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-   -   AY Plus changes on 01JUN23 (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/finnair-finnair-plus/2121960-ay-plus-changes-01jun23.html)

r2d2 May 27, 2023 12:51 am


Originally Posted by haapalainen (Post 35282045)
She said they have received a lot of feedback on the weight issue and are trying to find a solution with Traficom allowing for higher weights.

It's kind of interesting that this has suddenly become an issue with Traficom right now, after flying the E190's and AT75's for years. Maybe AY has contacted Traficom regarding this issue now so that if someone tries to challenge the policy change, they could justify it with having to comply with authority requirements.

sakari1707 May 27, 2023 1:57 am


Originally Posted by r2d2 (Post 35282249)
It's kind of interesting that this has suddenly become an issue with Traficom right now, after flying the E190's and AT75's for years. Maybe AY has contacted Traficom regarding this issue now so that if someone tries to challenge the policy change, they could justify it with having to comply with authority requirements.

Your bag in cabin or in hold = same aircraft total weight.
In fact, if you know you will (or you have to) put your bag in hold, most people would tend to pack more stuff, maybe bigger suitcase = aircraft total weight more.

intuition May 27, 2023 2:00 am


Originally Posted by haapalainen (Post 35282045)
I met a Finnair executive yesterday and had a brief discussion about the new carry on bag rules. She said they have received a lot of feedback on the weight issue and are trying to find a solution with Traficom allowing for higher weights.

Apparently the problem is the E190s and especially ATRs which can't take a heavy loading in the overhead lockers. And this creates an issue for AY as they don't want to have different rules for different aircraft types. A320s are no problem, since they even at the moment fly wetleased for BA who have a 23kg carry on allowance.

I proposed a "delivery at aircraft" type of operation for ATRs and she sounded genuinely positive about that. But of course there are some drawbacks to that as well, such as slower de-boarding as the carry on bags need to be unloaded from the cargo hold before passengers can start de-boarding.

Very interesting, thanks for posting!

Just like others picked up on, I am slightly surprised - they have had "different rules" for as long as I can remember. The old carry-on size of of 56 x 45 x 25 never did work on the smaller planes and there was an asterix it wasn't possible on some aircraft.
Was that optimal? No. Were there some issues on the smaller aircraft? Yes. Was it a big enough issue to lower all allowances? Well, smallest aircraft I've experienced on AY was E90 and to me the carry-on issues could be resolved by staff. But of course, more seats and higher loadfactors and people bringing more as carry-on due to bag fees can of course have made that situation worse with time.

Also, like kauppias said, SK does the deliver at airplane. They have CRJ with similar (or even worse) overhead space as E90. It works really well, I recently had a trip where my small carry-on did not fit and I didn't realise until I was onboard. Asked the FA, and she quickly tagged and put it on the tarmac.
Yes, there is a slight delay when deplaning, but it does not matter much on a CRJ - it is still tarmac deplaning, via a really steep and narrow staircase so deplaning is slow anyway. And not having to carry a big bag through the cabin and down the stairs might actually speed up the deplaing a bit.

On a CRJ on AMS-CPH with pretty high loadfactor there was around 6 bags waiting to be picket up when I deplaned. Of course that space is not unlimited either, but it seemed that ≈1/15 of passengers had a too big bag for an CRJ cabin. At that level it seems to be very manageable.

r2d2 May 27, 2023 2:11 am


Originally Posted by sakari1707 (Post 35282316)
Your bag in cabin or in hold = same aircraft total weight.

The issue can't be the total aircraft weight, but how much weight each of the overhead bins can carry.

kauppias May 27, 2023 2:27 am

So with this theory couldnt they do a 8kg roller limit and another 8kg for the personal item with a absolute ban of the small item in the overhead bins (with exception to the exits and the 1st row? Problem solved IF this is truly a real desire for them.... they need to hire out of the box thinkers to work at fi nair, and I am sure my employer would be willing for me to take that position at Finnair 🤣🤣🤣

kauppias May 27, 2023 2:29 am


Originally Posted by intuition (Post 35282321)
Very interesting, thanks for posting!

Just like others picked up on, I am slightly surprised - they have had "different rules" for as long as I can remember. The old carry-on size of of 56 x 45 x 25 never did work on the smaller planes and there was an asterix it wasn't possible on some aircraft.
Was that optimal? No. Were there some issues on the smaller aircraft? Yes. Was it a big enough issue to lower all allowances? Well, smallest aircraft I've experienced on AY was E90 and to me the carry-on issues could be resolved by staff. But of course, more seats and higher loadfactors and people bringing more as carry-on due to bag fees can of course have made that situation worse with time.

Also, like kauppias said, SK does the deliver at airplane. They have CRJ with similar (or even worse) overhead space as E90. It works really well, I recently had a trip where my small carry-on did not fit and I didn't realise until I was onboard. Asked the FA, and she quickly tagged and put it on the tarmac.
Yes, there is a slight delay when deplaning, but it does not matter much on a CRJ - it is still tarmac deplaning, via a really steep and narrow staircase so deplaning is slow anyway. And not having to carry a big bag through the cabin and down the stairs might actually speed up the deplaing a bit.

On a CRJ on AMS-CPH with pretty high loadfactor there was around 6 bags waiting to be picket up when I deplaned. Of course that space is not unlimited either, but it seemed that ≈1/15 of passengers had a too big bag for an CRJ cabin. At that level it seems to be very manageable.


When flying
with sk alot I allways used to airside trolley for my bag just so much easier and I knew it would be waiting for me. Laptop was in my personal item

mondostic May 27, 2023 4:46 am


Originally Posted by vulle (Post 35279583)
I understand now why Finnair has enhanced their baggage rules. I can finally unlock newfound freedom during my travels by embracing a minimalist mindset. By shedding unnecessary belongings, I'll lighten my load and create space for meaningful memories :idea:

https://www.finnair.com/fi-en/bluewi...acking-2992582

Oh that's even worse in Bluewings than it was on socials :mad:. Good thing the commenters were on it as expected.
I'm doing all of those points already but work is work and needs work gear.

Except souveniers and shopping, I never do those, but apparently airline travel is there to screw parts of the tourism industry, not to help them.
Why not just admit that if you pack 8 kg (or go "Free your Mind Superlight Starlight Express") on the way in, you already have to beg that no one gives you anything while at your destination.

nordic May 27, 2023 4:49 am


Originally Posted by haapalainen (Post 35282045)
But of course there are some drawbacks to that as well, such as slower de-boarding as the carry on bags need to be unloaded from the cargo hold before passengers can start de-boarding.

Even other airlines than SAS have done that a long time. I have always why the deboarding has to wait until the bags have been unloaded. Are they afraid that some people forget the luggage if it is not visible while deboarding or are there any other reasons? To me this would be an ideal solution for ATRs which do not use gates.

mondostic May 27, 2023 5:01 am


Originally Posted by nordic (Post 35282509)
Even other airlines than SAS have done that a long time. I have always why the deboarding has to wait until the bags have been unloaded. Are they afraid that some people forget the luggage if it is not visible while deboarding or are there any other reasons? To me this would be an ideal solution for ATRs which do not use gates.

Along with SK we've had that on some charters. It does add a couple of minutes to the whole procedure but it is what it is. Not like those smaller planes deboard very long anyway.

But already this Traficom angle is more understandable as an excuse than "free your mind and the luggage will follow" or "we streamline the process by checking every Superlight for status". Should've brought it out more even if talking regulation isn't sexy.

lento May 27, 2023 5:25 am

This is interesting, can I really bring 5 checked bags but just 8 kg on carry on ?
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...ead6383e2e.jpg

Jainzar May 27, 2023 5:29 am


Originally Posted by kauppias (Post 35282357)
So with this theory couldnt they do a 8kg roller limit and another 8kg for the personal item with a absolute ban of the small item in the overhead bins (with exception to the exits and the 1st row? Problem solved IF this is truly a real desire for them.... they need to hire out of the box thinkers to work at fi nair, and I am sure my employer would be willing for me to take that position at Finnair 🤣🤣🤣

Why then even 8kg for the personal item? If you look at SK it is labelled underseat bag without weight restriction.


UNDERSEAT BAG

Such as a small handbag or laptop or similar, the bag must fit under the seat in front of you.
  • Maximum size: 40 cm x 30 cm x 15 cm (length x width x depth).

https://www.sas.fi/en/travel-info/baggage/carry-on/

FFlash May 27, 2023 6:39 am

I like however that on SK they dont force you to shambles but they let pax freely put their bags in cargohold at plane. Or they are oftenmost lax about it, perhaps they expect you to do it but not care so stricly even if there is always someone on tarmac watching by.

nordic May 27, 2023 6:39 am

I’m confused. My next business class flight as OWE does not include 1 free checked bag. Is this correct. I’ve not seen new conditions for OWEs, only AY platinum. And this flight was booked before the announcement.

cheesyfeet May 27, 2023 8:36 am


Originally Posted by nordic (Post 35282679)
I’m confused. My next business class flight as OWE does not include 1 free checked bag. Is this correct. I’ve not seen new conditions for OWEs, only AY platinum. And this flight was booked before the announcement.

Definitely not correct.

zxcv1 May 27, 2023 10:43 am

Instead of increasing award point prices, why not just change the accrual rates of future points? That would have left the already earned points untouched and pissed off far fewer customers. Apparently the greed was stronger than common sense.


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