enter the Italian market where domestic flights are currently dominated by budget carriers such as Ryanair (FR, Dublin Int'l) and easyJet (U2, London Luton). It is here where Air Dolomiti will likely find its new niche, he told the Süddeutsche Zeitung newspaper.
Lufthansa's Wings proposal also includes plans to develop a long haul budget carrier which, Garnadt added, will now use a fleet of seven A330-200s (as opposed to A330-300s as previously reported) based out of Cologne/Bonn, Dusseldorf and Munich. Among the options on the table are using its Turkish Airlines (TK, Istanbul Atatürk) joint venture, Sun Express (XQ, Antalya), as a platform for the operation.
While Lufthansa management is only expected to make a decision in December, Lufthansa Group CEO Karsten Spohr has said that the German carrier is willing to go it alone should the need arise.
Oct 6, 2014, 10:03 am
#1620
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: ZRH
Programs: LX HON***, FB Silver, BA Silver, Bonvoy Gold, Hyatt GP, Hertz Gold, GHA Black
Posts: 836
despite the fact that my comment was not only specific to TXL, there are reasons where you buy a ticket with stopover/tranfer as it might be cheaper