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Air India and the Star Alliance (Part II)

Air India and the Star Alliance (Part II)

Old Jul 24, 2011, 6:18 pm
  #91  
 
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Originally Posted by flyjet787
You talk as if you really know these two airlines very well huh.. You know KF has a policy that the commanders son/daughter/nephew etc. have priority over anyone else. There are ex-air force chaps in KF who have been flying on the RHS for 3-4 yrs with 3000hrs on type waiting for their command and in the mean while captains sons who have flown for 1-2 yrs with 1500 hrs on type are being given command ahead of the air force chaps. No wonder they keep leaving KF and join 6E. And Jet. Well even they have a few guys who can get the job done under the table. Although in Jet you really need to have very high level of influence to get you through not like KF where if your dad is a capt the son will also get in. Spice and Go-Air has a 1+1 offer. If a capt joins them he can bring along his relative. Indigo. Their recruitment is out sourced to CAE. So there are a handful of people handling the recruitment of hundreds of pilots for their ever growing fleet. They made a S**T load of money and will continue to do so for the next couple of years.
You know what is ironic. Air India probably has the least dodgy stuff happening on the HR front, especially relative to someone like Kingfisher whose recruitment seems to be run like a Bollywood casting couch. With all the SC/ST/OBC reservations and political quotas, Air India doesnt have as many jobs for the boys to go around as the private carriers do. And I speak from firsthand knowledge as the offspring of TWO ex-Air India employees.
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Old Jul 25, 2011, 8:11 am
  #92  
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With the culture of nepotism that thrives in India, I don't see why private businesses would be immune from it. In many cases Government run organisations are run better at some level, not necessarily over all.
The Government has well established merit based selection programmes through UPSC. While in itself, it can not ensure fairness and efficiency, private organisations and businesses may not even have that.

I can see why, what B7480437B is saying is true.

Most people in India, whether a Government employee, or not, usually siphons off something for him/herself in one form or another. Taking advantage of one's position is a matter of pride, in India. What I find ironic is that people complain and call for campaign against corruption, but are not willing to give it up themselves.
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Old Jul 25, 2011, 11:07 am
  #93  
 
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Originally Posted by Yaatri
Most people in India, whether a Government employee, or not, usually siphons off something for him/herself in one form or another. Taking advantage of one's position is a matter of pride, in India. What I find ironic is that people complain and call for campaign against corruption, but are not willing to give it up themselves.
I have to agree - the sad part is those of us that continue to condone corruption by sponsoring it. We are just as guilty as the recepient of such corruption.
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Old Jul 25, 2011, 12:10 pm
  #94  
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Originally Posted by avm2806
I have to agree - the sad part is those of us that continue to condone corruption by sponsoring it. We are just as guilty as the recepient of such corruption.
Its a catch 22. If you don't then you don't get anywhere and if you do then you are sponsoring it.

I have to admit though its very hard to get work done by any government dept without showing the money.
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Old Jul 25, 2011, 6:13 pm
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I know this is more like counting the chicks before the eggs hatch, but if the *A admission is approved by when do folks think we will be able to start redeeming seats on AI?
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Old Jul 25, 2011, 7:22 pm
  #96  
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Originally Posted by Cheerfulflyer
I know this is more like counting the chicks before the eggs hatch, but if the *A admission is approved by when do folks think we will be able to start redeeming seats on AI?
My crystal ball is not in a position to tell me anything. All I can say is there are four more working days for AI to satisfy *A officials, that it has met all the requirements necessary to join the star community.
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Old Jul 26, 2011, 6:46 am
  #97  
 
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Originally Posted by B747-437B
You know what is ironic. Air India probably has the least dodgy stuff happening on the HR front, especially relative to someone like Kingfisher whose recruitment seems to be run like a Bollywood casting couch. With all the SC/ST/OBC reservations and political quotas, Air India doesnt have as many jobs for the boys to go around as the private carriers do. And I speak from firsthand knowledge as the offspring of TWO ex-Air India employees.
Ironic, absolutely, and very very true! I am sure you and I can come up with a long list of flight deck kith and kin in foreign/other airlines who never got a look-in to AI recruitment ..... I dont know about cabin crew but I think the same applies...
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Old Jul 26, 2011, 7:59 am
  #98  
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Originally Posted by lallyr
Its a catch 22. If you don't then you don't get anywhere and if you do then you are sponsoring it.

I have to admit though its very hard to get work done by any government dept without showing the money.
I don't want to turn this into a debate on corruption in India. I just want to say that there is a price to pay if you choose to fight corruption. It's not as expedient to pay the price of fighting.
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Old Jul 26, 2011, 8:23 am
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Originally Posted by rathin100
Ironic, absolutely, and very very true! I am sure you and I can come up with a long list of flight deck kith and kin in foreign/other airlines who never got a look-in to AI recruitment ..... I dont know about cabin crew but I think the same applies...
Kith and kin with any self respect would not want to get involved with Air India to begin with IMHO.
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Old Jul 26, 2011, 9:05 am
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Originally Posted by B747-437B
Kith and kin with any self respect would not want to get involved with Air India to begin with IMHO.


I had a great flight with them NYC-DEL recently i must say, brought back nostalgia for the good times. You have to take your hat (or topi) off to the long suffering good performers in AIC; I was also pleased to see some young blood, doing their job well.
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Old Jul 26, 2011, 12:07 pm
  #101  
 
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Safety, maintenance row may stall AIs Star Alliance entry

Safety, maintenance row may stall AIs Star Alliance entry

New Delhi: Star Alliance CEO Jaan Albrecht has expressed fear that some of the member airlines may raise objections to Air India joining the global airline grouping as and when the proposal comes before the executive committee for approval. The CEO has based his concerns on a series of letters written by Air India's employees in which they have allegedly said that the airline is compromising on safety and maintenance in the face of liquidity crunch.

Star Alliance CEO met the aviation secretary and the Air India CMD Arvind Jadhav last week and said that some of the alliance members may raise objections to the airlines entry blaming it on pilots' letters, official sources said.

As per the official, the Star Alliance boss stressed that there was every likelihood of member CEOs vetoing Air India's entry.

An Air India official, however termed the pilots allegations as baseless and motivated saying the airline would join Star Alliance shortly.

We have complied with all the mandatory requirements for joining the carrier, the official said adding the aviation ministry has termed the issues allegedly raised by pilots as irrelevant.

The 27-member Star Alliance had given Air India July 31 deadline for meeting nearly 78 conditions for being eligible to join it. The airline's entry has already been delayed by nearly 18 months, resulting into loss of business opportunity.

Star Alliance had in December 2007 invited Air India to join the worlds biggest airline club but factors like delay in having a single code for erstwhile Indian Airlines and Air India and migration to an integrated passenger reservation system caused the flag carrier to miss the deadline.

Air Indias integration with Star Alliance member network would increase its revenue by 10-15% annually. It would also help the carrier reduce cost as it would share airport infrastructure like lounge and hanger with Star Alliance members.

After joining the airline grouping, Air India will be able to provide seamless travel to its customers.

Passengers would be able to travel from one of the continent to another on single boarding pass. All the Star Alliance members together operate in 181 countries with 21,000 daily departures.


http://www.financialexpress.com/news...entry/822792/0

This is not good.
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Old Jul 26, 2011, 12:23 pm
  #102  
 
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I noticed some under-the-hood changes in AI's reservations system. A few weeks ago you could not look for ORD-CCU flights; you had to enter it as multiple segments ORD-DEL and DEL-CCU. Now ORD-CCU works. Also you can now select seats even for the domestic segments (at least in executive class), whereas a few weeks ago you could only do it for the international segments.

None of this means that *A will admit AI. All it means is that, as with the Commonwealth Games and everything else, there is a sudden rush at the last minute to come up to international standards.
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Old Jul 26, 2011, 8:38 pm
  #103  
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If *A executive committee finds pilots' allegations regarding safety credible, it must act on that information and deny AI entry. If it does not, it would be derelict in its responsibility.

While AI might be guilty of safety violations, pilots allegations alone don't prove that it was/has been/is. Pilots writing letters to *A is indicative of a tactic designed to put pressure on the airline. If the pilots witnessed safety violations, the proper thing to do would be to write to regulatory authorities who have the power to enforce safety rules. It's clearly an attempt to take the fight against the management to another level, to people, with little power except preventing AI's entry to. Would all violations miraculously disappear if management gave in to pilots' demands? Pilots know that joining the alliance is good for the airline, it badly wants to join the alliance, IMHO, this is their last ditch effort to blackmail the airline. Conversely, would pilots be happy, better off, if the airline was not allowed to join the alliance?

If I ran the airline, I would investigate pilots allegations, rectify the violations, punish those responsible for the violations, if allegations were true, and fire the pilots who wrote to the *A, if the allegations were malefic.

Last edited by Yaatri; Jul 27, 2011 at 3:08 pm
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Old Jul 27, 2011, 2:43 am
  #104  
 
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Originally Posted by Yaatri
Would all violations miraculously disappear if management gave in to pilots' demands?
No, but the pilots' objections to the violations would miraculously disappear.
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Old Jul 27, 2011, 3:15 pm
  #105  
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Originally Posted by B747-437B
No, but the pilots' objections to the violations would miraculously disappear.
Shhhhh. You weren't supposed to say it.

Personally, I think, it's in very poor taste to go and whine to Star Alliance.

There is a chain of command, however ineffective it might be. If one is to believe, that the only avenue open to someone who witnesses safety violation(s) is to go to some agency outside the country, what it means is that no Indian agency of the GoI is capable of maintaining safety and enforcing regulations in the country. And by corollary no airline from India can be considered safe. So Albrecht would get the latter of his two wishes "two airlines or none".

When addressing problems within an organisation, proper chain of command should be followed. The pilots are guilty of at least gross insubordination. Do they think Gora masters can help them?
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