Yaatri

Without getting into a debate on the economics of selling bilateral rights, I have to say that while selling unused rights could be short sighted, but if I the rights are sitting idle, it might not be such a bad idea. provided it's done on a contingent basis and on terms that have to be renegotiated every few years. AI has never used its frequencies under bilateral with Netherlands and allowed KLM to use its frequencies in the past. It has also allowed SU to use its unused frequencies.
If that claim/assessment is correct, then it's no reason for LH to support AI's admission into Star Alliance. Is LH only going through the motions, teasing AI, with no intentions of letting AI score?

I agree with the this. It's quite obvious that operating A380 on such a short route is silly.

Yaatri

I quite agree with the most of your post except, what star alliance gets and wants out of AI is one thing but what LH gets and wants out of AI is yet quite another, which, I think, is the reason why some star members are opposing AI's entry.

Yaatri

Almost all U.S. carriers, including US,UA, AA and Co published fares to Indian cities, when DL was the only airline with frequencies to India. Existence of a published fare means little.

B747-437B

Captive point of sale.

AI also provides feed to Air France, British Airways, Delta and everyone else.

By locking in Air India, Star Alliance gets the best SPAs and importantly, the foothold in the growth market POS. He who controls the first sector, controls the revenue. If the growth is in Tier 3 cities, the plating carrier is usually the carrier serving the Tier 3. That has huge ramifications on cashflow and leverage for SPAs.

It's network planning 101.

flyjet787

Efforts on to keep Air India’s date with Star Alliance

http://www.mydigitalfc.com/news/effo...r-alliance-256

Officials of civil aviation ministry and Air India met Star Alliance executives here on Friday ahead of a crucial board meeting of the 27-airline grouping to decide on the entry of the Indian national carrie into the alliance. Officials were tightlipped on the outcome, but indicated that the meeting would continue on Saturday.

A vote on Air India’s entry into Star alliance is expected to take place on Sunday. But indications are that some members in the alliance were opposed to the entry of Air India in view of the open skys policy of the government. Dominant members of the Star Alliance include Lufthansa, Air China, United Air Lines and Air Canada.

But ministry of civil aviation officials said that the carrier had options of joining other international alliances. This was especially in view of threats made by Star Alliance that they could withdraw the invitation to Air India.

Now we know why some members are opposed. They want the Govt to give them more access to Indian airports. If the Govt does oblige I guess AI can take another decade to fulfill the requirements and *A will be waiting to welcome them with open arms.

kiwiandrew

I don't know why people seem so determined to find ulterior motives for some *A members being prepared to veto AI. Isn't it enough that they are simply still not ready after being an incredibly generous length of time? Why does there have to be a conspiracy behind the disinclination to take on a member who is not operationally ready to join the alliance?

flyjet787

Because not being ready by the deadline is probably not the reason or *A carriers are trying to make the most of the situation and force the Govt to grant them more access to Indian airports or what ever they want. Under the current circumstances *A can certainly tell AI.. "You're not ready so we will not accept you". But if the Govt of India put an attractive offer on the table would the members reconsider their decision to vote against AI? Or maybe the Govts threat to not let any other Indian carrier join *A going to influence the members vote? Boy, I can't wait till monday

Yaatri

That, this has all the elements of intrigue and horse trading and AI's incompetence are two separate issues which are not mutually exclusive.

Why is LH hung up on AI if they have not been ready for 4 years? LH could have walked away any time. Clearly it's a quid pro quo situation and the issue of qualifications is secondary. Had it not been so, AI would have been dumped long ago. Language used by *A CEO"two alliances or none" and retaliatory language used by AI is posturing with both sides, leaving lots of room for speculation and little for the real issue, AI's qualification.

Yaatri

This is significant. Don't you think this is a stupid reason kiwiandrew? Why should anyone be upset about open skies policy unless they are unhappy with competition.
Isn't free trade good? Do the Star Alliance members want to shut every one else out? Don't you think this is a stupid reason kiwiandrew?

B747-437B

This is India. Failure is never due to one's own shortcomings but rather due to some conspiracy hatched by those more privileged (or talented) than oneself.

If no such bogeyman exists, blame Pakistan.

UA Fan

or UK

Yaatri

You can parse my posts to make it look like what was neither said, nor implied. I have stated in the beginning, that it's not Ai is being picked on, but it's a tactic. Why would the big chief make a statement "Two alliance or none", after courting AI for nearly 4 years? I have also never denied that AI has failed. There is a voting procedure to vote AI in or out. Albrecht has taken the fight to the street, juts like AI pilots took their fight to star alliance. Such behaviour on the part of * chief is indicative of posturing.
When I made a conjecture about which airlines might vote against AI, I not only admitted of the possibility of my conjecture being all wrong, but said nothing that you or anyone could take as portraying AI being picked on, unless you have not read my post in entirety, misunderstood it, or are convinced of your pre-conceived notion that I have said that AI is being picked on.

Why would SN, LX or OS vote against AI when LH wants AI in? Proxy for LH is simple answer. When information,such as opposition by certain unnamed airlines is leaked out, there is a reason for that. Improving one's position in the bargaining game. Your mind is set in concrete , that's why you continue to insist that other star members are being blamed for AI's problems, when they are not. All I have done is attempt to guess which airlines might vote against AI's entry. Executive committee could have met as scheduled, voted on AI's entry and declared AI a winner or a loser, without getting into this game of chess with GoI.
I am going to state again. All members of an alliance don't have identical interests. THey have shared interests. What's good for LH alone, might not be good for every member of the alliance. LH has tried to turn AI's clout with GoI in its favour. Other airlines, who see LH dominating the India market could resent LH's dominance. Thwy can protect their interest by keeping AI out. So, my dear kiwiandrew, nowhere have I said, what you have tried to put in my mouth. I quite agree that AI has been given many chances which it has squandered and had it been some other airline, it might have been told to go away. Threats such as "two airlines or none" are also unique to this situation. MH was also kept in limbo by skyteam, while members like NW vascillated. MH eventually got tired of skyteam's games and went to one world.While MH's wait was protracted, there were no public threats involved.
Now repeat after me, "What's going on is not victimisation of AI, but horse trading and bargaining through proxy and public posturing which has involved finnacial staus of the airline when that really has never been an issue. It's an issue for Indian taxpayers, not for Star Alliance.

Yaatri

Oh come on B747-437B. You know I have never said any such thing. It's simple posturing.

Yaatri

Or ISI, CIA, KGB, MI5, MI6, and Mossad. Oh and Tea party, Birthers, neo-cons, Dick Cheney. Osama, too.

Yaatri

The only conspiracy that exists is in your mind. Have I said AI is ready, and is being targeted?