Transit travel to/from India under the 'air bubble' agreements [ends 27 March 2022]
Sep 29, 2020, 4:23 am
#76
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,018
Based on her being a US GC and my late father being a US citizen and take the latter half the statement as equivalent to truth from Donald Trump mouth.
More of an off the record exception.
And once boarding passes were printed, nobody asked another question. However, they did decline boarding to spouse of H1b and and also another US GC holding couple
More of an off the record exception.
And once boarding passes were printed, nobody asked another question. However, they did decline boarding to spouse of H1b and and also another US GC holding coupleVery very useful info!
Sep 29, 2020, 6:22 am
#77
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,185
And LH just cancelled all flights to India on the day I was supposed to fly. Next try now is to DEL a day earlier than planned. So I will be able to report the latest developments in DEL arrivals
Sep 29, 2020, 7:32 am
#78
Join Date: May 2009
Programs: AA EXP HH GOLD EY GOLD
Posts: 340
Saying things like one of my flights was full and the other flight I took was empty and therefore AI is somehow cheating is absurd. Also, you're giving AI far more credit than they're due. They operate at the highest levels of governmental incompetency & bungling.
They did take advantage of the VBM flights initially but everyone caught on to it in a week or so after they started breaking the VBM rules. Today AI has zero competitive advantage in any international route over a local airline.
If they're flying full J to UK & US today - kudos to them - they've won that business. People could have traveled on UA or BA just as easily. Those airlines and others are allowed to fly just as many flights with the same pax categories as AI. Similarly for the ME - AI flies the same types of pax and is allowed the same number of flights as the ME3s. If people choose AI over ME3 then that's a real business win for AI. GoI hasn't in any way officially or unofficially discouraged people from flying non-AI flights to or from India.
As for the disinvestment - nobody is going to buy them. And neither is flying 20 extra "unfair" flights going to be more than a drop in the billions of dollars of debt they have.
They did take advantage of the VBM flights initially but everyone caught on to it in a week or so after they started breaking the VBM rules. Today AI has zero competitive advantage in any international route over a local airline.
If they're flying full J to UK & US today - kudos to them - they've won that business. People could have traveled on UA or BA just as easily. Those airlines and others are allowed to fly just as many flights with the same pax categories as AI. Similarly for the ME - AI flies the same types of pax and is allowed the same number of flights as the ME3s. If people choose AI over ME3 then that's a real business win for AI. GoI hasn't in any way officially or unofficially discouraged people from flying non-AI flights to or from India.
As for the disinvestment - nobody is going to buy them. And neither is flying 20 extra "unfair" flights going to be more than a drop in the billions of dollars of debt they have.
Regarding balance sheets, my bad I phrased it wrong, its more of revenue potential, which is a key aspect of any M&A, as any outstanding debt will be negotiated.
Also, the ME3 model and AI model is miles apart when it comes to traffic ex india and terminating in Gulf countries. ME3 load is more of transit via Gulf whereas AI is always Gulf as destination. So that's the advantage these guidelines provide AI, they opened up the AI market but restricted ME3 market.
BA, LH,AF also in same boat with lots of transit to Europe and NA, but thats also restricted due to these guidelines.
And for the record AI ran the repatriation flights scam for 2 months not week before US DoT served notice.
Last edited by DELANRDFW; Sep 29, 2020 at 9:52 am
Sep 29, 2020, 7:36 am
#79
Join Date: May 2009
Programs: AA EXP HH GOLD EY GOLD
Posts: 340
Question regarding transit in UK:
Since WB's restrictions on flights between CCU to/from DEL & BOM is nicely messing up my schedule, I may have to use the new CCU-LHR service (shudder) to get back home. United is happy to sell me CCU-LHR-MUC in Business for 63.5k points and a few $ in taxes, so it is an option... (I suppose I have get myself a tiffin carrier with food to take along)
The bubble trouble page says the following:
So it looks like this could be possible for me to use to get back to Germany?
Since WB's restrictions on flights between CCU to/from DEL & BOM is nicely messing up my schedule, I may have to use the new CCU-LHR service (shudder) to get back home. United is happy to sell me CCU-LHR-MUC in Business for 63.5k points and a few $ in taxes, so it is an option... (I suppose I have get myself a tiffin carrier with food to take along)
The bubble trouble page says the following:
So it looks like this could be possible for me to use to get back to Germany?
Sep 29, 2020, 11:09 pm
#80
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,185
Crazy times... India and Germany sign an agreeement, Lufthansa and AI restart flights they used to have. 6 weeks down the road, GoI realizes the 3-4 AI flights terminating in FRA from DEL and BLR with repatriation style service are not finding takers (surprise surprise), so they ask LH to reduce the weekly number of flights from 20 to 7. 
Sep 29, 2020, 11:39 pm
#81
Join Date: Jul 2017
Programs: KrisFlyer Gold, Marriott & SPG Plat, Hilton Gold, ShangriLa Jade, Enterprise Plat, Taj Gold
Posts: 3,345
I don’t think any of your arguments hold water...
Nobody I know has treated AI as a safe bet in these times. Even non-frequent travelers are aware of how difficult AI can be. There’s a reason why they have dropped market share faster than a sinking rock. LH’s cancellation is a great example of this - they want to do 20 flights while AI can just about manage to fill 5 planes a week.
A revenue potential which they enjoyed for a few weeks since they were forced to ensure reciprocity.
Termination cannot be a GoI mandate - it would be a UAE mandate. If GoI has so much leverage over UAE to be able to include a non transit clause in what is exclusively a UAE matter then it’s UAE’s fault that they’re such an easy push over.
That’s due to US & EU restrictions - AI did not advise either Trump or Brussels on this.
No that’s not true again. They relaxed the rules of travel during Unlock 2.0 or 3.0 or some such thing. Initially it was exclusively repatriation. Once that demand subsided they did change the rules to include regular travel and UA/AA/DL complained immediately to DoT. After DoT served them notice they got a few weeks during which they GoI allowed US flights to fly to India as well. At that time they were flying a handful of flights every week anyways so no it wouldn’t make a any real difference to AI’s top or bottom line.
Also, the ME3 model and AI model is miles apart when it comes to traffic ex india and terminating in Gulf countries. ME3 load is more of transit via Gulf whereas AI is always Gulf as destination. So that's the advantage these guidelines provide AI, they opened up the AI market but restricted ME3 market.
No that’s not true again. They relaxed the rules of travel during Unlock 2.0 or 3.0 or some such thing. Initially it was exclusively repatriation. Once that demand subsided they did change the rules to include regular travel and UA/AA/DL complained immediately to DoT. After DoT served them notice they got a few weeks during which they GoI allowed US flights to fly to India as well. At that time they were flying a handful of flights every week anyways so no it wouldn’t make a any real difference to AI’s top or bottom line.
Last edited by PiperAtGatesofDawn; Sep 29, 2020 at 11:48 pm
Sep 30, 2020, 12:36 am
#82
Join Date: May 2009
Programs: AA EXP HH GOLD EY GOLD
Posts: 340
I don’t think any of your arguments hold water...
Nobody I know has treated AI as a safe bet in these times. Even non-frequent travelers are aware of how difficult AI can be. There’s a reason why they have dropped market share faster than a sinking rock. LH’s cancellation is a great example of this - they want to do 20 flights while AI can just about manage to fill 5 planes a week.
A revenue potential which they enjoyed for a few weeks since they were forced to ensure reciprocity.
Termination cannot be a GoI mandate - it would be a UAE mandate. If GoI has so much leverage over UAE to be able to include a non transit clause in what is exclusively a UAE matter then it’s UAE’s fault that they’re such an easy push over.
That’s due to US & EU restrictions - AI did not advise either Trump or Brussels on this.
No that’s not true again. They relaxed the rules of travel during Unlock 2.0 or 3.0 or some such thing. Initially it was exclusively repatriation. Once that demand subsided they did change the rules to include regular travel and UA/AA/DL complained immediately to DoT. After DoT served them notice they got a few weeks during which they GoI allowed US flights to fly to India as well. At that time they were flying a handful of flights every week anyways so no it wouldn’t make a any real difference to AI’s top or bottom line.
Nobody I know has treated AI as a safe bet in these times. Even non-frequent travelers are aware of how difficult AI can be. There’s a reason why they have dropped market share faster than a sinking rock. LH’s cancellation is a great example of this - they want to do 20 flights while AI can just about manage to fill 5 planes a week.
A revenue potential which they enjoyed for a few weeks since they were forced to ensure reciprocity.
Termination cannot be a GoI mandate - it would be a UAE mandate. If GoI has so much leverage over UAE to be able to include a non transit clause in what is exclusively a UAE matter then it’s UAE’s fault that they’re such an easy push over.
That’s due to US & EU restrictions - AI did not advise either Trump or Brussels on this.
No that’s not true again. They relaxed the rules of travel during Unlock 2.0 or 3.0 or some such thing. Initially it was exclusively repatriation. Once that demand subsided they did change the rules to include regular travel and UA/AA/DL complained immediately to DoT. After DoT served them notice they got a few weeks during which they GoI allowed US flights to fly to India as well. At that time they were flying a handful of flights every week anyways so no it wouldn’t make a any real difference to AI’s top or bottom line.
Please explain and show me where other respective govts have established any guidelines ex India, they all point to civil aviation website.
US has no restriction on any traveler from India as long as they have a valid visa or are permanent residents, regardless of where they originate from.
Even European countries do not, except they do have a requirement of a mandatory quarantine on arrival from non-approved list but no restriction on transIt.
You do the math, AI starts VB flights May 7, GOI doesn't give permission to US carriers, US DOT serves them notice on June 22nd, GOI allows US carriers effective July 17th.
Its very easy to be dismissive from a keyboard, unless you have been on ground.
Last edited by DELANRDFW; Sep 30, 2020 at 12:46 am
Sep 30, 2020, 1:10 am
#83
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,185
Sorry to interrupt your discussion, but I have a question: now that LH has cancelled all flights to India, it might be that I have to fly AI to CCU via LHR. Does the bubble BS allow non UK citizens to transit in LHR? United.com will sell me an award MUC-LHR-CCU...
Sep 30, 2020, 5:14 am
#84
Join Date: Jul 2017
Programs: KrisFlyer Gold, Marriott & SPG Plat, Hilton Gold, ShangriLa Jade, Enterprise Plat, Taj Gold
Posts: 3,345
Sep 30, 2020, 7:46 am
#85
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,185
The MHA rules are all here: https://boi.gov.in/content/advisory-...ted-covid-19-1
Sep 30, 2020, 7:54 am
#86
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New York City
Programs: DL DM & 2MM; Marriott Titanium
Posts: 664
So, UK is gradually lifting 14-day quarantine measures for international travelers: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavi...exemption-list
I have previously heard that GoI might do the same as Diwali approaches. There were also plans to increase % of domestic flights. Of course, India's COVID situation is worse than UK, and no signs of improvement anytime soon.
I have previously heard that GoI might do the same as Diwali approaches. There were also plans to increase % of domestic flights. Of course, India's COVID situation is worse than UK, and no signs of improvement anytime soon.
Sep 30, 2020, 7:59 am
#87
Join Date: Jul 2017
Programs: KrisFlyer Gold, Marriott & SPG Plat, Hilton Gold, ShangriLa Jade, Enterprise Plat, Taj Gold
Posts: 3,345
The MHA rules are all here: https://boi.gov.in/content/advisory-...ted-covid-19-1
(iv) Students who are OCI cardholders where at least one of their parents is an Indian citizen or an 001 cardholder.
Sep 30, 2020, 2:41 pm
#88
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,185
I'm 007 with license to kill 
I think this applies to me:
I think this applies to me:
Vide MHA Order No. 25022/24/2020-F.V/F.I dated 07.08.2020
Visa & Travel restrictions in response to CO'VID-19 - Permitting certain categories of foreign nationals (including Overseas Citizen of India (OCI) Cardholders) to enter India and Indian nationals to visit other countries
The Government has further considered the need for relaxation of visa & travel restrictions for more categories of foreign nationals who want to travel to India and Indian nationals intending to visit other countries in the context of 'air bubble' scheme i.e. bilateral air travel arrangements worked out by the Ministry of Civil Aviation with USA, UK, Germany and FraLtpe and the countries that may be included under such scheme in future.
2. Accordingly, in respect of countries with which 'air bubble' scheme (bilateral air travel arrangements) have already been worked out i.e. USA, UK, Germany and France and the countries that may be included under such scheme in future, it has been decided as follows:-
(a) In partial modification to this Ministry's G.M. of even number dated 30.06.020, all Overseas Citizen of India (OCI) Cardholders holding passports of such countries are permitted to enter India.
Visa & Travel restrictions in response to CO'VID-19 - Permitting certain categories of foreign nationals (including Overseas Citizen of India (OCI) Cardholders) to enter India and Indian nationals to visit other countries
The Government has further considered the need for relaxation of visa & travel restrictions for more categories of foreign nationals who want to travel to India and Indian nationals intending to visit other countries in the context of 'air bubble' scheme i.e. bilateral air travel arrangements worked out by the Ministry of Civil Aviation with USA, UK, Germany and FraLtpe and the countries that may be included under such scheme in future.
2. Accordingly, in respect of countries with which 'air bubble' scheme (bilateral air travel arrangements) have already been worked out i.e. USA, UK, Germany and France and the countries that may be included under such scheme in future, it has been decided as follows:-
(a) In partial modification to this Ministry's G.M. of even number dated 30.06.020, all Overseas Citizen of India (OCI) Cardholders holding passports of such countries are permitted to enter India.
Sep 30, 2020, 11:26 pm
#89
Join Date: May 2009
Programs: AA EXP HH GOLD EY GOLD
Posts: 340
As usual make the official language so twisted that its easy to confuse a commoner....lol
And this is with every govt in world, US, UK, etc.
I'm trying to make sense whys Indian govt restricting outbound traffic, makes sense to control inbound and totally valid.
This is a good source of restrictions for inbound and outbound travel ex India by specific air bubble countries.
And this is with every govt in world, US, UK, etc.
I'm trying to make sense whys Indian govt restricting outbound traffic, makes sense to control inbound and totally valid.
This is a good source of restrictions for inbound and outbound travel ex India by specific air bubble countries.
Sep 30, 2020, 11:43 pm
#90
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,185
This is a good source of restrictions for inbound and outbound travel ex India by specific air bubble countries.
Of course it doesn't say if a OCI from a bubble land can fly into India from a different bubble land, which I will attempt to do this weekend
I'm confident it is allowed because I know US OCIs have flown into India on BA/AF/LH.
Last edited by oliver2002; Sep 30, 2020 at 11:50 pm