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The Big UPGRADE Thread – all you need to know about AY upgrades

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Old May 16, 2017, 1:37 pm
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Last edit by: lkrt
General
Upgrade space is capacity controlled, separately from revenue space in J cabin. The number of seats released to the different upgrade types are driven by a number of factors, but never by the "there are unsold seats in J cabin, let's fill them" policy some other airlines employ. Same applies with upgrades to Premium Economy.

Upgrades now book into fare bucket U, which is also used for business class awards. Note that availability tools such as Expertflyer etc. may or may not show correct U availability as AY tends to offer additional U availability to Plats and Lumos, and this hidden availability is not shown by non-AY affiliated availability tools. Premium Economy upgrade availability is in bucket F, with the above disclaimers applying similarly.

You can upgrade and review the available upgrade options at https://www.finnair.com/en/manage/upgrade.

The searches below very often show zero availability. Very few directly confirmable seats are released in particularly longhaul J. Instead upgrades must go on waitlist, from where a robot processes upgrades from an unknown set of parameters. A waitlisted upgrade can clear in minutes or never, and there is no way to know. Waitlisted upgrades are checked at T-59, 21, 10, 5 days, and at T-37 hours.

Final check most often actually takes place at approximately ~T-38 hours and you will be (most often) notified by email. In case you are denied an upgrade at this point and there is still revenue availability in J, you can contact CS which may be able to upgrade you on the spot or contact "another department" for confirmation. Furthermore, you may contact check-in desk at least in HEL, which may be able to process your upgrade.

You can check for the upgrades upon booking on the Finnair website. Each flight has a separate tab for "Upgrades", showing upgrade availability for PE and J if any exists, otherwise you will be waitlisted. Additionally, you may check your upgrade options for an already-booked flight here. EF gives you an idea of upgrade availability in the U bucket.


Upgrade-types
1. Upgrades with points
2. Upgrades with vouchers
3. Cash upgrades
5. Cash upgrades at airport
6. Complimentary upgrades

Upgrades with AY+ points

Requirements:
  • flight marketed and operated by AY (operated by Norra is also eligible as well as op by Iberia or Widerøe for Finnair as wetlease)
  • ticketed booking in paid economy (there must be a ticket number in your reservation)
  • all paid economy booking classes are eligible
  • award flights and points+money combos are ineligible (booking class X)
  • you cannot upgrade any codeshare flights
  • It is not required to have a Finnair-issued ticket (although this has now been required according to some experiences)
Cost:
  • Northern Europe (ARN, BGO, CPH, GOT, KEF, KRK, OSL, WAW, WRO) 10,000 points one way
  • Rest of Europe, TLV 15,000 points one way
  • long haul (including DXB, DOH) 60,000 points one way
    • Previously, shorthaul connections were upgraded at the same cost but this has been discontinued as of 15JUN23. If you wish to upgrade a shorthaul feeder flight, a separate points charge will apply.
  • there have been some occasional promotions especially for short haul upgrades (winter and summer campaigns)
Process:
  • When booking, you can check for direct upgrade availability on "Upgrades" tab or by looking on Expertflyer for U bucket
  • once you have a ticketed booking, you can process your upgrade or waitlist yourself for upgrade online here
  • you may also call AY to process your upgrade at a 1000-point surcharge (does not apply to PE->J upgrades not available online)
  • If there is no availability, you can waitlist. A waitlisted upgrade may clear within hours of your request or up to 37 hours before STD. If it doesn't clear, after T-37 you may call AY, use the chat or go to the check-in desk at the airport and enquire about an upgrade.
    • your status is one of the factors affecting your priority on the waitlist
    • If there is no SH availability you can still upgrade the LH and waitlist the shorthaul. You'll pay the same points price even if SH does not clear though.
    • NOTE: If you wish to reserve your seat in original class, select the desired seats before waitlisting. After waitlisting it is not possible to select seats via Manage My Booking, however one can do that via Chat or Call Center.
  • if you waitlist, your points will be taken from your account immediately; if the upgrade does not clear, your points will be returned to you but you will lose any points that have expired during the waiting time
  • your points need to be valid at time of processing the request but they do not need to be valid on the day of the flight
  • When confirmed, you will receive a new e-ticket showing booking class U (or F for Premium Economy) but you will receive points/miles according to your original booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)
  • Once you have a new ticket, your upgrade is confirmed. However, if J is overbooked on your flight, you will be among the first pax that AY will bump back into Y. J rarely gets overbooked, though.
  • as an unpublished perk, you may choose to change your upgrade from a points one to a voucher one by calling AY; your points will be returned to you save for any points that may have expired
  • If you change your mind about the upgrade you may conctact CS and ask to cancel the upgrade and have points returned. There likely must be seats left in Y cabin (or potentially, original booking class) to allow this, and your points expiry date must not have passed.

Perks:
  • Most of the J perks like priority check-in, priority security where available, lounge access, priority boarding. However the luggage allowance is one additional piece at 23kg (on top of your existing economy allowance).
  • you will receive points/miles according to your original economy class booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)

Upgrades with vouchers
Vouchers are given to Finnair+ members upon advancing to and retaining the platinum and gold tiers. You can see number of vouchers, their type and expiry in your Finnair+ account.

Requirements:
  • flight marketed and operated by AY (operated by Norra is also eligible as well as op by Iberia or Widerøe for Finnair as wetlease)
  • ticketed booking in economy (there must be a ticket number in your reservation)
  • all paid economy booking classes are eligible
  • award flights booked via AY+ are also eligible (booking class X)
  • most likely, points+money combos are eligible, too, since they book into X, but we have no verification of this
  • award flights booked via parners (eg. Avios, AAdvantage etc) are not eligible
  • you cannot upgrade any codeshare flights
  • It is not required to have a Finnair-issued ticket (although this has now been required according to some experiences)

Cost:
  • Northern Europe one "European" voucher for a one-way flight
  • Rest of Europe, TLV one "European" voucher for a one-way flight
  • longhaul (including DXB, DOH) one "Longhaul" voucher for a one-way flight
  • LH voucher does not include upgrade for connecting shorthaul (like it does with points upgrades), SH flight requires a separate voucher/points upgrade
  • you may exchange four European vouchers for one "Longhaul" voucher or vice versa by calling AY

Process:
  • When booking, you can check for direct upgrade availability on "Upgrades" tab or by looking on Expertflyer for U bucket
  • once you have a ticketed booking, you can process your upgrade or waitlist yourself for upgrade online here
  • you may also call AY to process your upgrade at a 1000-point surcharge (does not apply to PE->J upgrades not available online)
  • If there is no availability, you can waitlist. A waitlisted upgrade may clear within hours of your request or up to 37 hours before STD. If it doesn't clear, after T-37 you may call AY, use the chat or go to the check-in desk at the airport and enquire about an upgrade.
    • your status is one of the factors affecting your priority on the waitlist
    • If there is no SH availability you can still upgrade the LH and waitlist the shorthaul. You'll pay the same points price even if SH does not clear though.
    • NOTE: If you wish to reserve your seat in original class, select the desired seats before waitlisting. After waitlisting it is not possible to select seats via Manage My Booking, however one can do that via Chat or Call Center.
  • if you waitlist, your voucher will be taken from your account immediately; if the upgrade does not clear, your voucher will be returned to you but you will lose any vouchers that have expired during the waiting time
  • you will receive a new e-ticket showing booking class U but you will receive points/miles according to your original booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)
  • Once you have a new ticket, your upgrade is confirmed. However, if J is overbooked on your flight, you will be among the first pax that AY will bump back into Y. J rarely gets overbooked, though.
  • If you change your mind about the upgrade you can contact CS and ask to cancel the upgrade and have voucher returned. There likely must be seats left in Y cabin (or original booking class) to allow this, and your voucher expiry date must not have passed.

Perks:
  • all usual J perks like priority check-in, one additional piece of baggage (23kg), priority security where available, lounge access, priority boarding
  • you will receive points/miles according to your original economy class booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)

Cash upgrades, offered on website / app
On the app as well as on the upgrade tool you can review if an upgrade is offered at a cash price. The prices vary, and reports can be seen here. The cash prices become available at 60 days prior to departure and may fluctuate in the timeframe prior to departure.

Requirements:
  • flight marketed and operated by AY (or operated by Norra or Iberia or Widerøe for Finnair (wetlease))
  • ticketed booking in paid economy (there must be a ticket number in your reservation)
  • all paid economy booking classes are eligible
  • you cannot upgrade any codeshare flights
  • you do not need to be a AY+ member

Cost:
Process:
  • Check the app or the upgrade tool for cash prices (earliest 60 days prior to departure)
  • you will receive a new e-ticket showing booking class U but you will receive points/miles according to your original booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)
  • Once you have a new ticket, your upgrade is confirmed. However, if J is overbooked on your flight, you will be among the first pax that AY will bump back into Y. J rarely gets overbooked, though.

Perks:
  • Most of the J perks like priority check-in, priority security where available, lounge access, priority boarding. However the luggage allowance is one additional piece at 23kg (on top of your existing economy allowance).
  • you will receive points/miles according to your original economy class booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)

Upgrades paid in cash at the airport

(Note that according to recent reports, check-in agents are in some cases only able to process last-minute points and voucher upgrades.)

Requirements:
  • upgrades may be available for purchase at check-in
  • flight operated by AY or Norra
  • ticketed booking in economy
  • all paid economy booking classes are eligible
  • most likely AY+ & partner award flights in economy are eligible, too, though this is unconfirmed
  • the marketing carrier does not matter, so this is the only upgrade where codeshares are eligible

Cost:
  • varies, expect to pay some hundreds of euros for long haul one way

Process:
  • the upgrade will be processed and paid for at the check-in desk of the airport of departure
  • most likely the above means the airport of departure of that particular flight, so to upgrade HEL-BKK on a CPH-HEL-BKK itinerary, you would need to contact (transfer) check-in at HEL
  • you will receive points/miles according to your original booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)
  • Once you have a new ticket, your upgrade is confirmed. The odds of being bumped back into Y are close to 0 as AY will not offer these upgrades if J is overbooked

Perks:
  • Only in-flight perks apply
  • Lounge access, priority security, additional checked in baggage is not extended to airport upgraders
  • you will receive points/miles according to your original economy class booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)

Complimentary operational upgrades
  • usually just a new boarding pass & seat either at the gate, at check-in or even after you have boarded
  • few and far between
  • the decision whom to upgrade on a particular flight seems a bit random but is at least partially dependent on the price of your ticket, booking class and status
    • AY highest tier members (Lumos, Plats, Golds) are prioritised with the travelling party size affecting upgrade priority (i.e. if only one seat is available in J, the party will not be split)
  • you will receive points/miles according to your original economy class booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)
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The Big UPGRADE Thread – all you need to know about AY upgrades

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Old Sep 12, 2022, 11:14 pm
  #2371  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Seat 1L these days :)
Programs: AF Platinum/AY LUMO/SK EBG/baEC S/HYATT Globalist/MR LTP/A3 *G/HH Dia/IHG plat
Posts: 7,957
Originally Posted by Ukki
but DFW not the very best airport for transit. When arriving, immigration line was 50 min, SkyLink was broken for one direction, and Admirals Club was closed in domestic terminal C...
Yeah the transfer experience can be challenging
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Old Sep 12, 2022, 11:52 pm
  #2372  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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To be fair, immigration can be a pain in the ... at any US airport. I've done anything between 10 minutes to two hours at JFK and when last time arrived to SFO, I was in the queue for about 2.5 hours.
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Old Sep 13, 2022, 3:11 am
  #2373  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
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Posts: 48
Datapoint for PE upgrade: I had waitlisted a upgrades for HEL - JFK and JFK - HEL over the past weekend for 20k points each. Ended up not clearing and at the airport they were asking 241eu for the outbound upgrade and 308usd for the inbound. In retrospect I should have also asked about the cost of upgrading to business class as well because I don't see it being that much more. I even asked about upgrading on board just for giggles and was informed that I would need to go back up to the gate to do so (which I think is standard but I was hoping for some leniency seeing as my partner was already sitting in PE). Flight ended up leaving with empty seats in PE on both directions.
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Old Sep 13, 2022, 3:43 am
  #2374  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Helsinki-Vantaa APT, Finland
Programs: AY LUMO
Posts: 6,058
All You need to know abut AY upgrades and AY upgrade policy
Here it comes:

First, I want to say that my personal upgrade on this flight was ok and I'm very pleased with AY abut that. But.

AY2 LAX-HEL 11SEP22. Our travel companion had 4 upgrade requests and none of them realized. They had e-mail from AY and message was that due to high demand, upgrades are not available, sorry sorry. This aircraft was OH-LWC with main cabin C and mini cabin C.

IRL C cabin had 5 empty seats and after "boarding completed" 4 seats empty because one of the crew members family member or friend was pampered from Y to C.
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Old Sep 13, 2022, 3:50 am
  #2375  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: HEL
Programs: AY+Plat
Posts: 862
Originally Posted by OH-LGG

IRL C cabin had 5 empty seats and after "boarding completed" 4 seats empty because one of the crew members family member or friend was pampered from Y to C.
How fast AY has turned into AI.
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Old Sep 13, 2022, 3:57 am
  #2376  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Helsinki-Vantaa APT, Finland
Programs: AY LUMO
Posts: 6,058
Same relative/friend was kicked out of C on HEL-LAX
Probably one customer bought upgrade at the gate and this person had very fast "downgrade".

But again, for this flight our group had also upgrade requests (4) and zero was thru.

So, for friends and relatives AY can guarantee C seat but not for loyals.

AY is still like a state company from 1980's.
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Old Sep 13, 2022, 4:32 am
  #2377  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: HEL
Programs: AY+ plat / SK EBG
Posts: 36
I think AY's UG policy cannot sustain as it is. I mean trying to monetize the UG's in detriment of loyalty.

I can tell, that I have a quite pissed off colleague at the moment. We were on the same intra-EU flight last Friday. The colleague had waitlisted the UG, but it did not clear. The flight had only one row of business, but still it was only with two passengers. I am almost certain, that the other one was also an upgrade. So no "real" revenue from business class on that flight.

What I do not understand is the business logic behind the policy. Is it so, that there is only catering loaded for the exact number of passengers? If there was a last minute booking, would the cleared upgrades then be cancelled to make the catering available? This would make sense for a bean counter for sure.

Or is it just so, that not clearing points/vouchers upgrades when there are available seats is to try make people spend real money on the upgrades instead. I think it is. The consequence would be that sooner or later people will see their vouchers/points expire. Will that make them change program or not book AY? I suppose AY thinks not, and many of the FT folks here will say the contrary.

Or is there something else, that AY knows and won't tell anyone? Like a real good reason that justifies making loyal customers upset...
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Old Sep 13, 2022, 4:38 am
  #2378  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Helsinki-Vantaa APT, Finland
Programs: AY LUMO
Posts: 6,058
I understand that AY desperately needs money and times are hard but why at the gate when check-in is already closed and final passenger manifest before boarding is done, upgrade with points or voucher is not possible, only credit card is accepted at the gate.

And why only free C seat is for family member/friend and why is not for AY loyal.

Insane.

Last edited by OH-LGG; Sep 13, 2022 at 4:48 am
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Old Sep 13, 2022, 4:45 am
  #2379  
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When I got an opup, I got a meal. It seems there are spare meals loaded at times on European flights. YMMV.

Probably upgrading family member onboard is PIC decision. Most/All airlines have this. Probably not much to do with AY revman.
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Old Sep 13, 2022, 5:01 am
  #2380  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: HEL
Programs: AY+ plat / SK EBG
Posts: 36
Originally Posted by florens
When I got an opup, I got a meal. It seems there are spare meals loaded at times on European flights. YMMV.
I believe so. And in that case the only loss for AY for clearing an upgrade is the cost of the bottled drinks that the UG passenger enjoys and the lost opportunity to sell anything for the same customer while seated in economy. And that simply because no-one would actually spend real money on an intra-EU UG.
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Old Sep 13, 2022, 5:11 am
  #2381  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Helsinki-Vantaa APT, Finland
Programs: AY LUMO
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If this was my company I would make it like this:

At the gate when check-in is closed and number of pax is clear.
First I would call at the gate that 5 seats in C are available for xxx USD. please contact counter now.

Then after few minutes after if no sign of credit cards, I would call Tier members at desk and ask if they still want their requested upgrade. If yes, then new boarding pass and next Tier from the line.
Relatives and crew members friends stay in Y if all C seats are sold by cash or upgrade instruments for customers. If seats still free, then relatives or friends or whatever.

But AY follows its own way. Like it's said about AY in Finland, the company exists for its employees.
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Old Sep 13, 2022, 5:21 am
  #2382  
Moderator, Finnair
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
Programs: Eurobonus Diamond, QR Gold, AY+ Platinum, A3*G, Nordic Choice Lifetime Platinum, SJ Prio Black
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Originally Posted by OH-LGG
Same relative/friend was kicked out of C on HEL-LAX
Probably one customer bought upgrade at the gate and this person had very fast "downgrade".

But again, for this flight our group had also upgrade requests (4) and zero was thru.

So, for friends and relatives AY can guarantee C seat but not for loyals.

AY is still like a state company from 1980's.
Even a Russian state company, perhaps...



I think this "incident" highlights the current issues with Finnair loyalty. The reluctance to cater to AY+ members and particularly the pathetic excuses around the waitlist.
Indeed, if they sold all space, either as revenue seats or paid upgrade, then fine. But they just remove space from AY+ members and then don't even care to sell it. It speaks volume.
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Old Sep 13, 2022, 5:41 am
  #2383  
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Join Date: May 2011
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Programs: Eurobonus Diamond, QR Gold, AY+ Platinum, A3*G, Nordic Choice Lifetime Platinum, SJ Prio Black
Posts: 14,174
Originally Posted by OH-LGG
If this was my company I would make it like this:

At the gate when check-in is closed and number of pax is clear.
First I would call at the gate that 5 seats in C are available for xxx USD. please contact counter now.

Then after few minutes after if no sign of credit cards, I would call Tier members at desk and ask if they still want their requested upgrade. If yes, then new boarding pass and next Tier from the line.
Relatives and crew members friends stay in Y if all C seats are sold by cash or upgrade instruments for customers. If seats still free, then relatives or friends or whatever.

But AY follows its own way. Like it's said about AY in Finland, the company exists for its employees.
The only problem with this is that it just keeps on digging deeper with the flawed waitlist-structure. With such an process at the gate, they could just stop releasing U availability altogether. All tier members "precious" voucher upgrades would always go to waitlist. No need to periodically check waitlist. Only process it a few minutes before boarding.

If, and that is a big if, they returned to decent numbers of U seats, then sure. Remember, there used to be separate award and upgrade space and it used to be bookable months in advance. But do you see them returning to that? I think no.

Further down this rabbit hole is a bidding system for tier members. Because they have created a fake supply/demand balance, with many points/vouchers and few seats, the price obviously must go up.
"We have one seat available in Business class, the price is 300k points or 2 longhaul vouchers, please proceed to the gate within 1 minute if you agree on the terms!"
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Old Sep 15, 2022, 8:10 am
  #2384  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Here and there
Programs: AY Platinum (Lifetime Gold), HH Diamond, Hertz President's Circle
Posts: 152
I hate to report my first time ever non-cleared upgrade. No surprise this happened on SIN route, 13+ hours in whY is not nice... Not sure if too many friends and family members on board or just all revenue tickets were sold? However, I did see two business class seats on sale at T-37 via AY webpage - I don't have EF account so did not know the details of fare class(es) etc. I asked via WA if they can put me again on waitlist right after receiving email at T-37 but no can do. Points were credited back very fast though.
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Old Sep 16, 2022, 7:29 am
  #2385  
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Commiserations. Sad to see this seems to become a more and more frequent issue for top tier flyers... More vouchers out there but limited routes to use them on...

Made me think of that thread from a few years ago:

Finnair, stop waitlisted upgrades!

One thing is for sure. If my BKK LH upgrades don't clear, which I expect it to, then I'll convert the LH vouchers to SH ones. Until AY has better pricing for paid J I'll avoid them. I'm simply not paying 4k for a trip in J to BKK.

It would be interesting to have insight by FinnairPlus on the whole waitlist process. For reference, this was already discussed earlier in 2022: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/34225819-post1998.html
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