Cheerfulflyer

Mumbai, New Delhi, July 28:

Air India's induction into Star Alliance now hangs in balance. Sources indicated on Thursday that some of the 27 members of Star Alliance are opposed to Air India joining the global airline alliance. [More on: http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/...homepage=true].

This does NOT look good for AI.

kiwiandrew

I think the official would do well to note that both sides made commitments. AI has yet to honour those commitments nearly 4 years after the original announcement that they would be a future member of *A.

*A has shown incredible patience and flexibility, giving AI breathing space after breathing space, and letting them keep trying as deadline after deadline was missed ...it is a bit rich after all this time to suggest that *A has not upheld their commitment to AI.

B747-437B

Air India has been defaulting on pension obligations for the better part of the last decade. They unilaterally switched retired staff RETROACTIVELY from defined benefit to defined contribution plans in 2002. The staff eventually sued (Full disclosure : I provided consultation services to the retired staff association at the time) and the matter went all the way up to the Supreme Court (as Kuriakose Cherian et al. v Air India Employees Self Contributory Superannuation Pension Scheme). Air India lost every appeal but failed to comply even with the Supreme Court's orders.

UA Fan

Yes, you do, and please shut the door on your way out.

SQ421

KingFisher in OneWorld
Air India in SkyTeam
Jet in Star Alliance

win win for most, I see

rathin100

^^

rathin100

Amen to that... incidentally I thought you /AI pensioners had got an enforcement order (incl asset attachment etc)? Am i misinformed?

UA Fan

They better hurry up, there may not be many assets lying around soon.

Yaatri

I am not saying whether debt can be restructured or not. It all depends on what is allowed under the law. The point I was making is that we don't know how much UA was drowning, or whether it would have been able to survive had it not been given extraordinary help through bankruptcy proceedings. It was scandalous in my opinion that the airliner promised retirement benefits but never put the money in the pension fund. NW was able wipe off shareholders equity off its balance sheet. I am not talking about miracles, so no prayers or godmen are needed. What I am talking about is assessing the magnitude of the problem, in comparison with what UA/DL/NW faced when they went through bankruptcy.
To be fare, AI should be allowed what UA was allowed. When the founder of the alliance itself has dodged its financial liabilities, AI's problems can hardly be a reason to point fingers at it./ What;s good for the goose is good for the gander.

Yaatri

Making it in a growing market is not that big an achievement. I think, the point you are making is that AI's demise would not be the end of the industry in India. Others would step up satifsy what the market demands.

UA Fan

You have a point, however this is applicable if Indian law is as generous as US.

rathin100

I stopped posting on this thread due to inane and racist responses and outpourings. Since the conversation has become more serious I submit my views for consideration by serious frequent flyers who actually travel on these airlines in contemporary times He is earnestly requested to keep the peace


My points:

(1) *A is the most important and sought after global alliance

(2) From a pax perspective having Jet in *A is optimal

(3) As B747437B has concisely shown through a number of examples that AI is not a commercially viable outfit now, (whatever the reasons) He has also argued, I think very convincingly, that no stakeholder in AI has enough of an interest in the airline to invest in its future survival as a viable corporate entity


(4) It is therefore in the best interest of Indian FFs that that 9W enter
*A and not AI

(5) Kingfisher aspires like OW to boutique status. If they survive that is where they will be and all to the good. If they dont I think anyone is going to be overly bothered

(6) AI if and until they survive can join the losers in Skyteam

I had a great flight on AI recently on which I have reported etc etc and have a lot of affection for the airline but contemporary facts are contemporary facts The airline is not fit for purpose any more. hence the Skyteam graveyard is the best place for it to rest -- eventually, as a relic.

rathin100

The fixed asset valuation is quite impressive actually... inter alia they have a hell of a lot of owned real estate...

rathin100

^^^

SQ421

Precisely why the GoI should get out of the loss making enterprise. Government run airline was fine and dandy when India was flirting with socialism, and providing air services could be seen as providing a "service of importance".

There's enough private players in India to pick up any shortfall that the demise of AI might create. Some of those private players might even be in a position to pick up AI's assets and expand their own operations. If they can do that, more power to them.

And while making it in a growing market is not that big an achievement, floundering and flailing the way AI has despite the booming market that is the Indian Aviation sector is most certainly an achievement in itself.