May 16, 2017, 1:37 pm
Last edit by: lkrt
General
Upgrade space is capacity controlled, separately from revenue space in J cabin. The number of seats released to the different upgrade types are driven by a number of factors, but never by the "there are unsold seats in J cabin, let's fill them" policy some other airlines employ. Same applies with upgrades to Premium Economy.
Upgrades now book into fare bucket U, which is also used for business class awards. Note that availability tools such as Expertflyer etc. may or may not show correct U availability as AY tends to offer additional U availability to Plats and Lumos, and this hidden availability is not shown by non-AY affiliated availability tools. Premium Economy upgrade availability is in bucket F, with the above disclaimers applying similarly.
You can upgrade and review the available upgrade options at https://www.finnair.com/en/manage/upgrade.
The searches below very often show zero availability. Very few directly confirmable seats are released in particularly longhaul J. Instead upgrades must go on waitlist, from where a robot processes upgrades from an unknown set of parameters. A waitlisted upgrade can clear in minutes or never, and there is no way to know. Waitlisted upgrades are checked at T-59, 21, 10, 5 days, and at T-37 hours.
Final check most often actually takes place at approximately ~T-38 hours and you will be (most often) notified by email. In case you are denied an upgrade at this point and there is still revenue availability in J, you can contact CS which may be able to upgrade you on the spot or contact "another department" for confirmation. Furthermore, you may contact check-in desk at least in HEL, which may be able to process your upgrade.
You can check for the upgrades upon booking on the Finnair website. Each flight has a separate tab for "Upgrades", showing upgrade availability for PE and J if any exists, otherwise you will be waitlisted. Additionally, you may check your upgrade options for an already-booked flight here. EF gives you an idea of upgrade availability in the U bucket.
Upgrade-types
1. Upgrades with points
2. Upgrades with vouchers
3. Cash upgrades
5. Cash upgrades at airport
6. Complimentary upgrades
Upgrades with AY+ points
Requirements:
Perks:
Upgrades with vouchers
Vouchers are given to Finnair+ members upon advancing to and retaining the platinum and gold tiers. You can see number of vouchers, their type and expiry in your Finnair+ account.
Requirements:
Cost:
Process:
Perks:
Cash upgrades, offered on website / app
On the app as well as on the upgrade tool you can review if an upgrade is offered at a cash price. The prices vary, and reports can be seen here. The cash prices become available at 60 days prior to departure and may fluctuate in the timeframe prior to departure.
Requirements:
Cost:
Process:
Perks:
Upgrades paid in cash at the airport
(Note that according to recent reports, check-in agents are in some cases only able to process last-minute points and voucher upgrades.)
Requirements:
Cost:
Process:
Perks:
Complimentary operational upgrades
Upgrade space is capacity controlled, separately from revenue space in J cabin. The number of seats released to the different upgrade types are driven by a number of factors, but never by the "there are unsold seats in J cabin, let's fill them" policy some other airlines employ. Same applies with upgrades to Premium Economy.
Upgrades now book into fare bucket U, which is also used for business class awards. Note that availability tools such as Expertflyer etc. may or may not show correct U availability as AY tends to offer additional U availability to Plats and Lumos, and this hidden availability is not shown by non-AY affiliated availability tools. Premium Economy upgrade availability is in bucket F, with the above disclaimers applying similarly.
You can upgrade and review the available upgrade options at https://www.finnair.com/en/manage/upgrade.
The searches below very often show zero availability. Very few directly confirmable seats are released in particularly longhaul J. Instead upgrades must go on waitlist, from where a robot processes upgrades from an unknown set of parameters. A waitlisted upgrade can clear in minutes or never, and there is no way to know. Waitlisted upgrades are checked at T-59, 21, 10, 5 days, and at T-37 hours.
Final check most often actually takes place at approximately ~T-38 hours and you will be (most often) notified by email. In case you are denied an upgrade at this point and there is still revenue availability in J, you can contact CS which may be able to upgrade you on the spot or contact "another department" for confirmation. Furthermore, you may contact check-in desk at least in HEL, which may be able to process your upgrade.
You can check for the upgrades upon booking on the Finnair website. Each flight has a separate tab for "Upgrades", showing upgrade availability for PE and J if any exists, otherwise you will be waitlisted. Additionally, you may check your upgrade options for an already-booked flight here. EF gives you an idea of upgrade availability in the U bucket.
Upgrade-types
1. Upgrades with points
2. Upgrades with vouchers
3. Cash upgrades
5. Cash upgrades at airport
6. Complimentary upgrades
Upgrades with AY+ points
Requirements:
- flight marketed and operated by AY (operated by Norra is also eligible as well as op by Iberia or Widerøe for Finnair as wetlease)
- ticketed booking in paid economy (there must be a ticket number in your reservation)
- all paid economy booking classes are eligible
- award flights and points+money combos are ineligible (booking class X)
- you cannot upgrade any codeshare flights
- It is not required to have a Finnair-issued ticket (although this has now been required according to some experiences)
- Northern Europe (ARN, BGO, CPH, GOT, KEF, KRK, OSL, WAW, WRO) 10,000 points one way
- Rest of Europe, TLV 15,000 points one way
- long haul (including DXB, DOH) 60,000 points one way
- Previously, shorthaul connections were upgraded at the same cost but this has been discontinued as of 15JUN23. If you wish to upgrade a shorthaul feeder flight, a separate points charge will apply.
- there have been some occasional promotions especially for short haul upgrades (winter and summer campaigns)
- When booking, you can check for direct upgrade availability on "Upgrades" tab or by looking on Expertflyer for U bucket
- once you have a ticketed booking, you can process your upgrade or waitlist yourself for upgrade online here
- you may also call AY to process your upgrade at a 1000-point surcharge (does not apply to PE->J upgrades not available online)
- If there is no availability, you can waitlist. A waitlisted upgrade may clear within hours of your request or up to 37 hours before STD. If it doesn't clear, after T-37 you may call AY, use the chat or go to the check-in desk at the airport and enquire about an upgrade.
- your status is one of the factors affecting your priority on the waitlist
- If there is no SH availability you can still upgrade the LH and waitlist the shorthaul. You'll pay the same points price even if SH does not clear though.
- NOTE: If you wish to reserve your seat in original class, select the desired seats before waitlisting. After waitlisting it is not possible to select seats via Manage My Booking, however one can do that via Chat or Call Center.
- if you waitlist, your points will be taken from your account immediately; if the upgrade does not clear, your points will be returned to you but you will lose any points that have expired during the waiting time
- your points need to be valid at time of processing the request but they do not need to be valid on the day of the flight
- When confirmed, you will receive a new e-ticket showing booking class U (or F for Premium Economy) but you will receive points/miles according to your original booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)
- Once you have a new ticket, your upgrade is confirmed. However, if J is overbooked on your flight, you will be among the first pax that AY will bump back into Y. J rarely gets overbooked, though.
- as an unpublished perk, you may choose to change your upgrade from a points one to a voucher one by calling AY; your points will be returned to you save for any points that may have expired
- If you change your mind about the upgrade you may conctact CS and ask to cancel the upgrade and have points returned. There likely must be seats left in Y cabin (or potentially, original booking class) to allow this, and your points expiry date must not have passed.
Perks:
- Most of the J perks like priority check-in, priority security where available, lounge access, priority boarding. However the luggage allowance is one additional piece at 23kg (on top of your existing economy allowance).
- you will receive points/miles according to your original economy class booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)
Upgrades with vouchers
Vouchers are given to Finnair+ members upon advancing to and retaining the platinum and gold tiers. You can see number of vouchers, their type and expiry in your Finnair+ account.
Requirements:
- flight marketed and operated by AY (operated by Norra is also eligible as well as op by Iberia or Widerøe for Finnair as wetlease)
- ticketed booking in economy (there must be a ticket number in your reservation)
- all paid economy booking classes are eligible
- award flights booked via AY+ are also eligible (booking class X)
- most likely, points+money combos are eligible, too, since they book into X, but we have no verification of this
- award flights booked via parners (eg. Avios, AAdvantage etc) are not eligible
- you cannot upgrade any codeshare flights
- It is not required to have a Finnair-issued ticket (although this has now been required according to some experiences)
Cost:
- Northern Europe one "European" voucher for a one-way flight
- Rest of Europe, TLV one "European" voucher for a one-way flight
- longhaul (including DXB, DOH) one "Longhaul" voucher for a one-way flight
- LH voucher does not include upgrade for connecting shorthaul (like it does with points upgrades), SH flight requires a separate voucher/points upgrade
- you may exchange four European vouchers for one "Longhaul" voucher or vice versa by calling AY
Process:
- When booking, you can check for direct upgrade availability on "Upgrades" tab or by looking on Expertflyer for U bucket
- once you have a ticketed booking, you can process your upgrade or waitlist yourself for upgrade online here
- you may also call AY to process your upgrade at a 1000-point surcharge (does not apply to PE->J upgrades not available online)
- If there is no availability, you can waitlist. A waitlisted upgrade may clear within hours of your request or up to 37 hours before STD. If it doesn't clear, after T-37 you may call AY, use the chat or go to the check-in desk at the airport and enquire about an upgrade.
- your status is one of the factors affecting your priority on the waitlist
- If there is no SH availability you can still upgrade the LH and waitlist the shorthaul. You'll pay the same points price even if SH does not clear though.
- NOTE: If you wish to reserve your seat in original class, select the desired seats before waitlisting. After waitlisting it is not possible to select seats via Manage My Booking, however one can do that via Chat or Call Center.
- if you waitlist, your voucher will be taken from your account immediately; if the upgrade does not clear, your voucher will be returned to you but you will lose any vouchers that have expired during the waiting time
- you will receive a new e-ticket showing booking class U but you will receive points/miles according to your original booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)
- Once you have a new ticket, your upgrade is confirmed. However, if J is overbooked on your flight, you will be among the first pax that AY will bump back into Y. J rarely gets overbooked, though.
- If you change your mind about the upgrade you can contact CS and ask to cancel the upgrade and have voucher returned. There likely must be seats left in Y cabin (or original booking class) to allow this, and your voucher expiry date must not have passed.
Perks:
- all usual J perks like priority check-in, one additional piece of baggage (23kg), priority security where available, lounge access, priority boarding
- you will receive points/miles according to your original economy class booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)
Cash upgrades, offered on website / app
On the app as well as on the upgrade tool you can review if an upgrade is offered at a cash price. The prices vary, and reports can be seen here. The cash prices become available at 60 days prior to departure and may fluctuate in the timeframe prior to departure.
Requirements:
- flight marketed and operated by AY (or operated by Norra or Iberia or Widerøe for Finnair (wetlease))
- ticketed booking in paid economy (there must be a ticket number in your reservation)
- all paid economy booking classes are eligible
- you cannot upgrade any codeshare flights
- you do not need to be a AY+ member
Cost:
- varies case by case
- for Europe, prices range from €50 to €200 one way
- for long hauls, DEL is the cheapest with prices as low as €200 one way, other destinations tend to be €350–€500
- this thread includes a wiki about prices and a lot of further information
- if you already paid for seat selection in Y (comfort) cabin, Finnair will refund that cost after upgrade if you ask them to.
Process:
- Check the app or the upgrade tool for cash prices (earliest 60 days prior to departure)
- you will receive a new e-ticket showing booking class U but you will receive points/miles according to your original booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)
- Once you have a new ticket, your upgrade is confirmed. However, if J is overbooked on your flight, you will be among the first pax that AY will bump back into Y. J rarely gets overbooked, though.
Perks:
- Most of the J perks like priority check-in, priority security where available, lounge access, priority boarding. However the luggage allowance is one additional piece at 23kg (on top of your existing economy allowance).
- you will receive points/miles according to your original economy class booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)
Upgrades paid in cash at the airport
(Note that according to recent reports, check-in agents are in some cases only able to process last-minute points and voucher upgrades.)
Requirements:
- upgrades may be available for purchase at check-in
- flight operated by AY or Norra
- ticketed booking in economy
- all paid economy booking classes are eligible
- most likely AY+ & partner award flights in economy are eligible, too, though this is unconfirmed
- the marketing carrier does not matter, so this is the only upgrade where codeshares are eligible
Cost:
- varies, expect to pay some hundreds of euros for long haul one way
Process:
- the upgrade will be processed and paid for at the check-in desk of the airport of departure
- most likely the above means the airport of departure of that particular flight, so to upgrade HEL-BKK on a CPH-HEL-BKK itinerary, you would need to contact (transfer) check-in at HEL
- you will receive points/miles according to your original booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)
- Once you have a new ticket, your upgrade is confirmed. The odds of being bumped back into Y are close to 0 as AY will not offer these upgrades if J is overbooked
Perks:
- Only in-flight perks apply
- Lounge access, priority security, additional checked in baggage is not extended to airport upgraders
- you will receive points/miles according to your original economy class booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)
Complimentary operational upgrades
- usually just a new boarding pass & seat either at the gate, at check-in or even after you have boarded
- few and far between
- the decision whom to upgrade on a particular flight seems a bit random but is at least partially dependent on the price of your ticket, booking class and status
- AY highest tier members (Lumos, Plats, Golds) are prioritised with the travelling party size affecting upgrade priority (i.e. if only one seat is available in J, the party will not be split)
- you will receive points/miles according to your original economy class booking class (this may require a retroclaim if earning on other programmes than AY+)
The Big UPGRADE Thread – all you need to know about AY upgrades
Sep 23, 2022, 3:51 am
#2401
Moderator, Finnair
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
Programs: Eurobonus Diamond, QR Gold, AY+ Platinum, A3*G, Nordic Choice Lifetime Platinum, SJ Prio Black
Posts: 14,174
This is someone that does not know but feel they need to explain and defend what happened. I'm sure the person truly believes this, but anyone with a bit of logic can surmise it is pure BS.
Sep 23, 2022, 4:17 am
#2402
Join Date: Mar 2022
Programs: AY+ Plat
Posts: 490
I am far from an expert on this so maybe this should go in the flame-free thread 
, but how much does it "cost" Finnair to bump a passenger from Y to U? I can understand the financial differences between selling that J seat full-price compared to a "free" upgrade, but I mean filling that seat via upgrade instead of flying with the J seat empty. 100 euros for the cost of meal/snack/drinks? Maybe I'm way off base here, but wouldn't it be wiser to allow upgrades to fill J instead of flying with empty J seats since the working cost of that upgrade is much, much less than the hit they will take from angry frequent flyers who cannot use their upgrade vouchers and thus no longer spend money on the airline (as some other posters are currently doing)?
, but how much does it "cost" Finnair to bump a passenger from Y to U? I can understand the financial differences between selling that J seat full-price compared to a "free" upgrade, but I mean filling that seat via upgrade instead of flying with the J seat empty. 100 euros for the cost of meal/snack/drinks? Maybe I'm way off base here, but wouldn't it be wiser to allow upgrades to fill J instead of flying with empty J seats since the working cost of that upgrade is much, much less than the hit they will take from angry frequent flyers who cannot use their upgrade vouchers and thus no longer spend money on the airline (as some other posters are currently doing)?
Sep 23, 2022, 4:53 am
#2403
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: HEL
Programs: AY Platinum, TK Elite, BT VIP, AA, BA, SK, DL, NT, WB + hotels
Posts: 8,749
I think this is a very interesting question, and one that I’ve been thinking about, too. The problem is, however, that I believe there are a hundred different answers, and they’re all correct.
On one end of the spectrum you have a case where a pax gets an op-up at the gate. There will be no costs for premium ground services. Pax will get a seat that would otherwise have remained empty. The costs include an amenity kit and slippers (probably less than 5 EUR), meals (let’s say 45 EUR*), drinks (AY J drinks are not particularly premium, and they’re tax&duty free, the average pax probably won’t wash down more than 15 EUR during a 10-hour flight) and the washing and cleaning of headphones and bedding (3 EUR max?). That’s 68 EUR for a long-haul flight if my prices are in the right league. Overbooking Y costs 600 EUR/pax + possible hotels and/or rebookings on other airlines, so op-ups to J are practically free for AY.
On the other end of the spectrum you have a AY+ Basic member who will potentially buy a J ticket if the price is right. But if there is upgrade availability, he will only buy a Y ticket and use points to upgrade. Say the J ticket is 1300 EUR ow and the Y ticket 300 EUR ow – quite a big loss to begin with. Then the Basic pax uses priority security (AY pays to the airport), the lounge (AY pays to the lounge operator), packs an extra bag and eats&drinks for the 68 EUR on board. This would be very expensive for AY because the other alternative would have been to show the pax U0 and have them buy a J ticket!
And in the middle you have a AY Platsku who will only buy Y tickets, who would never consider paying for J so there is no additional potential revenue to be had, who uses priority security and lounges anyway, who perhaps doesn’t check a bag so there will be no extra costs for that etc. To give him a seat that will otherwise remain empty in J doesn’t really cost AY much more than the 68 EUR we just calculated. But it makes sense to upgrade him last-minute to make sure those seats are available for purchase if a paying customer turns up.
* many many years ago, I read somewhere that a generic Y hot meal tray costs the airline (not AY in particular) about 20 USD. That’s quite a lot of money for what you get, and of course it’s not the ingredients, but all the logistics that make up the costs. The watered-down penny-pinched J meals AY serves today are not far from a substantial longhaul Y meal 20+ years ago. If we guess 25 USD/EUR for the first meal and 15 for the second, plus 5 for snacks, that amounts to 45 USD/EUR for the meal service, excluding drinks. Might be more for flights ex-HEL or ex-US, and definitely less for flights departing from cheap countries.
On one end of the spectrum you have a case where a pax gets an op-up at the gate. There will be no costs for premium ground services. Pax will get a seat that would otherwise have remained empty. The costs include an amenity kit and slippers (probably less than 5 EUR), meals (let’s say 45 EUR*), drinks (AY J drinks are not particularly premium, and they’re tax&duty free, the average pax probably won’t wash down more than 15 EUR during a 10-hour flight) and the washing and cleaning of headphones and bedding (3 EUR max?). That’s 68 EUR for a long-haul flight if my prices are in the right league. Overbooking Y costs 600 EUR/pax + possible hotels and/or rebookings on other airlines, so op-ups to J are practically free for AY.
On the other end of the spectrum you have a AY+ Basic member who will potentially buy a J ticket if the price is right. But if there is upgrade availability, he will only buy a Y ticket and use points to upgrade. Say the J ticket is 1300 EUR ow and the Y ticket 300 EUR ow – quite a big loss to begin with. Then the Basic pax uses priority security (AY pays to the airport), the lounge (AY pays to the lounge operator), packs an extra bag and eats&drinks for the 68 EUR on board. This would be very expensive for AY because the other alternative would have been to show the pax U0 and have them buy a J ticket!
And in the middle you have a AY Platsku who will only buy Y tickets, who would never consider paying for J so there is no additional potential revenue to be had, who uses priority security and lounges anyway, who perhaps doesn’t check a bag so there will be no extra costs for that etc. To give him a seat that will otherwise remain empty in J doesn’t really cost AY much more than the 68 EUR we just calculated. But it makes sense to upgrade him last-minute to make sure those seats are available for purchase if a paying customer turns up.
* many many years ago, I read somewhere that a generic Y hot meal tray costs the airline (not AY in particular) about 20 USD. That’s quite a lot of money for what you get, and of course it’s not the ingredients, but all the logistics that make up the costs. The watered-down penny-pinched J meals AY serves today are not far from a substantial longhaul Y meal 20+ years ago. If we guess 25 USD/EUR for the first meal and 15 for the second, plus 5 for snacks, that amounts to 45 USD/EUR for the meal service, excluding drinks. Might be more for flights ex-HEL or ex-US, and definitely less for flights departing from cheap countries.
Sep 23, 2022, 6:26 am
#2404
Moderator, Finnair
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
Programs: Eurobonus Diamond, QR Gold, AY+ Platinum, A3*G, Nordic Choice Lifetime Platinum, SJ Prio Black
Posts: 14,174
The actual cost is one thing. While it may look small, today's Finnair seems focused on cost-cutting, even when it makes no finacial sense. Like "don't spend money on marketing, even if 1€ costs results in 2€ profit". I the truth inside Finnair is like that, perhaps they even value your performance based on cost reductions, then it makes sense (to them) to deny upgrades because it saves money.
Another thing is what they value the seat to. They could be looking at upgrades from a purely revenue stand-point. "We have two seats unsold, and revman predicts the market price for those are 4 000 €, with a likelyhood of 47% they will be sold at T-36. As upgrades are valued at 1500€, and thus generates less revenue (4k x 47% = 1880€), we won't clear them off the waitlist".
A third thing is that someone has been given a target to raise ancillary revenue. This person's performance is meassured in a vaccuum - if s/he sells upgrades for 1000€ more than last month, target is reached and bonus is due. This person benefits from minimizing competition from both revenue and upgrade seats. It is probably easier for this person to "steal" revenue from loyalty and sales than get it from the open market. So this person will lobby for having as few seats as possible "sold" by loyalty and sales. This person will rather have 10 seats in his own bucket and sell 2 of them and waste 8 of them, instead of having to compete with other internal departments for seats.
And lastly, pure incompetence. The "we can't access Finnair+ program after T-36 so you can't upgrade by points/vouchers". Soemone upgraded or moved a system to the clound and didn't think/care about integrations.
Another thing is what they value the seat to. They could be looking at upgrades from a purely revenue stand-point. "We have two seats unsold, and revman predicts the market price for those are 4 000 €, with a likelyhood of 47% they will be sold at T-36. As upgrades are valued at 1500€, and thus generates less revenue (4k x 47% = 1880€), we won't clear them off the waitlist".
A third thing is that someone has been given a target to raise ancillary revenue. This person's performance is meassured in a vaccuum - if s/he sells upgrades for 1000€ more than last month, target is reached and bonus is due. This person benefits from minimizing competition from both revenue and upgrade seats. It is probably easier for this person to "steal" revenue from loyalty and sales than get it from the open market. So this person will lobby for having as few seats as possible "sold" by loyalty and sales. This person will rather have 10 seats in his own bucket and sell 2 of them and waste 8 of them, instead of having to compete with other internal departments for seats.
And lastly, pure incompetence. The "we can't access Finnair+ program after T-36 so you can't upgrade by points/vouchers". Soemone upgraded or moved a system to the clound and didn't think/care about integrations.
Sep 23, 2022, 7:12 am
#2405
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: HEL
Programs: AY Plat Lumo, SK Gold
Posts: 954
And in the middle you have a AY Platsku who will only buy Y tickets, who would never consider paying for J so there is no additional potential revenue to be had, who uses priority security and lounges anyway, who perhaps doesn’t check a bag so there will be no extra costs for that etc. To give him a seat that will otherwise remain empty in J doesn’t really cost AY much more than the 68 EUR we just calculated. But it makes sense to upgrade him last-minute to make sure those seats are available for purchase if a paying customer turns up.
But it seems there are a lot of people here who will pay for cash upgrades when upgrades by points or vouchers are not available - people who simply refuse to fly long-haul Y. Maybe AY has noticed that there are enough such customers and it's good business for them to deny point/voucher upgrades, as someone will upgrade then by cash. And all AY cares for at the moment is the short-term cash flow.
Sep 23, 2022, 7:31 am
#2406
Join Date: Aug 2022
Location: Hel
Programs: AY Plat
Posts: 259
Or it is somebody who does know and choses to tell outright lie thinking the customers don't know better.
Sep 23, 2022, 7:52 am
#2407
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: HEL
Programs: AY Platinum, TK Elite, BT VIP, AA, BA, SK, DL, NT, WB + hotels
Posts: 8,749
I for one would gladly pay 300 EUR for a longhaul upgrade. I'm not paying for the food or drinks, but for the seat. I've just become so spoiled that a long flight in a Y seat is something I'll avoid if possible.
Sep 23, 2022, 12:14 pm
#2409
Moderator, Finnair
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
Programs: Eurobonus Diamond, QR Gold, AY+ Platinum, A3*G, Nordic Choice Lifetime Platinum, SJ Prio Black
Posts: 14,174
...
But it seems there are a lot of people here who will pay for cash upgrades when upgrades by points or vouchers are not available - people who simply refuse to fly long-haul Y. Maybe AY has noticed that there are enough such customers and it's good business for them to deny point/voucher upgrades, as someone will upgrade then by cash. And all AY cares for at the moment is the short-term cash flow.
But it seems there are a lot of people here who will pay for cash upgrades when upgrades by points or vouchers are not available - people who simply refuse to fly long-haul Y. Maybe AY has noticed that there are enough such customers and it's good business for them to deny point/voucher upgrades, as someone will upgrade then by cash. And all AY cares for at the moment is the short-term cash flow.
Not that I would buy an upgrade, because I wouldn't put myself in a situation where I would be at the mercy of the upgrade lottery. I will rather stay at home than to fly Finnair longhaul Y. In my line of work, having customers become non-consumers is worse than just losing them to the competition, but maybe FInnair is on to someting sustainable here!
You may be right that they are able to cash in on upgraders and that cash-is-king these days. And short term is all they care about. But even if we ignore the damage to loyalty and long term viability, they don't seem to be able to sell these upgrades very well. If this was the silver bullet and a money making scheme, why aren't J-cabin filled with upgrades on every flight ?
Spoiled or not, I think a lot of the flying we want to do is not doable unless seated in J. A few days in Singapore is just not enjoyable without the mid-air sleep and thus J cabin is what enables it. At least for me that's the case. It is not about going in J or Y, it is about going or staying at home.
Sep 23, 2022, 3:52 pm
#2410
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: HEL
Programs: AY Plat Lumo, SK Gold
Posts: 954
In the current state of things with AY, the cash upgrades don't need to be a money-making machine. AY is in a crisis and even if they can sell only a few cash upgrades more by not giving out upgrades with points or vouchers, they seem to be happy with it. At the moment, every penny of revenue seems to count, and loyalty doesn't.
Sep 23, 2022, 4:56 pm
#2411
Ambassador: Finnair
Join Date: May 2003
Location: HEL
Programs: AY Lumo, BA Silver, HHonors Gold
Posts: 4,267
I have, however, SIN PE out/J in soon and it looks like it’s indeed going to be PE out, upgrade not clearing. First LH outside J since I was a young man so it’s been a while..🙈 If airport upgrades are avaiable I’m keen to
learn how much it would be and how much would I be ready to pay in reality..
Sep 23, 2022, 5:07 pm
#2412
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Sweet Home Chicago
Programs: Hilton Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 646
Hey, you just described me!
Not that I would buy an upgrade, because I wouldn't put myself in a situation where I would be at the mercy of the upgrade lottery. I will rather stay at home than to fly Finnair longhaul Y. In my line of work, having customers become non-consumers is worse than just losing them to the competition, but maybe FInnair is on to someting sustainable here!
You may be right that they are able to cash in on upgraders and that cash-is-king these days. And short term is all they care about. But even if we ignore the damage to loyalty and long term viability, they don't seem to be able to sell these upgrades very well. If this was the silver bullet and a money making scheme, why aren't J-cabin filled with upgrades on every flight ?
Spoiled or not, I think a lot of the flying we want to do is not doable unless seated in J. A few days in Singapore is just not enjoyable without the mid-air sleep and thus J cabin is what enables it. At least for me that's the case. It is not about going in J or Y, it is about going or staying at home.
Not that I would buy an upgrade, because I wouldn't put myself in a situation where I would be at the mercy of the upgrade lottery. I will rather stay at home than to fly Finnair longhaul Y. In my line of work, having customers become non-consumers is worse than just losing them to the competition, but maybe FInnair is on to someting sustainable here!
You may be right that they are able to cash in on upgraders and that cash-is-king these days. And short term is all they care about. But even if we ignore the damage to loyalty and long term viability, they don't seem to be able to sell these upgrades very well. If this was the silver bullet and a money making scheme, why aren't J-cabin filled with upgrades on every flight ?
Spoiled or not, I think a lot of the flying we want to do is not doable unless seated in J. A few days in Singapore is just not enjoyable without the mid-air sleep and thus J cabin is what enables it. At least for me that's the case. It is not about going in J or Y, it is about going or staying at home.
Another thing to consider in this discussion besides the actual cost of the upgrade is the devaluation of the product. Airlines obsess about this which is why you don’t see a lot of low value (to the airline) upgrades. Even US carriers that upgrade everyone on domestic flights for free based on status (F cabins are never not full), won’t do that on long hauls. Buy it or you don’t get it. Now elites have a variety of ways to buy it, but they gotta buy it. Everyone else it’s cash or coach.
Sep 23, 2022, 5:56 pm
#2413
Join Date: May 2015
Location: ATL/MCO
Programs: Costco Executive, RaceTrac Sultan of Soda, Chick-fil-A Red
Posts: 5,662
I've gotten to the point that I'll outright pay for longhaul J when my budget allows it and stay at home when it doesn't or can't redeem miles. Good F&B selection is an added bonus, at the end of the day what I need is a decent seat. ZIPAIR Tokyo sells LAX-NRT for ~$1600 r/t, catch is that it doesn't come with any catering or lounge access but I'm willing to forgo that given the price point.
Sep 23, 2022, 11:52 pm
#2414
Moderator, Finnair
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
Programs: Eurobonus Diamond, QR Gold, AY+ Platinum, A3*G, Nordic Choice Lifetime Platinum, SJ Prio Black
Posts: 14,174
Me three. I’m playing the lottery right now on ORD-HEL for next summer. Bought refundable Y in the hopes of getting a good upgrade offer but if that doesn’t materialize I will buy J. Not sitting in Y, nope.
Another thing to consider in this discussion besides the actual cost of the upgrade is the devaluation of the product. Airlines obsess about this which is why you don’t see a lot of low value (to the airline) upgrades. Even US carriers that upgrade everyone on domestic flights for free based on status (F cabins are never not full), won’t do that on long hauls. Buy it or you don’t get it. Now elites have a variety of ways to buy it, but they gotta buy it. Everyone else it’s cash or coach.
Another thing to consider in this discussion besides the actual cost of the upgrade is the devaluation of the product. Airlines obsess about this which is why you don’t see a lot of low value (to the airline) upgrades. Even US carriers that upgrade everyone on domestic flights for free based on status (F cabins are never not full), won’t do that on long hauls. Buy it or you don’t get it. Now elites have a variety of ways to buy it, but they gotta buy it. Everyone else it’s cash or coach.
The "family upgrade" perk is one of those smart perks that brought in cash. It gave incentive to the businetic crowd to fly business on holidays, because they could upgrade the rest of the family with ease. Now, for that to work, you need to have at least 2-3 seats open and you need to show them several months out.
Who would today gamble 7-8k€, buy one J ticket and 2-3 Y tickets for the rest of the family and hope that 2-3 U seats will appear at T-37? It is one thing to go on a business trip where employer pays only for Y and hope for an upgrade to clear. It is a very different thing to do that gamble with the entire family, on a trip that matters.
I am pretty sure AY+ members are now booking family trips with someone else, because it will be cheaper, with same or better quality. Not to mention the resentment members feels knowing they have the status and the points to get the family perk in theory and that in practice the perk is removed.
Sep 27, 2022, 5:54 pm
#2415
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: HEL, KUL
Programs: BA Gold, TK*G, AY Plat
Posts: 65
Could anyone with EF inform what is the availability for AY144, BKK-HEL tomorrow, 29 Sept in J C D?
Got my voucher UG request denied at t-37hrs after 2 months on the waitlist as an AY Plat.
Any advice how to be added again on the waitlist? I am not paying them a single penny for a cash UG, if my vouchers don't clear.
Got my voucher UG request denied at t-37hrs after 2 months on the waitlist as an AY Plat.
Any advice how to be added again on the waitlist? I am not paying them a single penny for a cash UG, if my vouchers don't clear.