Lufthansa First Award seats availability [for partner FFPs outside of M&M]
May 3, 2012, 3:02 am
#31
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: ORD
Programs: BA, AA, SQ, UA, AC, WS, MR TIT
Posts: 8,659
May 3, 2012, 8:43 am
#32
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 175
what I find weird is that *if* an award seat in F is available:
US, ANA & BMI (for SWISS when they started blocking and BMI still offered LH/LX redemptions)
were *not* able to see or book.
AC & UA (at least in some occations)
were able to book.
I'd be interested if other carriers like SQ, TG,NZ , which are more restrictive, are able to book award seats?
US, ANA & BMI (for SWISS when they started blocking and BMI still offered LH/LX redemptions)
were *not* able to see or book.
AC & UA (at least in some occations)
were able to book.
I'd be interested if other carriers like SQ, TG,NZ , which are more restrictive, are able to book award seats?
May 3, 2012, 9:20 am
#33
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: VCE
Posts: 14,165
LH makes 70% of their longhaul revenue by selling C seats. F is supposed to be an experience, and they don't intend to sell every seat in F, its always been like that. The peanuts they get out of the *A pot for giving a partner FFP a F award seat probably doesn't cover the cost of catering and the kit. 
The kit costs less than 10 EUR and from my understanding is heavily subsidized by Bogner.
The catering would be a stretch to get to 40 EUR p.p.
The "taxes" and fees alone are over 300 EUR so there is some easy room for margin here.
May 3, 2012, 10:10 am
#34
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: OSL/IAH/ZRH (time, not preference)
Programs: UA1K, LH GM, AA EXP->GM
Posts: 38,265
May 3, 2012, 10:14 am
#35
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: OSL/IAH/ZRH (time, not preference)
Programs: UA1K, LH GM, AA EXP->GM
Posts: 38,265
May 3, 2012, 10:22 am
#36
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Location: VCE
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May 3, 2012, 10:59 am
#37
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SEA, but up and down the coast a lot
Programs: Oceanic Airlines Gold Elite
Posts: 20,395
I think that the theory is that LH wants to sell F for real cash, and that they can do this by providing a superior product. Part of the superior product that they think they are providing is exclusivity. For the customer that they are targeting, I guess they believe that losing some revenue from mile redeemers will increase exclusivity for paying customers, and thus increase paying customers.
Or they just think that they can fill enough of the seats (only 8) through cash buyers that they don't need to give any out.
Or they just think that they can fill enough of the seats (only 8) through cash buyers that they don't need to give any out.
Also, the airline that is blowing past LH, EK? Very generous op-ups and upgrades (none of the "oh, your €2000+ Z fare you buy regularly? Not good enough to e-upgrade" LH wants to practice) and they price their premium cabins to sell, and sell they do.
And people with money to burn who really want privacy have a simple solution: private jets.
I'll conclude with this: if SQ is finding they can't kick *A mileage redeemers out of their premium cabins permanently, what makes LH think they can?
I think it's more likely that LH loses more opportunities for sales making C available to *A partners than F.
Case in point; I usually find more longhaul F available on UA than C. UA know what sells.
(Yes, I know, UA F is bad. That being said, several thousand euros is a lot of money to pay for caviar, champagne and duckies.)
May 4, 2012, 10:59 am
#38
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: OSL/IAH/ZRH (time, not preference)
Programs: UA1K, LH GM, AA EXP->GM
Posts: 38,265
May 4, 2012, 11:20 am
#39
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: hamburg
Posts: 1,390
May 4, 2012, 11:26 am
#40
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: AVL
Programs: AA, AS, SQ, Hilton Diamond, PC Platinum, National Exec
Posts: 726
May 4, 2012, 11:57 am
#41
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 213
It doesn't look like they participate any longer, sorry for the out of date advice. Try signing up for the free newsletter or credit an upcoming hotel stay/rental car to M&M.
May 4, 2012, 8:11 pm
#42
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 29
LH Stingy on *A award seats to Dubai - Question
I take an annual trip to Dubai, cashing in miles earned on United for FC travel on LH.
This year I've had more difficulty than ever booking FC on FRA-DXB. I expected some of that because of the reduction of capacity resulting from the new FC service, BUT I've also found they opened ZERO FC seats on this route on weekends (Fri - Sun), forcing me to travel on a Thursday.
I called LH and found that on each of the flights for the following three days, the number of seats currently occupied are...you guessed it...0, 0, and 0. Totally empty. Remember, this is Dubai in the SUMMER, when the hotels there are deserted, and it's the lowest of the low season.
My question for the group:
I imagine they will open seats on the weekend following the Thursday I'm currently scheduled to travel, since they'll never sell 8 FC revenue seats that time of year. Of course LH will never say how far in advance they will open up for *A award redemption, so my question is, in your experience, is there a good rule of thumb? A day? A week? Two?
Thanks!
This year I've had more difficulty than ever booking FC on FRA-DXB. I expected some of that because of the reduction of capacity resulting from the new FC service, BUT I've also found they opened ZERO FC seats on this route on weekends (Fri - Sun), forcing me to travel on a Thursday.
I called LH and found that on each of the flights for the following three days, the number of seats currently occupied are...you guessed it...0, 0, and 0. Totally empty. Remember, this is Dubai in the SUMMER, when the hotels there are deserted, and it's the lowest of the low season.
My question for the group:
I imagine they will open seats on the weekend following the Thursday I'm currently scheduled to travel, since they'll never sell 8 FC revenue seats that time of year. Of course LH will never say how far in advance they will open up for *A award redemption, so my question is, in your experience, is there a good rule of thumb? A day? A week? Two?
Thanks!
May 6, 2012, 5:16 pm
#44
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SEA, but up and down the coast a lot
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Posts: 20,395
Apparently they've kicked garbage like me out of F to have plenty of seats available for LH employees:
The upper deck continued to fill up, surprisingly enough mostly with Americans (in my experience most Lufthansa first class passengers are German). There were two other Germans, and everyone else was American, including two Lufthansa employees (which might explain why they assumed I was an employee, since maybe they knew two Lufthansa employees were aboard in first class).
May 6, 2012, 5:40 pm
#45
Senior Moderator, Moderator: Community Buzz and Ambassador: Miles & More (Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, and other partners)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: 150km from MAN
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Posts: 29,517
Apparently they've kicked garbage like me out of F to have plenty of seats available for LH employees:
