Air India and the Star Alliance (Part II)
Jul 27, 2011, 11:33 pm
#121
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totally agree.
I see something like this in star alliance/AI future:
July 31 - Star Alliance extends AI's deadline to Sept 30.
Aug-Sept - AI has more problems
Oct - Star alliance says no to AI
Nov - Govt bails AI out
July 2012 - Star Alliance invites Jet to join the alliance
Dec 2012 - Jet joins star alliance
Jan 1/2013- I start getting all my status miles on Star Alliance using Jet!!
I see something like this in star alliance/AI future:
July 31 - Star Alliance extends AI's deadline to Sept 30.
Aug-Sept - AI has more problems
Oct - Star alliance says no to AI
Nov - Govt bails AI out
July 2012 - Star Alliance invites Jet to join the alliance
Dec 2012 - Jet joins star alliance
Jan 1/2013- I start getting all my status miles on Star Alliance using Jet!!
Jul 28, 2011, 3:46 am
#122
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I'd say its a bit of both. Though a "sweeper" earning 23k/month is likely someone who's been there for a fair few years, and the 23k includes his basic salary plus various allowances that make up the salary in India.
(Allowances - TA/DA and other legit allowances, which for some reason are classed differently in the pay summary).
(Allowances - TA/DA and other legit allowances, which for some reason are classed differently in the pay summary).
Indian isn't cheap anymore. Managers who used to be on 25k a year a few years ago now earn close to 1L.
Petrol used to be 30 odd rupees now its touching 72!!
Jul 28, 2011, 4:05 am
#123
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i still remember my first job when i got out of law school....it was with pepsi & my salary was inr 5k a month....now, the fresh recruits straight out of law school are getting a salary of inr 50k a month or more....
Jul 28, 2011, 6:40 am
#124
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It's far worse than that and has been for a number of years.
Not only has the shareholder been unable/unwilling to take the smart decisions to restructure profitably, but they have also taken the wrong decisions that hindered any chance of possible recovery.
Air India is, in simple terms, doomed. The only question is when and how ugly is it going to be.
Not only has the shareholder been unable/unwilling to take the smart decisions to restructure profitably, but they have also taken the wrong decisions that hindered any chance of possible recovery.
Air India is, in simple terms, doomed. The only question is when and how ugly is it going to be.
Jul 28, 2011, 6:44 am
#125
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It's far worse than that and has been for a number of years.
Not only has the shareholder been unable/unwilling to take the smart decisions to restructure profitably, but they have also taken the wrong decisions that hindered any chance of possible recovery.
Air India is, in simple terms, doomed. The only question is when and how ugly is it going to be.
Not only has the shareholder been unable/unwilling to take the smart decisions to restructure profitably, but they have also taken the wrong decisions that hindered any chance of possible recovery.
Air India is, in simple terms, doomed. The only question is when and how ugly is it going to be.
Jul 28, 2011, 6:51 am
#126
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Why would anybody in their sane minds want to buy it? Air India is not a viable business. The structure is rotten, the brand is eroded and even the employees are no longer an asset but a liability. It is a black hole of entitlement culture at all levels and has no incentive or willingness to change.
Jul 28, 2011, 7:47 am
#127
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Especially since 9W, IT and others have shown that you can start an airline from scratch and take it pretty far in a relatively short time.
Jul 28, 2011, 7:56 am
#128
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Its not that excessive you know. I have a sweeper who has been with me for 15 years now and is on 15k now. Salaries in Mumbai are probably twice what I pay anyway.
Indian isn't cheap anymore. Managers who used to be on 25k a year a few years ago now earn close to 1L.
Petrol used to be 30 odd rupees now its touching 72!!
Indian isn't cheap anymore. Managers who used to be on 25k a year a few years ago now earn close to 1L.
Petrol used to be 30 odd rupees now its touching 72!!
Jul 28, 2011, 8:18 am
#129
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DL and AF had considered a joint bid, but never submitted one.
With about $25 billion (INR 100,000 crores) in liability, who would buy the airline?
If you had the money, how much would you pay for it?
Would you take it over for $1?
Last edited by Yaatri; Jul 28, 2011 at 8:36 am
Jul 28, 2011, 8:51 am
#132
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We should all remember that NW, DL and even UA were able to restructure, and even discard some of their liability legally under bankruptcy plans.
UA is no longer liable for its pension obligations, which are to be met by PBGC. NW plan stiffed shareholders and still was able to issue new equity. I am do not recall details of DL's plan. AF, BA and LH have been backed by their Govs in the past too.
Maybe Keyser can comment on this. What kind of restructuring is possible for AI? What portion of debt involves pension and equity? Other debt could be restructured to reasonable levels by guaranteeing a certain percentage on the dollar and AI could become attractive to a buyer.
UA is no longer liable for its pension obligations, which are to be met by PBGC. NW plan stiffed shareholders and still was able to issue new equity. I am do not recall details of DL's plan. AF, BA and LH have been backed by their Govs in the past too.
Maybe Keyser can comment on this. What kind of restructuring is possible for AI? What portion of debt involves pension and equity? Other debt could be restructured to reasonable levels by guaranteeing a certain percentage on the dollar and AI could become attractive to a buyer.
Jul 28, 2011, 11:55 am
#133
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We should all remember that NW, DL and even UA were able to restructure, and even discard some of their liability legally under bankruptcy plans.
UA is no longer liable for its pension obligations, which are to be met by PBGC. NW plan stiffed shareholders and still was able to issue new equity. I am do not recall details of DL's plan. AF, BA and LH have been backed by their Govs in the past too.
Maybe Keyser can comment on this. What kind of restructuring is possible for AI? What portion of debt involves pension and equity? Other debt could be restructured to reasonable levels by guaranteeing a certain percentage on the dollar and AI could become attractive to a buyer.
UA is no longer liable for its pension obligations, which are to be met by PBGC. NW plan stiffed shareholders and still was able to issue new equity. I am do not recall details of DL's plan. AF, BA and LH have been backed by their Govs in the past too.
Maybe Keyser can comment on this. What kind of restructuring is possible for AI? What portion of debt involves pension and equity? Other debt could be restructured to reasonable levels by guaranteeing a certain percentage on the dollar and AI could become attractive to a buyer.
), prayers and a miracle (we have enuff godmen for this) what about the political will to take this decision? the govt has been on the defensive and IMHO they dont hv the b@lls to pull this one off(though the timing cant be better with elections not due until 2014, complete this activity quickly by end of 2012 and by mid 2013 this is forgotten in time for the elections!)
Jul 28, 2011, 12:12 pm
#134
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i've been trying my level best to stay out of this discussion....
given the current situation i don't think ai would be attractive for any buyer....
keep in mind that the UP elections are just around the corner & given the problems with the 2g & commonwealth games scams, the state is keeping a close watch on what the government is doing in delhi....mayawati & mulayam would just love to blame the government for anything else just in time for the elections....
assuming the finances are put into place with debt restructuring (Keyser on appointed the committee ), prayers and a miracle (we have enuff godmen for this) what about the political will to take this decision? the govt has been on the defensive and IMHO they dont hv the b@lls to pull this one off
(though the timing cant be better with elections not due until 2014, complete this activity quickly by end of 2012 and by mid 2013 this is forgotten in time for the elections!)
), prayers and a miracle (we have enuff godmen for this) what about the political will to take this decision? the govt has been on the defensive and IMHO they dont hv the b@lls to pull this one off(though the timing cant be better with elections not due until 2014, complete this activity quickly by end of 2012 and by mid 2013 this is forgotten in time for the elections!)
Jul 28, 2011, 2:00 pm
#135
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http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/b...ow/9400233.cms
The aviation ministry, however, is putting up a brave front. Senior officials said the world's second largest alliance after Star, Air France-KLM-led SkyTeam, has approached them for inducting AI as a member. The only other major global alliance, British Airways-led One World, has already announced Kingfisher as a future member. "If Star Alliance acts pricey, we have options. Star had committed to taking AI as a member and not doing so will not go down well," said one official.
An unexpected turn of events. So now AF might be the first airline to get approval for A380 ops into India.
The aviation ministry, however, is putting up a brave front. Senior officials said the world's second largest alliance after Star, Air France-KLM-led SkyTeam, has approached them for inducting AI as a member. The only other major global alliance, British Airways-led One World, has already announced Kingfisher as a future member. "If Star Alliance acts pricey, we have options. Star had committed to taking AI as a member and not doing so will not go down well," said one official.
An unexpected turn of events. So now AF might be the first airline to get approval for A380 ops into India.