CalFlyer

Here is the link to the official LH press release (German only):

http://presse.lufthansa.com/nc/meldu...ist%5B1%5D=jet

andre1970

I guess this one comes next
Well, that partially answers totti's question: The actual number of Cessna HONs, or SENs (myself, I have a gut feeling it will be considerably higher than what mag predicts) will be useful in order to provide an additional measure of the appeal of HON status and help LH to explicitly/properly price it in the future...

OK, since I don't have the time to jump into one of those Cessna hops on weekdays, I'm just sitting here speculating about life...

DownUnderFlyer

There is a huge incentive now for some people to leave the company plane in the hangar and use the LH option instead. It wouldn't surprise me if some in our top management with company plane authority will do this.
And also, how many people will make it to HON this way who are using this option once in a while anyway? Someone doing 1-2 return trips a month might engineer things now to get to HON.

mag

... deserving to be HON, anyway.

AHN

I'm doing 2-3 European return trips in Y every month (8-12 segments) and very far from reaching HON. I am very happy to be SEN, and think reaching HON in this way would simply set me up for future disappointment since I cannot requalify under normal circumstances. The most tempting thing here for me would be the miles and evouchers, not the status.

beepee

tempting...

econprof

I really have to laugh at people talking about "deserving HONs" and "fake HONs", etc... as if status with an airline company actually means something other than status with an airline company. It's just flying from one place to another not a referendum on your worth as a person.

LH has set up the incentives, people are responding to them. That's economics...

Will I take advantage of this if I can? Sure! The benefits and costs clearly indicate that it's worth it, even without the status of flashing the black card.

tomekp

Can't believe Guys you are serious.

I am aware that this post is not in FT spirit... but...

I can put you into three categories:
1- current HONs very disappointed about this gap giving possibility to reach their status within one weekend for EUR10k
2- travellers who do not travel that much but want to spend EUR10k for the black card
3- observators

I do not understand you guys... the loyality programs have been developed to secure your loyality when you need to fly.. not to make you flying if you don't really need.
M&M program seems to be too superior that you spend more money/time than you are expected or need to do.
conlusion: you can't complain for the program as is so good that you do the runs. If wasn't so good you wouldn't do that and did not pay attention for the status.

Dear HON's - I understand that you want to keep the circle as prestige as possible. You complain that more members would relax the perks.
But the should not be the case. More HON's does not mean less perks... that rather means that HON will be less unique (is it not the real issue here ?)

Travellers who want to make this run officialy for miles/eVouchers... would you make this effort if program offered only award miles and evouchers without black card? I guess no. (edit - at least one reported to do so )

And guys who make side comments - do you really believe that people who fly corporate jets will use LPJ instead to gain HON status ?
For them HON status is nothing. If they have power to use corporate jests or are allowed to fly in chartered plane thay do no need any status.
What for do you need status if you travel only with LPJ ?

just my 2 cents....

... I will be probably lynched so will not check this thread soon

Take care !
tomekp

DownUnderFlyer

Sorry, I meant someone already doing a return trip on LH Private Jet, not just any return trip.

JohnDP

I perfectly agree with the above statements, especially about the black card being not so special. Btw, I know at least 2 people that have a similar black card, the Amex Centurion (i.e. much more exclusive), one of which a young girl that is ashamed of using it, but its the only way for her to pay with her fathers money...Comical I know but still!

Back to the HON Run. I am a SEN guy, you average 100'000 miles traveller, so I get the gold card relatively easy. I am now being tempted to do the HON Run, but that comes at a very high cost, hence I am calculating on the base of award miles and upgrades not the flashy card.

I know for a fact that there are people who would insult LH if they are not called by name and that if there is no shiny limousine pickup they would start calling the lawyers, but I guess this is a character problem.

I do not now how much people are in a F cabin or lounge but I don't think that the amount of HON's will double with this promotion, which btw is very limited and I can rest assured that it will NOT be repeated, at least not with 50'000 miles instead of 10'000 per leg. Else LH makes no sense...

So I think there are a lot of people "considering" the HON Run, like me, but in the end there will be only a handful actually "doing" the HON Run. Besides, people like me, who cannot reach HON Status at all will definitely fall back to SEN for the foreseable rest of their flying future.

So don't worry, just enjoy the perks and relax.

andre1970

Well, that's just "positive" economics... I suspect, however, you also teach your students what should be the right incentives (from anyone's standpoint). That's what this thread is about... @:-)

Rambuster

Nonsense ! Amex Centurion cards are also dished out like candy!
And by the way, you can have additional Centurion cards in any variation: Green, Gold and Black ! Therefore if you don't want to show off simply get a Green Centurion card....

econprof

I worry more about incentives and how people respond to them. Interpersonal utility comparisons aren't really feasible. Do I teach normative economics? No, not really.

Anyway,in this case, LH presumably knows how to maximize its profits or whatever other objective it has. Clearly there is some issue in this case with "main" LH subsidizing PrivateJet, since PJ gets the revenue and (apart from fuel and staff), "main" LH is going to bear the costs of award tickets, lounge costs, etc. They also get the revenue now while the costs will be borne over the next couple of years.

So, I am guessing that they want to show a big positive quarter for PJ and are willing to absorb the costs in "main" LH later on. Relative to the overall costs in LH, the costs of even 5000 award tickets is nothing (since these are seats that would, presumably be empty, or nearly so, anyway... it's only the marginal cost of fuel and food that matters). But this could be a big boost for PJ.

I think the people who are worried about the negative externalities of this action (i.e. HONs who are concerned that we low-life-SENs will invade their precious FCT) are overreacting by a factor of 100. Even if there are 300 more HONs out of this (which seems like a huge overestimate, given the PJ
capacity and the number of people who might be willing to take useless flights), the impact on the lounges will be minimal.

To the extent that this action really does increase the number of HONs, one also has to guess that LH knows how many people are going to lose HON status in the next year, given the shift in flying patterns, etc., and they want to increase the number of HONs for some reason. Maybe the fixed costs of providing the F/HON lounges are just too high without a certain number of passengers to justify them. Dunno.

The biggest concern of folks here me seems to be a watering down of the "exclusivity" of HON status. And to that I say ... get over it.

sfosenkid

I am a SEN, and I barely qualify for SEN every requalification year. I live in the US, and I do around 3-4 RTs a year in paid C between the US and DE, and that's it. The years I don't have requalify, I burn my miles and usually credit very little if anything to M&M.

I used to fly United for domestic flights, but I moved my business over to Virgin America, which I like a lot better. What's refreshing about VX is that they do not have any status, and upgrades to First Class are purely on a first come first serve basis for cash payment, so I always fly First Class by paying just $250 / flight. Much better deal than United. Not to mention, they have Internet on all planes and their F is much newer and IMHO nicer than United's.

I would def. do this promotion for 10k euros to make HON: I would get 2 1/2 years of HON and 2 years of SEN (without having to requalify for that SEN). That's 4 1/2 years of status. Plus, with 600k miles, I can buy 6 RT award flights between the US and Germany, that alone has a value of 6 * $3500 (assuming Z class) = $21000 = 15k EUR. Not to mention that I prefer taking award flights than booking in Z class, because I am not subject to the 50 day advance booking requirement.

Plus 6 evouchers = 3 upgrades to F when I am on paid tickets.

Re: HON. I don't think people like me would "dilute" HON benefits that much. If I use HON lounges 6-8 times a year, that hardly makes a difference. On the other hand, whenever I fly domestic LH in Germany, around 50% of the time when I see HONs being driven to the plane, they end up sitting in Y. I think people like these, no matter how they made HON, are much more of a hassle to FCL's than I would be. They probably fly Y all the time, and every time they pay just $99 for a ticket, but need special FCL attention.

AHN

Then how do they make HON?