Transit travel to/from India under the 'air bubble' agreements [ends 27 March 2022]
Oct 11, 2020, 7:17 am
#151
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As expected the MOCA is upset about the 6th freedom rights that the EU3 are excercising. What they forget is that LH is in revenue sharing with AC & UA so it has the rights to to transport pax from the US & CA to India as these fall under the India-US/CA bubble. What aim for is the same deal they made with Germany in 2006: if AI cannot utilize the parity frequencies, they can barter them to LH in return for 50-100 seats on every LH flight. AI minted money that way in 2006-15. They extended the deal to ZRH and VIE, the latter of which they even operated for OS.
Basically India and Germany need to renegotiate the bilaterals and not pretend to organize repatriation bubbles. I'm pretty certain AI is also declaring the AI 11xx flights are ad hoc repatriation flights to get a break on the cost of the overflying rights that are pretty expensive for scheduled flights.
Basically India and Germany need to renegotiate the bilaterals and not pretend to organize repatriation bubbles. I'm pretty certain AI is also declaring the AI 11xx flights are ad hoc repatriation flights to get a break on the cost of the overflying rights that are pretty expensive for scheduled flights.
Also, glad you made it back! Hope you had a successful trip to CCU.
Oct 11, 2020, 8:17 pm
#152
Join Date: Oct 2009
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As expected the MOCA is upset about the 6th freedom rights that the EU3 are excercising. What they forget is that LH is in revenue sharing with AC & UA so it has the rights to to transport pax from the US & CA to India as these fall under the India-US/CA bubble. What aim for is the same deal they made with Germany in 2006: if AI cannot utilize the parity frequencies, they can barter them to LH in return for 50-100 seats on every LH flight. AI minted money that way in 2006-15. They extended the deal to ZRH and VIE, the latter of which they even operated for OS.
Basically India and Germany need to renegotiate the bilaterals and not pretend to organize repatriation bubbles. I'm pretty certain AI is also declaring the AI 11xx flights are ad hoc repatriation flights to get a break on the cost of the overflying rights that are pretty expensive for scheduled flights.
Basically India and Germany need to renegotiate the bilaterals and not pretend to organize repatriation bubbles. I'm pretty certain AI is also declaring the AI 11xx flights are ad hoc repatriation flights to get a break on the cost of the overflying rights that are pretty expensive for scheduled flights.
Oct 12, 2020, 12:04 am
#153
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Yes, the EU3 were all selling 6th freedom connections because the bubble agreement is not specific enough. The ME3 are not because the bubble agreement was specific.
Oct 12, 2020, 4:10 am
#154
Join Date: Feb 2015
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For OCI's, they now mention something like "UK passport holders with OCI card" can board flights to/from India.
Oct 12, 2020, 4:18 am
#155
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The govt. has started cracking down on people connecting onwards... LH & KL got a scolding for that... BA might be next on the list.
Oct 12, 2020, 7:32 am
#156
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i'm wondering just how big this segment is right now....entry into usa via europe is pretty much restricted to citizens & legal permanent residents & a few select others....i would think that the number of people who were flying to usa from india via europe would have been extremely small....
Oct 12, 2020, 7:59 am
#157
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The EU3 all have their respective tie ups with the US3, so they are routing US and CA pax thru their hubs and insisting it is legal as they can be counted to be customers of the US3 who have a bubble deal.
I suppose this is all in prep for the diwali traffic. If the decision to hold Durga Puja in WB as in normal times is an indicator, I'm sure the Modi govt wants to allow Diwali travel to appease their base. Of course the NRI/PIO Indians are supposed to come to India on VB flights where they are treated like cattle and fed from a box while paying non market prices.
I suppose this is all in prep for the diwali traffic. If the decision to hold Durga Puja in WB as in normal times is an indicator, I'm sure the Modi govt wants to allow Diwali travel to appease their base. Of course the NRI/PIO Indians are supposed to come to India on VB flights where they are treated like cattle and fed from a box while paying non market prices.
Oct 12, 2020, 12:35 pm
#158
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Oct 13, 2020, 12:27 am
#159
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Well, I doubt they can touch BA as agreement clearly states that foreign nationals could be transiting via UK. Exact wording here, "Stranded UK nationals/residents, foreign nationals transiting through UK or spouses of these persons, whether accompanying or otherwise;"
Whereas agreement with Germany says, passengers can transit but need to be destined for Europe
Hence the ruckus with Germany.
Whereas agreement with Germany says, passengers can transit but need to be destined for Europe
Hence the ruckus with Germany.
Oct 13, 2020, 12:50 am
#160
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i was speaking with an af/kl representative the other day who claimed that after the initial rush when international flights first re-started, the number of passengers transiting from india - usa via cdg/ams were & continued to be minuscule....then goi started huffing & puffing & threatened to blow the bubble away....
Oct 13, 2020, 1:25 am
#161
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A Munich Airport Forum I read someone mentioned that on the DEL-MUC flights 70% continued on to other destinations, mostly to US/CA.
The consumer had/has a choice: fly AI point to point with substandard service and high price or with one of the foreign airlines that seem to be fine with competing on price and service. The GoI needs to accept that we are not in the 70s anymore ... misusing a crisis to undo liberalizations done over three decades (that benefitted the consumer) is cray cray.
The consumer had/has a choice: fly AI point to point with substandard service and high price or with one of the foreign airlines that seem to be fine with competing on price and service. The GoI needs to accept that we are not in the 70s anymore ... misusing a crisis to undo liberalizations done over three decades (that benefitted the consumer) is cray cray.
Oct 13, 2020, 1:41 am
#162
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The consumer had/has a choice: fly AI point to point with substandard service and high price or with one of the foreign airlines that seem to be fine with competing on price and service. The GoI needs to accept that we are not in the 70s anymore ... misusing a crisis to undo liberalizations done over three decades (that benefitted the consumer) is cray cray.
either way, maybe they can resolve things before my flight at the end of the month....i've got my fingers crossed but given the speed of how goi operates, i'm not very hopeful....
Oct 13, 2020, 3:59 am
#163
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it doesn't seem to be....there are others issues at play here....
i was speaking with an af/kl representative the other day who claimed that after the initial rush when international flights first re-started, the number of passengers transiting from india - usa via cdg/ams were & continued to be minuscule....then goi started huffing & puffing & threatened to blow the bubble away....
i was speaking with an af/kl representative the other day who claimed that after the initial rush when international flights first re-started, the number of passengers transiting from india - usa via cdg/ams were & continued to be minuscule....then goi started huffing & puffing & threatened to blow the bubble away....
The problem must be significantly worse on the inbound flights - where of course GoI has little leverage - and can't make any rules to ban Indian citizens in NA returning through EU or anywhere else. So they're pressuring the EU3 to stop with bookings both ways - painting them in worse light on the outbounds.
Oct 13, 2020, 4:09 am
#164
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Given it's almost all business or repatriation and no tourism.... I can't imagine too many people flying to Germany or France (even if it is to get entry to EU) vs. going to the US. I don't have any hard data of course but it would either mean that the BOM/DEL/BLR - FRA/MUC flights are going empty (which I don't think is the case because of how keen they are to operate 20 flights a week) or they are connecting to NA. So there there must be a sizeable US/CA citizens and PRs to justify that traffic.
The problem must be significantly worse on the inbound flights - where of course GoI has little leverage - and can't make any rules to ban Indian citizens in NA returning through EU or anywhere else. So they're pressuring the EU3 to stop with bookings both ways - painting them in worse light on the outbounds.
The problem must be significantly worse on the inbound flights - where of course GoI has little leverage - and can't make any rules to ban Indian citizens in NA returning through EU or anywhere else. So they're pressuring the EU3 to stop with bookings both ways - painting them in worse light on the outbounds.
Oct 13, 2020, 4:12 am
#165
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no flights for the time being is hurting both lh & ai....ai managed to take advance with vande bharat flights (since they were the only ones flying at that point) & lh managed to take advantage of sixth freedom flights (since hardly anyone wanted to fly ai)....i just hope they can sort this out soon....