Hilton Honors 10,000-Point and 20,000-Point Reward Discount VIP Certificates
Apr 30, 2003, 10:17 am
#91
Moderator: Southwest Airlines, Capital One
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: California
Programs: WN Companion Pass, A-list preferred, Hyatt Globalist; United Club Lietime (sic) Member
Posts: 21,626
I wonder whether the policy came about in reaction to feared or actual counterfeiting of the VIP discount coupons. That could provide a rationale for Hilton's stealthy approach and liberal granting of exceptions.
Incidentally, I urge any FTers who learn of any effort to defraud any loyalty program to report it immediately: Fraudsters cause benefit cutbacks for everyone else.
Incidentally, I urge any FTers who learn of any effort to defraud any loyalty program to report it immediately: Fraudsters cause benefit cutbacks for everyone else.
Apr 30, 2003, 10:43 am
#92
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2002
Programs: UALifetimePremierGold, Marriott LifetimeTitanium
Posts: 71,114
nsx, i doubt it. but you've now given them a reason to say that's why they did it! 
as posted in this thread there aren't millions of them out there; it's not that big a deal for hilton & unless they change the policy, the ill will they're getting over it is definitely not worth what they're saving by not honoring them.
i'm of the 'if it doesn't have a formal cancel date then you honor it, or - if you feel you must stop it, give a reasonable grace period - and most importantly, notice - to those who have it' camp.
i'm still stunned about their response in another thread about a change they're making that will affect ALL Hilton members - they've consciously chosen not to do a general email to their members letting them know of the change. It's the thread on them only providing points if you book through their engines & expedia - the 3 strikes & you're out response. Sorry, don't have the link right here.
------------------
Sharon
as posted in this thread there aren't millions of them out there; it's not that big a deal for hilton & unless they change the policy, the ill will they're getting over it is definitely not worth what they're saving by not honoring them.
i'm of the 'if it doesn't have a formal cancel date then you honor it, or - if you feel you must stop it, give a reasonable grace period - and most importantly, notice - to those who have it' camp.
i'm still stunned about their response in another thread about a change they're making that will affect ALL Hilton members - they've consciously chosen not to do a general email to their members letting them know of the change. It's the thread on them only providing points if you book through their engines & expedia - the 3 strikes & you're out response. Sorry, don't have the link right here.
------------------
Sharon
May 1, 2003, 1:02 am
#93
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 51
The latest exchanges below.
[My remarks:- Note they dont even start off with the customary courtesy "Dear" any more.... :-(]
=============================
Dear Madam
With the utmost respect, my questions are as stated in my email.
Can you check with your superiors and revert.
Please also see the thread :
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum57/HTML/007507.html
Thank you
Regards
====================================
[my name],
I assure you; we are aware of flyertalk and I have been in close contact with my Superiors on this subject.
There was no official notice given with regards to the validity of the VIP Discount certificates. According to our terms and conditions, Hilton reserves the right to add, modify, delete or otherwise change any of the rules, procedures, conditions, benefits, Rewards or Reward levels pertaining to the Program at its sole discretion, with or without notice, even though changes may affect the value of points or Reward Certificates or Confirmations already accumulated. This means that Hilton may make changes that affect, but are not limited to, participating hotels, travel partner affiliations, rules for earning HHonors points, Reward redemption levels, rules and procedures for the use of Rewards, continued availability of awards, Reward inventory, Reward types, and the features of special offers. For more information with regards to our Terms and Conditions, please visit our website: www.hiltonhhonors.com scroll to the bottom of the page and click on "HHonors Terms & Conditions".
Sincerely,
Elfrieda
[My remarks:- Note they dont even start off with the customary courtesy "Dear" any more.... :-(]
=============================
Dear Madam
With the utmost respect, my questions are as stated in my email.
Can you check with your superiors and revert.
Please also see the thread :
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum57/HTML/007507.html
Thank you
Regards
====================================
[my name],
I assure you; we are aware of flyertalk and I have been in close contact with my Superiors on this subject.
There was no official notice given with regards to the validity of the VIP Discount certificates. According to our terms and conditions, Hilton reserves the right to add, modify, delete or otherwise change any of the rules, procedures, conditions, benefits, Rewards or Reward levels pertaining to the Program at its sole discretion, with or without notice, even though changes may affect the value of points or Reward Certificates or Confirmations already accumulated. This means that Hilton may make changes that affect, but are not limited to, participating hotels, travel partner affiliations, rules for earning HHonors points, Reward redemption levels, rules and procedures for the use of Rewards, continued availability of awards, Reward inventory, Reward types, and the features of special offers. For more information with regards to our Terms and Conditions, please visit our website: www.hiltonhhonors.com scroll to the bottom of the page and click on "HHonors Terms & Conditions".
Sincerely,
Elfrieda
May 1, 2003, 10:28 am
#94
Moderator: Southwest Airlines, Capital One
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: California
Programs: WN Companion Pass, A-list preferred, Hyatt Globalist; United Club Lietime (sic) Member
Posts: 21,626
When asking for a favor from a FF program, if the phone agent is hesitant to help, just politely say "thanks for looking at it for me" and end the call. Don't make a big deal of it, or the agent may write a note in your record that you have already been denied relief. Just try later with someone else.
I used this strategy yesterday with a UA problem and it worked beautifully. I knew that my request was reasonable and that I therefore had a high probability of success on a second call, so there was no need to waste time when the first call was not immediately successful.
I recommend phone over email because you have more opportunity to impress the agent that you are a real person, a loyal customer, and a nice guy. In other words, you are the kind of person for whom anyone would like to do a favor. You can do some of this in a letter or email, but only if you are a really good writer.
I used this strategy yesterday with a UA problem and it worked beautifully. I knew that my request was reasonable and that I therefore had a high probability of success on a second call, so there was no need to waste time when the first call was not immediately successful.
I recommend phone over email because you have more opportunity to impress the agent that you are a real person, a loyal customer, and a nice guy. In other words, you are the kind of person for whom anyone would like to do a favor. You can do some of this in a letter or email, but only if you are a really good writer.
May 1, 2003, 10:36 am
#95
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2002
Programs: UALifetimePremierGold, Marriott LifetimeTitanium
Posts: 71,114
Dear Asian_Traveller: I think Elfrieda forgot to say don't let the door hit you on the way out!!! - geesh. Talk about not customer service-oriented. Starwood is starting to look better after all.
------------------
Sharon
------------------
Sharon
May 1, 2003, 11:23 am
#96
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Alexandria, VA, USA NW Platinum Elite Since 1999, United GoldMM, Hyatt Plat, SPG Gold, Hilton Gold, Hertz #1 Gold, IC Ambassador, Avis Chairman's
Posts: 7,445
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by SkiAdcock:
Dear Asian_Traveller: I think Elfrieda forgot to say don't let the door hit you on the way out!!! - geesh. Talk about not customer service-oriented. Starwood is starting to look better after all.
</font>
Dear Asian_Traveller: I think Elfrieda forgot to say don't let the door hit you on the way out!!! - geesh. Talk about not customer service-oriented. Starwood is starting to look better after all.
</font>
Hmmmm can you see any correlation... both United at the Freddies and Hilton's CSR in the e-mail seem to be very UN-customer... and guess what they both got zero Freddies. Think some companies need to wake up coz it's the service (perks help too) that keeps us coming back more than anything else...
May 1, 2003, 6:41 pm
#97
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 51
Dear nsx
Whilst I appreciate your comment that it is good to be polite etc etc , I honestly do not consider my email as anything but direct and to the point. Strongly worded, yes. Confrontational, no.
I am not asking for a favour. I am simply stating the position and seeking an official reply. I do not see the need to use flowery language in official requests.
Your strategy of trying it with some other CSR later is a short term one and very unacceptable to me. If I am entitled to, give it to me, if not, ok so be it but give me full details. Don't be evasive. Why should I be making daily calls hoping to strike lottery with one CSR who happens to be so ever nice as a result of my sweet talk or one who may have forgotten their own internal instruction to reject the certificates.
You seem to suggest now that all these was brought about by my confrontational email. Perhaps we can in future refer all problems to you and let your polite emails resolve them.
Please, this is not as issue on the manner I wrote to them. This is a issue of whether it is legal, moral and/or ethical for Hhonors to rescind their committment to members without informing them or giving them sufficient or reasonable time to deal with it. I have no problems with the recent change in points - sufficient notice was given. In this case, no notice was given. We only found out after the event. It was a unilateral act. If that is acceptable to you, nsx, then so be it.
I only have 2 certificates of 20,000 points each and it is no big deal to me. I am just taking up the cause that this cannot be a precedent for hhonors to rescind privileges without fair warning. If you feel my approach is wrong, that is your opinion, but please do not distract us from the real issue.
Whilst I appreciate your comment that it is good to be polite etc etc , I honestly do not consider my email as anything but direct and to the point. Strongly worded, yes. Confrontational, no.
I am not asking for a favour. I am simply stating the position and seeking an official reply. I do not see the need to use flowery language in official requests.
Your strategy of trying it with some other CSR later is a short term one and very unacceptable to me. If I am entitled to, give it to me, if not, ok so be it but give me full details. Don't be evasive. Why should I be making daily calls hoping to strike lottery with one CSR who happens to be so ever nice as a result of my sweet talk or one who may have forgotten their own internal instruction to reject the certificates.
You seem to suggest now that all these was brought about by my confrontational email. Perhaps we can in future refer all problems to you and let your polite emails resolve them.
Please, this is not as issue on the manner I wrote to them. This is a issue of whether it is legal, moral and/or ethical for Hhonors to rescind their committment to members without informing them or giving them sufficient or reasonable time to deal with it. I have no problems with the recent change in points - sufficient notice was given. In this case, no notice was given. We only found out after the event. It was a unilateral act. If that is acceptable to you, nsx, then so be it.
I only have 2 certificates of 20,000 points each and it is no big deal to me. I am just taking up the cause that this cannot be a precedent for hhonors to rescind privileges without fair warning. If you feel my approach is wrong, that is your opinion, but please do not distract us from the real issue.
May 1, 2003, 8:21 pm
#98
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,720
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by SkiAdcock:
Dear Asian_Traveller: I think Elfrieda forgot to say don't let the door hit you on the way out!!! - geesh. Talk about not customer service-oriented. Starwood is starting to look better after all.
</font>
Dear Asian_Traveller: I think Elfrieda forgot to say don't let the door hit you on the way out!!! - geesh. Talk about not customer service-oriented. Starwood is starting to look better after all.
</font>
It is truly a shame what is happening, but the upside is that there are still a good number of choices out there to fit one's profile.
May 1, 2003, 9:43 pm
#99
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 51
I am not blaming the CSR on this. In fact I think she is parroting the statement made to her by her higher ups. poor luv!
I do not get personal on such things. Lets not get personal and can we focus on the issue - can they legally do this and is it morally and ethical right for them to do this?
I do not get personal on such things. Lets not get personal and can we focus on the issue - can they legally do this and is it morally and ethical right for them to do this?
May 1, 2003, 10:44 pm
#100
Moderator: Southwest Airlines, Capital One
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: California
Programs: WN Companion Pass, A-list preferred, Hyatt Globalist; United Club Lietime (sic) Member
Posts: 21,626
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Asian_Traveller:
You seem to suggest now that all these was brought about by my confrontational email. </font>
You seem to suggest now that all these was brought about by my confrontational email. </font>
May 2, 2003, 5:51 pm
#102
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Beverly Hills, CA, USA
Posts: 180
Hello all. First of all, my apologies that I wasn't able to get back to you sooner. Candidly, since we hadn't issued the Reward Discount Certificates in several years, and this benefit had been discontinued, we had informed our Service Center that this program was no longer valid.
Having said that, we appreciate your feedback and, given that a number of you apparently still have some of the old certificates, we will certainly accept those.
Since it's been some time since these certs were issued, let me take a moment to clarify the terms and conditions as well:
> Member must currently be at the applicable VIP tier for the requested VIP Discount Certificate being used.
> A maximum of 20,000 points may be applied per reward.
> There is no limit on the number of VIP Discount Certificates used per year.
> The certificate must be the original document - no faxes or photocopies will be accepted.
> Certificates are non-transferable and cannot be re-issued if lost or stolen.
> Point credit will not be issued for unused certificates.
Again, thank you to all for bringing this to our attention and my apologies for any frustration this may have caused.
Sincerely,
Adam Burke
Vice President, Marketing
Hilton HHonors Worldwide
Having said that, we appreciate your feedback and, given that a number of you apparently still have some of the old certificates, we will certainly accept those.
Since it's been some time since these certs were issued, let me take a moment to clarify the terms and conditions as well:
> Member must currently be at the applicable VIP tier for the requested VIP Discount Certificate being used.
> A maximum of 20,000 points may be applied per reward.
> There is no limit on the number of VIP Discount Certificates used per year.
> The certificate must be the original document - no faxes or photocopies will be accepted.
> Certificates are non-transferable and cannot be re-issued if lost or stolen.
> Point credit will not be issued for unused certificates.
Again, thank you to all for bringing this to our attention and my apologies for any frustration this may have caused.
Sincerely,
Adam Burke
Vice President, Marketing
Hilton HHonors Worldwide
May 2, 2003, 6:17 pm
#103
Join Date: May 1999
Posts: 6,084
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Adam Burke:
we appreciate your feedback and, given that a number of you apparently still have some of the old certificates, we will certainly accept those. </font>
we appreciate your feedback and, given that a number of you apparently still have some of the old certificates, we will certainly accept those. </font>
May 2, 2003, 7:55 pm
#105
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,720
DEAR MR.Burke:
I applaud the decision! However, I have a bit of a problem. First, 2 of my certs are for 10,000 points as I had earned them as a VIP SILVER -- BUT, I am now a VIP GOLD!!
I assume I may still use them for my redemption, nonetheless?
Second, one of the 10,000 VIP CERTS was provided in one of my statements and as such it has no name on it -- one was required to cut it our from the statement! If you were to do a bit of research on this issue, you would see that I am not fabricating this.
Might I still use this cert -- on the Hilton Cardstock Paper from the Statement of Account?
Your reply would be most appreciated so that I may sent in your response with my certs and requests so that I should not encounter any trouble when redeeming these items.
Thank you.
I applaud the decision! However, I have a bit of a problem. First, 2 of my certs are for 10,000 points as I had earned them as a VIP SILVER -- BUT, I am now a VIP GOLD!!
I assume I may still use them for my redemption, nonetheless?
Second, one of the 10,000 VIP CERTS was provided in one of my statements and as such it has no name on it -- one was required to cut it our from the statement! If you were to do a bit of research on this issue, you would see that I am not fabricating this.
Might I still use this cert -- on the Hilton Cardstock Paper from the Statement of Account?
Your reply would be most appreciated so that I may sent in your response with my certs and requests so that I should not encounter any trouble when redeeming these items.
Thank you.