Dec 11, 2017, 1:13 am
Last edit by: MaldivesFreak
Here is a link to Hilton T & C on pooling:
http://hiltonhonors3.hilton.com/en/p...money/faq.html
1. What is Points Pooling?
Points Pooling will allow Hilton Honors Members to combine their Points with family and friends to book a stay. With this perk, a Member (and up to 10 others) will now be able to combine their Points. For example, if a group of friends are taking a trip together and individually don’t have enough Points to cover their entire stay, they will now be able to combine their Points, free of charge, into one account to unlock new redemption opportunities.
2. Is there a fee to participate in the Points Pooling program?
No, there is no fee to participate in Points Pooling.
3. How many people can contribute to Points Pooling?
A total of 11 Hilton Honors Members can pool their Points together. One Member initiates the pooling and up to 10 other Members can contribute.
4. Do I need to create a new "pooled" account?
No. Members can use their existing account.
5. How many Points Pools can I be in?
There is no limit on the number of pools a member can be in at a given time.
6. Can you use Pooled Points for just room rates or can it be used for non-room rewards including shopping and experiences?
Yes, once Points are pooled, they can be used for any room or non-room reward product, including the experiences available on the Hilton Honors auction platform, Hilton Honors Shopping Mall and any other non-room reward products.
7. Can you combine Pooled Points with money?
Once Points are pooled they can be used for any room reward product, including a Points & Money Rewards™ reward reservation.
8. What is the minimum/maximum number of Points that can be pooled?
A Member can transfer a minimum of 1,000 Points and a maximum of 500,000 Points into a pool in a calendar year. A Member can receive up to 2 million Points in a calendar year.
9. Are there particular qualifications you must meet to be able to pool Points?
To use Points Pooling, you must be an active Member, be in the program for 30 days, and have a minimum Points balance of 1,000 Points.
10. When will Points Pooling be available?
Points Pooling is now available. Start pooling your Hilton Honors Points here.
11. When will the Points be shown in the other Member’s account and be ready for use?
The transferred or pooled Points will be available for use at the time of transfer, but please allow up to 24 hours for pooled Points to show up when you log in to your account.
12. Where and how do I Points Pool once I have a group of Members that want to combine Points?
All Points Pooling activities will be transacted online via HiltonHonors.com.
13. Where do I go to transfer my Points to the Points Pool initiator?
The Points contributor must access the transfer page through the Points Pool invitation email sent on behalf ot the Points Pool initiator.
14. What’s the difference between Points Pooling and Points Transfer?
Points Transfer is a 1:1 transaction, while Points Pooling allows for combining Hilton Honors Points with up to 10 other people (11 including yourself).
15. After I send Points to a friend for Pooling, what happens if he/she cancels the trip? How can I get my Points back?
If your friend has to cancel his/her trip, he/she can simply transfer the Points back to your account for free.
http://hiltonhonors3.hilton.com/en/p...money/faq.html
1. What is Points Pooling?
Points Pooling will allow Hilton Honors Members to combine their Points with family and friends to book a stay. With this perk, a Member (and up to 10 others) will now be able to combine their Points. For example, if a group of friends are taking a trip together and individually don’t have enough Points to cover their entire stay, they will now be able to combine their Points, free of charge, into one account to unlock new redemption opportunities.
2. Is there a fee to participate in the Points Pooling program?
No, there is no fee to participate in Points Pooling.
3. How many people can contribute to Points Pooling?
A total of 11 Hilton Honors Members can pool their Points together. One Member initiates the pooling and up to 10 other Members can contribute.
4. Do I need to create a new "pooled" account?
No. Members can use their existing account.
5. How many Points Pools can I be in?
There is no limit on the number of pools a member can be in at a given time.
6. Can you use Pooled Points for just room rates or can it be used for non-room rewards including shopping and experiences?
Yes, once Points are pooled, they can be used for any room or non-room reward product, including the experiences available on the Hilton Honors auction platform, Hilton Honors Shopping Mall and any other non-room reward products.
7. Can you combine Pooled Points with money?
Once Points are pooled they can be used for any room reward product, including a Points & Money Rewards™ reward reservation.
8. What is the minimum/maximum number of Points that can be pooled?
A Member can transfer a minimum of 1,000 Points and a maximum of 500,000 Points into a pool in a calendar year. A Member can receive up to 2 million Points in a calendar year.
9. Are there particular qualifications you must meet to be able to pool Points?
To use Points Pooling, you must be an active Member, be in the program for 30 days, and have a minimum Points balance of 1,000 Points.
10. When will Points Pooling be available?
Points Pooling is now available. Start pooling your Hilton Honors Points here.
11. When will the Points be shown in the other Member’s account and be ready for use?
The transferred or pooled Points will be available for use at the time of transfer, but please allow up to 24 hours for pooled Points to show up when you log in to your account.
12. Where and how do I Points Pool once I have a group of Members that want to combine Points?
All Points Pooling activities will be transacted online via HiltonHonors.com.
13. Where do I go to transfer my Points to the Points Pool initiator?
The Points contributor must access the transfer page through the Points Pool invitation email sent on behalf ot the Points Pool initiator.
14. What’s the difference between Points Pooling and Points Transfer?
Points Transfer is a 1:1 transaction, while Points Pooling allows for combining Hilton Honors Points with up to 10 other people (11 including yourself).
15. After I send Points to a friend for Pooling, what happens if he/she cancels the trip? How can I get my Points back?
If your friend has to cancel his/her trip, he/she can simply transfer the Points back to your account for free.
Hilton Points Pooling - Account Closed. Beware !!
Sep 18, 2017, 3:46 pm
#91
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,481
If it were ok that points, which are bought for money, can be deleted by the company on its own will, then it would be a fraud, to sell that points.
Sep 18, 2017, 4:32 pm
#92
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: トロント
Programs: IHG Gold
Posts: 4,820
Which has nothing to do with your earlier statement about terms and conditions and their lack of relevance due to someone not being bothered to read them.
Sep 18, 2017, 4:57 pm
#93
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
Three things you need to understand:
#1 Points are not your property no matter how you acquire them.
#2 Points are not your property no matter how you acquire them.
#3 Points are not your property no matter how you acquire them.
Once you understand all three of those, you will stop making assertions which are simply wrong.
Whether you choose to read the t&c is irrelevant. For the most part, I don't. But, that is on me if there is something in the t&c which I later find out is to my disadvantage.
Sep 18, 2017, 5:04 pm
#94
Suspended
Join Date: Apr 2017
Programs: HH-D; MR-P/LTP; SPG-P
Posts: 849
your posts proffer sufficient proof that HH was totally within their rights per -
9.Hilton Honors reserves the right to suspend or discontinue Hilton Honors membership, including any Elite Tier status (including Silver Elite Member, Gold Elite Member,and Diamond Elite Member status), for any Member who appears to be using the Program in a manner inconsistent with the Terms and Conditions or intent of the Program or any portion of the Program, including, but not limited to, Reward redemption or Certificate use. Hilton Honors also reserves the right to discontinue membership for any Member who Hilton Honors believes, or if there are reasonable grounds for suspecting, in its sole discretion, has:
d.engaged in any abusive, fraudulent, disruptive, inappropriate, offensive or hostile conduct, whether it be physical, verbal or written in nature, towards any hotel within the Hilton Portfolio or their guests or employees, or towards Hilton or any of its employees or contractors
Such discontinued membership may result in the loss of all accumulated Points and the cancellation of Hilton Honors Certificates, benefits and privileges, including the loss of any associated Elite Tier status. In addition to discontinuance of Hilton Honors membership, Hilton Honors shall have the right to take appropriate administrative and/or legal action, including, without limitation, criminal prosecution, as it deems necessary in its sole discretion.
9.Hilton Honors reserves the right to suspend or discontinue Hilton Honors membership, including any Elite Tier status (including Silver Elite Member, Gold Elite Member,and Diamond Elite Member status), for any Member who appears to be using the Program in a manner inconsistent with the Terms and Conditions or intent of the Program or any portion of the Program, including, but not limited to, Reward redemption or Certificate use. Hilton Honors also reserves the right to discontinue membership for any Member who Hilton Honors believes, or if there are reasonable grounds for suspecting, in its sole discretion, has:
d.engaged in any abusive, fraudulent, disruptive, inappropriate, offensive or hostile conduct, whether it be physical, verbal or written in nature, towards any hotel within the Hilton Portfolio or their guests or employees, or towards Hilton or any of its employees or contractors
Such discontinued membership may result in the loss of all accumulated Points and the cancellation of Hilton Honors Certificates, benefits and privileges, including the loss of any associated Elite Tier status. In addition to discontinuance of Hilton Honors membership, Hilton Honors shall have the right to take appropriate administrative and/or legal action, including, without limitation, criminal prosecution, as it deems necessary in its sole discretion.
After tens of email for a month, HHFraudProtection just say "violated T&C".
Before closed, my boy friend just transfer/pool me 10,000/20,000/30,000 points but all failed and complaint to fb hhonor. Both of our accounts closed suddenly after few days.I
We have no idea why both of our accounts closed. We did nothing wrong. We live together over 80% out of 40 stays in Hilton group in last 5 months. We purchased 160K points in the last 50% off promotion and finally 260K points before accounts closed.
Now, no one indicated what we did. We are working in inno-tech industry, "nothing is perfect, but only fight for excellent". We loved Hilton since they heard and received our voice and thus we focus on Hilton and give up Marriott and SPG.
We love to give comment to enhance the service quality for Hilton group QC. All our comments are photoed as evidence. We never expect points for compensation. Just only once when I slept nudely in GZ doubletree hotel, a boy opened the door and watching me. It is the 1 and only 1 we asked for compensation (40K points added) since up to now, I won't sleep nudely anymore in any Hotel.
And yesterday, we got reply from hhonor Shariar: "I show our loss prevention team did a thorough research on both accounts and found these accounts to be in violation of our terms thus closing these accounts. Additionally, in reviewing the extensive complaints logs since your account was opened in Apr 2017, regrettably we show our hotels are not quite meeting your expectations when travelling. I again would like to apologize for falling short of your expectations and regrettably we will stand by the decision of our loss prevention team to leave these accounts closed. We understand you have a choice when travelling and would to thank you for contacting Hilton hotels.
Respectfully,
EMPLOYEE NAME REDACTED BY MOD
Supervisor
Guest Assistance & Honors Email"
It is terrible that HHonor can close the door without reason. Clean out all points without notice/warning. If you don't welcome us, that's fine but please cash back.
Experts, can anyone suggest us what we can do to preserve consumer right?
Thanks.
***Clarification:
A. All complaint via Hilton app and follow up email with photos internally.
B. All photos posted to our Facebook or public media are compliment ONLY. All facebook photos are evidence that I lived inside for all stays. Never booking for others. No complaints in public media but only compliment for named staffs in TripAdvisor.
Hilton is the one "listen" to customer. We loved it and promote it since we matched from Marriott/SPG at April.
C. We never trade points or resell rooms or book for others. All stays all done by ourselves.
D. Hhfraudprotection had given reason with "violated T&C" but no detail. After searched by internet, all closed account with reason about how violated.
E. Complaint is help for improvement, some listed below:
1. Refrigerator not cleaned, all dirties like after a bomb inside. - ningbo HGI
2. A service boy opened the door and look inside when I fell asleep nudely. - GuangZhu doubletree
3. No one can help when I alone arrived WuHan Hilton optic valley with 3 big baggage. Asked support but no one care, same result after complain when I left.
4. The worst one - Guiyang HGI
USB socket is useless
Door of washroom can't be closed (keep half open)
Door of the Room can't be locked (feeling not safe after #2 )
Bad Decoration like a big white circle on the door
Wash tank is dirty
more than half of complaint listed above(all with photos). Can't remember all. I made 40 nights in 5 months.
Complaint is not the reason for close, just not reopen. I don't care to kick me out of Hilton as it is escaping out for improvement. I just want to get back my prepayment.
Hilton sells points and clear them anytime when it is unhappy....Seems kidding
Before closed, my boy friend just transfer/pool me 10,000/20,000/30,000 points but all failed and complaint to fb hhonor. Both of our accounts closed suddenly after few days.I
We have no idea why both of our accounts closed. We did nothing wrong. We live together over 80% out of 40 stays in Hilton group in last 5 months. We purchased 160K points in the last 50% off promotion and finally 260K points before accounts closed.
Now, no one indicated what we did. We are working in inno-tech industry, "nothing is perfect, but only fight for excellent". We loved Hilton since they heard and received our voice and thus we focus on Hilton and give up Marriott and SPG.
We love to give comment to enhance the service quality for Hilton group QC. All our comments are photoed as evidence. We never expect points for compensation. Just only once when I slept nudely in GZ doubletree hotel, a boy opened the door and watching me. It is the 1 and only 1 we asked for compensation (40K points added) since up to now, I won't sleep nudely anymore in any Hotel.
And yesterday, we got reply from hhonor Shariar: "I show our loss prevention team did a thorough research on both accounts and found these accounts to be in violation of our terms thus closing these accounts. Additionally, in reviewing the extensive complaints logs since your account was opened in Apr 2017, regrettably we show our hotels are not quite meeting your expectations when travelling. I again would like to apologize for falling short of your expectations and regrettably we will stand by the decision of our loss prevention team to leave these accounts closed. We understand you have a choice when travelling and would to thank you for contacting Hilton hotels.
Respectfully,
EMPLOYEE NAME REDACTED BY MOD
Supervisor
Guest Assistance & Honors Email"
It is terrible that HHonor can close the door without reason. Clean out all points without notice/warning. If you don't welcome us, that's fine but please cash back.
Experts, can anyone suggest us what we can do to preserve consumer right?
Thanks.
***Clarification:
A. All complaint via Hilton app and follow up email with photos internally.
B. All photos posted to our Facebook or public media are compliment ONLY. All facebook photos are evidence that I lived inside for all stays. Never booking for others. No complaints in public media but only compliment for named staffs in TripAdvisor.
Hilton is the one "listen" to customer. We loved it and promote it since we matched from Marriott/SPG at April.
C. We never trade points or resell rooms or book for others. All stays all done by ourselves.
D. Hhfraudprotection had given reason with "violated T&C" but no detail. After searched by internet, all closed account with reason about how violated.
E. Complaint is help for improvement, some listed below:
1. Refrigerator not cleaned, all dirties like after a bomb inside. - ningbo HGI
2. A service boy opened the door and look inside when I fell asleep nudely. - GuangZhu doubletree
3. No one can help when I alone arrived WuHan Hilton optic valley with 3 big baggage. Asked support but no one care, same result after complain when I left.
4. The worst one - Guiyang HGI
USB socket is useless
Door of washroom can't be closed (keep half open)
Door of the Room can't be locked (feeling not safe after #2 )
Bad Decoration like a big white circle on the door
Wash tank is dirty
more than half of complaint listed above(all with photos). Can't remember all. I made 40 nights in 5 months.
Complaint is not the reason for close, just not reopen. I don't care to kick me out of Hilton as it is escaping out for improvement. I just want to get back my prepayment.
Hilton sells points and clear them anytime when it is unhappy....Seems kidding
Sep 18, 2017, 7:35 pm
#95
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SEA, but up and down the coast a lot
Programs: Oceanic Airlines Gold Elite
Posts: 20,392
Obviously the reason why people buy points is to get an advantage; rather than use cash they'd like to stay at Hilton properties in, say, China
for $20 USD a night (a bunch of Hilton properties in China are 5k a night, and five night stays would only cost 20k points/4k a night, thus $20/night during a points sale) rather than rack rate. They perceive an advantage. Hilton makes this possible... under terms and conditions it sets forth in a loyalty program. But I guess they need to confer property rights in those points as well because saying very clearly "you're not buying property, you're giving us money for the right to have limited participation in a loyalty program, the terms for which are stated here, if you don't like it perhaps you shouldn't give us money" isn't good enough?
Sep 18, 2017, 8:09 pm
#96
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: ATL - DL DM/3MM - HH Lifetime Diamond - Marriott Lifetime Plat
Posts: 3,117
This whole thread is hilarious. You have some new new age techie who thinks they have found the golden Grail by complaining about everything and then points get credited to their account. The real world catches up to them and they complain that their millennial fantasy hasn't happened. They bought points which they used and are now complaining that the rest of them have been been cancelled out. Do the apologists also think OJ was innocent?
Sep 18, 2017, 8:57 pm
#97
Suspended
Join Date: Apr 2017
Programs: HH-D; MR-P/LTP; SPG-P
Posts: 849
this has turned into a "game" for a few and it's not only Hilton, it's across all brands (and one of my clients owns 96 hotels worldwide and I see these - including bringing their own bed bugs only they're not indigenous to the country in which they're being released!!)
This whole thread is hilarious. You have some new new age techie who thinks they have found the golden Grail by complaining about everything and then points get credited to their account. The real world catches up to them and they complain that their millennial fantasy hasn't happened. They bought points which they used and are now complaining that the rest of them have been been cancelled out. Do the apologists also think OJ was innocent?
Sep 18, 2017, 9:03 pm
#98
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Charleston, SC, USA
Programs: Avis Pref+, Hyatt Explorist, Marriott Life Gold, Honors Silver, IHG Plat via MC.
Posts: 6,786
From her OP, it seems that most of Zoe Tse's complaints were valid and about genuinely objectionable things. A boy who opened her door when she was in bed, the doors that would not close properly, etc. do not = .....ing/ whining/ drumming up excuses to claim compensation! However, as PHLGovtFlyer #83 says, such concerns should be presented privately to Hilton in a non-public, non-shaming way. For example, when I found a live cockroach in the washroom of a restaurant where I was a regular customer, I stomped it dead, then quietly called the manager to show him alone so he could calmly call Pest Control. I did not raise a public fuss.
US Law has a concept called "unconscionability" which can void one-sided T&Cs. Also, US Contract Law looks at the behavior of the parties in addition to written words. It is a contradiction to sell points (or anything else) for money yet claim that the buyer has not acquired ownership of the stuff! So I expect that a lawyer could get Zoe's money back for the purchased points, but the other points are probably dead per Hilton T&Cs.
US Law has a concept called "unconscionability" which can void one-sided T&Cs. Also, US Contract Law looks at the behavior of the parties in addition to written words. It is a contradiction to sell points (or anything else) for money yet claim that the buyer has not acquired ownership of the stuff! So I expect that a lawyer could get Zoe's money back for the purchased points, but the other points are probably dead per Hilton T&Cs.
Sep 18, 2017, 9:13 pm
#99
Suspended
Join Date: Apr 2017
Programs: HH-D; MR-P/LTP; SPG-P
Posts: 849
unfortunately US law isn't controling in China
[QUOTE=Brendan;28832139]From her OP, it seems that most of Zoe Tse's complaints were valid and about genuinely objectionable things. A boy who opened her door when she was in bed, the doors that would not close properly, etc. do not = .....ing/ whining/ drumming up excuses to claim compensation! However, as PHLGovtFlyer #83 says, such concerns should be presented privately to Hilton in a non-public, non-shaming way. For example, when I found a live cockroach in the washroom of a restaurant where I was a regular customer, I stomped it dead, then quietly called the manager to show him alone so he could calmly call Pest Control. I did not raise a public fuss.
US Law has a concept called "unconscionability" which can void one-sided T&Cs. Also, US Contract Law looks at the behavior of the parties in addition to written words. It is a contradiction to sell points (or anything else) for money yet claim that the buyer has not acquired ownership of the stuff! So I expect that a lawyer could get Zoe's money back for the purchased points, but the other points are probably dead per Hilton T&Cs.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Brendan;28832139]From her OP, it seems that most of Zoe Tse's complaints were valid and about genuinely objectionable things. A boy who opened her door when she was in bed, the doors that would not close properly, etc. do not = .....ing/ whining/ drumming up excuses to claim compensation! However, as PHLGovtFlyer #83 says, such concerns should be presented privately to Hilton in a non-public, non-shaming way. For example, when I found a live cockroach in the washroom of a restaurant where I was a regular customer, I stomped it dead, then quietly called the manager to show him alone so he could calmly call Pest Control. I did not raise a public fuss.
US Law has a concept called "unconscionability" which can void one-sided T&Cs. Also, US Contract Law looks at the behavior of the parties in addition to written words. It is a contradiction to sell points (or anything else) for money yet claim that the buyer has not acquired ownership of the stuff! So I expect that a lawyer could get Zoe's money back for the purchased points, but the other points are probably dead per Hilton T&Cs.[/QUOTE]
Sep 18, 2017, 9:39 pm
#100
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SEA, but up and down the coast a lot
Programs: Oceanic Airlines Gold Elite
Posts: 20,392
You can't have this both ways- either you're getting stuff that has value as a result of your employment, just like your paycheck, which is a taxable benefit just like income, or you don't actually "own" the thing and thus cannot be taxed on it. This is actually a pretty important historical point when it comes to loyalty programs and why they are constructed. (Also, there's existing case law on loyalty programs, referred to up thread.)
Or, maybe, we could not be jackasses when trying to engage in exchanges for mutual benefit with loyalty programs, and keep the status quo, rather that getting outraged when someone decides they've got a good scheme going- continual complaints yielding points plus points purchases = many, many cheap hotel rooms in China, and the loyalty program decides, well, maybe a continually complaining customer is perhaps not suited for the program?
Sep 18, 2017, 9:52 pm
#101
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Charleston, SC, USA
Programs: Avis Pref+, Hyatt Explorist, Marriott Life Gold, Honors Silver, IHG Plat via MC.
Posts: 6,786
EC, haven't the hotel co.s & airlines already done that by selling points for cash? Given the IRS evidence of the monetary value of points??
Sep 18, 2017, 10:00 pm
#102
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SEA, but up and down the coast a lot
Programs: Oceanic Airlines Gold Elite
Posts: 20,392
(They break that out in their income statements... but per program terms, they own the miles they sold to the banks, etc., which turned around and "gave" them to John Q. Public when he applied for that credit card or rented that car. Except, well, nobody gave him anything because it's still owned by the airline.)
But hey, if you feel like paying extra taxes to the IRS when you redeem for that Etihad Apartment Suites redemption, on full market value of that flight you took, knock yourself out, I guess.
Sep 18, 2017, 10:28 pm
#103
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Charleston, SC, USA
Programs: Avis Pref+, Hyatt Explorist, Marriott Life Gold, Honors Silver, IHG Plat via MC.
Posts: 6,786
All my miles & points are from my spending my own money, so I'll let those whose employers pay for (some of) their travel concern themselves with that !
!
Sep 19, 2017, 12:15 am
#104
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,481
No, it would not.
Three things you need to understand:
#1 Points are not your property no matter how you acquire them.
#2 Points are not your property no matter how you acquire them.
#3 Points are not your property no matter how you acquire them.
Once you understand all three of those, you will stop making assertions which are simply wrong.
Whether you choose to read the t&c is irrelevant. For the most part, I don't. But, that is on me if there is something in the t&c which I later find out is to my disadvantage.
Three things you need to understand:
#1 Points are not your property no matter how you acquire them.
#2 Points are not your property no matter how you acquire them.
#3 Points are not your property no matter how you acquire them.
Once you understand all three of those, you will stop making assertions which are simply wrong.
Whether you choose to read the t&c is irrelevant. For the most part, I don't. But, that is on me if there is something in the t&c which I later find out is to my disadvantage.
Sep 19, 2017, 12:21 am
#105
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,481
It has. That is the reason, why in court there is always to check first, if the customer isn't unduly disadvantaged by the t&c.