Nov 4, 2015, 9:05 am
Last edit by: OH-LGG
Finnair (AY) company website dedicated for A350 fleet can be found HERE
!!
bold= new cabin
!!
A350 Deliveries
OH-LWA (msn 18) delivered 7th Oct 2015 is the first Finnair A350 and started long-haul operations as AY57 to PVG on 21st Nov 2015.
OH-LWB (msn 19) was delivered 14th Dec 2015, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 19th Dec 2015.
OH-LWC (msn 20) was delivered 31st Dec 2015, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 3rd Jan 2016.
OH-LWD (msn 22) was delivered 25th Mar 2016, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 28th Mar 2016.
OH-LWE (msn 23) was delivered 29th Apr 2016, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 1st May 2016
OH-LWF (msn 28) was delivered 25th Jun 2016, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 27th Jun 2016
OH-LWG (msn 51) was delivered 29th Sep 2016, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 30th Sep 2016
OH-LWH (msn 97) was delivered 04th Apr 2017, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 5th Apr 2017
OH-LWI (msn 104) was delivered 02nd Jun 2017, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 5th Jun 2017
OH-LWK (msn 113) was delivered 30th Jun 2017, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 3rd Jul 2017
OH-LWL (msn 134) was delivered on 22th Sep 2017, started as AY 831 to LHR on 27th Sep 2017 and started longhauls on 29th Sep 2017 as AY89 to BKK.
OH-LWM (msn 264) was delivered on 13th Dec 2018, started long-haul operations as AY73 to NRT on 19th Dec 2018
OH-LWN (msn 273) was delivered on 13th Feb 2019, started long-haul operations as AY73 to NRT on 16th Feb 2019
OH-LWO (msn 300) was delivered on 26th Apr 2019, started long haul operations as AY141 to BKK on 29th Apr 2019
OH-LWP (msn 392) was delivered on 10th Feb 2020, started long haul operations as AY141 to BKK on 13th Feb 2020
OH-LWR (msn 410) was delivered on 1st Sep 2020, started long haul operations as AY141 to BKK on 8th Sep 2020
OH-LWS (msn 516) was delivered on 29th Dec 2021, started long haul operations as AY87 to PVG (cargo only) on 24th Jan 2022, first pax service on 28th Feb 2022 as AY9
Seating
2 different configurations exists.
J/46 Y/251: Features 2 J cabins. First 8 birds and 12th(LWA-LWH, LWM) has this config
J/32 Y/304: The minicabin is removed and replaced with Y seating. Babycots in 1L and 41L. Birds 9-11, 13, 15 (LWI-LWL, LWN, LWP) has this config, a.k.a. marsuhäkki config.
Complete seatmap and layout of config 1 can be found HERE and config 2 is here.
Business Class features Zodiac Cirrus III full-flat bed seats in a 1-2-1 abreast config, all seats with direct access to the aisle. Config1 has two business class cabins, row1-8 and 9-12, while config2 only has one (row 1-8). Early reviews has preferred front cabin over minicabin, and for best window seat, row 2 or 1 may be preferable, row 1 for aisle seats.
As operations of A350 has matured, it has become practice to set the snack-bar on top of the cupboard in front of row 1, making row 1 experience a lot of foot traffic and noise.
Config2 also suffers from low toilet/pax quota (2 toilets / 32 pax) as the aft toilets has been assigned to the high density Y cabin, further contributing to high foot traffic in the front of the cabin. For these reasons, a seat further to the back may be preferable. However, all service start in the front and it will usually take a long time to get your meal in row 8.
For couples travelling together there is no clear choice. DH-seats are tilted towards each-other, but you still will not see the other person without leaning forwards. Seat across aisles (AD and HL respectively) has no barriers between them, but are tilted the wrong way and rows are also slightly misaligned.
Economy Comfort on A350 has the exact same seats as in economy, but with ≈4" inches more legroom. They also come with noise cancelling headphones, 1h internet, priority boarding and a small amenity kit.
Finnair platinums and OWE members can select these seats for free. (OWE must call to do so). Other passengers can select comfort seats for a fee, and seats are also sold after boarding.
On config1 comfort is row 21-25, while on config 2 comfort is row 21-24 + 25ABC and 25JKL. Row 21 is bulkhead and has slightly more space, as no seat reclines into the space. None of the configs has that super-space found on some retrofitted A330 though.
On config1 21AC and 21JL are the only paired seats making them preferable, but if you want to have IFE screen in the seat in front of you, pick row 22. On config2 all seats are in groups of 3, and it is also recommended to stay away from row 21 entirely, as it is entangled with the toilets.
In terms of space there are no seats in comfort cabin on either config that beats exit row 41A/C/J/L or 42A/L.
Economy Class features 3-3-3 abreast slimline seating with 32" pitch. The best seats are row 41 with most legroom on A/C/J/L (but they lack window), and row 42 A/L.
These are either labled "extra legroom" or "exit row" and are selectable with status or for a fee.
Economy cabin offers USB for charge - no AC outlets.
In-Flight Entertainment
IFE system is upgraded. Bigger screens, wider selection of movies and music, route mapper and control options. You can watch a movie from start to landing. You will have Bose noise-cancelling earphones in business class and in Economy comfort, and earplugs in economy class.
Wifi: you will see a code (in business class) in the screen when you open the IFE and select language. In economy class, you need to ask cabin crew for a voucher code if you are OWS/OWE, otherwise it costs you 7,95€ per hour, 11,95€ per three hours or 19,95€ for the whole flight. It may take some time until up in the air to get it started. Log in is required, once you have created an account and password, the system will recognize you next time.
Quality issues and early refurbishment
The seats in business class have had many quality issues from day one. Apart from some inherent problems with the seat design, there are also malfunctions and abnormal wear.
As every row has slightly different pitch, fittings and trimmings have had to de adopted manually. Apart from causing delays in delivery, this also has led to many things in the cabin tend to come loose, to squeak and to break.
In june 2017 it was announced that Airbus has accepted responsibility for the quality issues and will replace every seat on every plane delivered until that point in time (9 birds).
The refurbish will take place during the first round of major maintenance round, scheduled to start later this year.
There is no information if there will be any changes made at the same time (addressing complaints about cramped seats and missing stowage space for example), but most likely this is treated as a warranty action and so cabin will be equipped with the exact same seats and layout, albeit with a newer batch of seats.
More details and discussion:
FAM (Familiarization) flights were ongoing within European destinations until the first A350 aircraft was put on regular long-haul service on 21st November 2015. Here is a list of FAM flights quoted by a FT'er.
The "famous" introduction list with initial experiences can be found in THIS thread
Discussion about the first long-haul services and experiences can be found in another THREAD
Links to many trip reports can be found in https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/finn...ion-links.html.
!!
bold= new cabin
!!
A350 Deliveries
OH-LWA (msn 18) delivered 7th Oct 2015 is the first Finnair A350 and started long-haul operations as AY57 to PVG on 21st Nov 2015.
OH-LWB (msn 19) was delivered 14th Dec 2015, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 19th Dec 2015.
OH-LWC (msn 20) was delivered 31st Dec 2015, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 3rd Jan 2016.
OH-LWD (msn 22) was delivered 25th Mar 2016, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 28th Mar 2016.
OH-LWE (msn 23) was delivered 29th Apr 2016, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 1st May 2016
OH-LWF (msn 28) was delivered 25th Jun 2016, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 27th Jun 2016
OH-LWG (msn 51) was delivered 29th Sep 2016, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 30th Sep 2016
OH-LWH (msn 97) was delivered 04th Apr 2017, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 5th Apr 2017
OH-LWI (msn 104) was delivered 02nd Jun 2017, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 5th Jun 2017
OH-LWK (msn 113) was delivered 30th Jun 2017, started long-haul operations as AY89 to BKK on 3rd Jul 2017
OH-LWL (msn 134) was delivered on 22th Sep 2017, started as AY 831 to LHR on 27th Sep 2017 and started longhauls on 29th Sep 2017 as AY89 to BKK.
OH-LWM (msn 264) was delivered on 13th Dec 2018, started long-haul operations as AY73 to NRT on 19th Dec 2018
OH-LWN (msn 273) was delivered on 13th Feb 2019, started long-haul operations as AY73 to NRT on 16th Feb 2019
OH-LWO (msn 300) was delivered on 26th Apr 2019, started long haul operations as AY141 to BKK on 29th Apr 2019
OH-LWP (msn 392) was delivered on 10th Feb 2020, started long haul operations as AY141 to BKK on 13th Feb 2020
OH-LWR (msn 410) was delivered on 1st Sep 2020, started long haul operations as AY141 to BKK on 8th Sep 2020
OH-LWS (msn 516) was delivered on 29th Dec 2021, started long haul operations as AY87 to PVG (cargo only) on 24th Jan 2022, first pax service on 28th Feb 2022 as AY9
Seating
2 different configurations exists.
J/46 Y/251: Features 2 J cabins. First 8 birds and 12th(LWA-LWH, LWM) has this config
J/32 Y/304: The minicabin is removed and replaced with Y seating. Babycots in 1L and 41L. Birds 9-11, 13, 15 (LWI-LWL, LWN, LWP) has this config, a.k.a. marsuhäkki config.
Complete seatmap and layout of config 1 can be found HERE and config 2 is here.
Business Class features Zodiac Cirrus III full-flat bed seats in a 1-2-1 abreast config, all seats with direct access to the aisle. Config1 has two business class cabins, row1-8 and 9-12, while config2 only has one (row 1-8). Early reviews has preferred front cabin over minicabin, and for best window seat, row 2 or 1 may be preferable, row 1 for aisle seats.
As operations of A350 has matured, it has become practice to set the snack-bar on top of the cupboard in front of row 1, making row 1 experience a lot of foot traffic and noise.
Config2 also suffers from low toilet/pax quota (2 toilets / 32 pax) as the aft toilets has been assigned to the high density Y cabin, further contributing to high foot traffic in the front of the cabin. For these reasons, a seat further to the back may be preferable. However, all service start in the front and it will usually take a long time to get your meal in row 8.
For couples travelling together there is no clear choice. DH-seats are tilted towards each-other, but you still will not see the other person without leaning forwards. Seat across aisles (AD and HL respectively) has no barriers between them, but are tilted the wrong way and rows are also slightly misaligned.
Economy Comfort on A350 has the exact same seats as in economy, but with ≈4" inches more legroom. They also come with noise cancelling headphones, 1h internet, priority boarding and a small amenity kit.
Finnair platinums and OWE members can select these seats for free. (OWE must call to do so). Other passengers can select comfort seats for a fee, and seats are also sold after boarding.
On config1 comfort is row 21-25, while on config 2 comfort is row 21-24 + 25ABC and 25JKL. Row 21 is bulkhead and has slightly more space, as no seat reclines into the space. None of the configs has that super-space found on some retrofitted A330 though.
On config1 21AC and 21JL are the only paired seats making them preferable, but if you want to have IFE screen in the seat in front of you, pick row 22. On config2 all seats are in groups of 3, and it is also recommended to stay away from row 21 entirely, as it is entangled with the toilets.
In terms of space there are no seats in comfort cabin on either config that beats exit row 41A/C/J/L or 42A/L.
Economy Class features 3-3-3 abreast slimline seating with 32" pitch. The best seats are row 41 with most legroom on A/C/J/L (but they lack window), and row 42 A/L.
These are either labled "extra legroom" or "exit row" and are selectable with status or for a fee.
Economy cabin offers USB for charge - no AC outlets.
In-Flight Entertainment
IFE system is upgraded. Bigger screens, wider selection of movies and music, route mapper and control options. You can watch a movie from start to landing. You will have Bose noise-cancelling earphones in business class and in Economy comfort, and earplugs in economy class.
Wifi: you will see a code (in business class) in the screen when you open the IFE and select language. In economy class, you need to ask cabin crew for a voucher code if you are OWS/OWE, otherwise it costs you 7,95€ per hour, 11,95€ per three hours or 19,95€ for the whole flight. It may take some time until up in the air to get it started. Log in is required, once you have created an account and password, the system will recognize you next time.
Quality issues and early refurbishment
The seats in business class have had many quality issues from day one. Apart from some inherent problems with the seat design, there are also malfunctions and abnormal wear.
As every row has slightly different pitch, fittings and trimmings have had to de adopted manually. Apart from causing delays in delivery, this also has led to many things in the cabin tend to come loose, to squeak and to break.
In june 2017 it was announced that Airbus has accepted responsibility for the quality issues and will replace every seat on every plane delivered until that point in time (9 birds).
The refurbish will take place during the first round of major maintenance round, scheduled to start later this year.
There is no information if there will be any changes made at the same time (addressing complaints about cramped seats and missing stowage space for example), but most likely this is treated as a warranty action and so cabin will be equipped with the exact same seats and layout, albeit with a newer batch of seats.
More details and discussion:
FAM (Familiarization) flights were ongoing within European destinations until the first A350 aircraft was put on regular long-haul service on 21st November 2015. Here is a list of FAM flights quoted by a FT'er.
The "famous" introduction list with initial experiences can be found in THIS thread
Discussion about the first long-haul services and experiences can be found in another THREAD
Links to many trip reports can be found in https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/finn...ion-links.html.
Finnair A350 XWB master thread
Jan 19, 2016, 5:11 am
#91
Join Date: May 2014
Location: HEL
Programs: AY+Plat, ALL Plat
Posts: 3,630
Ah but this is Finnair. They are always on-time as we all know (especially their HEL-HKG service). So by definition, if they are late, then it is exceptional and no compensation is due. Or something.
Jan 20, 2016, 7:53 am
#93
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: HEL
Programs: AY+ Gold
Posts: 428
AY has huge problems with A350 routes. Yesterday PEK was switched to A333 while OH-LWB stayed in HEL and LWC went to BKK. LWC had today a 7 hour turnaround in BKK and is expected to arrive 4,5hours late to HEL.
LWC has most likely some problems to be fixed because AY cancelled PEK today, when they could have taken LWC there with ~3hour delay.
Tomorrow LWA will switch JFK to BKK, so again ~1600 miles more to be flown by A350 every day. Let's see how that goes...
LWC has most likely some problems to be fixed because AY cancelled PEK today, when they could have taken LWC there with ~3hour delay.
Tomorrow LWA will switch JFK to BKK, so again ~1600 miles more to be flown by A350 every day. Let's see how that goes...
Jan 20, 2016, 8:08 am
#94
Moderator, Finnair
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
Programs: EB Diamond, M&M SEN, QR Gold, AY+ Gold, A3*G, Nordic Choice Lifetime Platinum, SJ Prio Black
Posts: 14,314
I find this a bit worrying. The delay in delivery from Airbus is one thing, but this seems to indicate either issues with aircraft already accepted by AY or issues inside AY operations when it comes to handle the new aircraft model.
Jan 20, 2016, 8:16 am
#95
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: HEL
Programs: AY Platinum, TK Elite, BT VIP, AA, BA, SK, DL, NT, WB + hotels
Posts: 8,931
When did they make the decision of canceling? Would be interesting to know – surely they could have rerouted the pax ARN-XXX-PEK instead of stranding them at HEL. Then again, it's probably cheaper for AY to but them on the CKG flight...
Jan 20, 2016, 8:49 am
#96
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: HEL
Programs: AY, SK, TK
Posts: 7,694
AY has huge problems with A350 routes. Yesterday PEK was switched to A333 while OH-LWB stayed in HEL and LWC went to BKK. LWC had today a 7 hour turnaround in BKK and is expected to arrive 4,5hours late to HEL.
LWC has most likely some problems to be fixed because AY cancelled PEK today, when they could have taken LWC there with ~3hour delay.
Tomorrow LWA will switch JFK to BKK, so again ~1600 miles more to be flown by A350 every day. Let's see how that goes...
LWC has most likely some problems to be fixed because AY cancelled PEK today, when they could have taken LWC there with ~3hour delay.
Tomorrow LWA will switch JFK to BKK, so again ~1600 miles more to be flown by A350 every day. Let's see how that goes...
There was also few other big delays with other routes and pax losing connections and the queue to transfer disk was looooooooong
Jan 20, 2016, 11:21 am
#97
Moderator, Finnair
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
Programs: EB Diamond, M&M SEN, QR Gold, AY+ Gold, A3*G, Nordic Choice Lifetime Platinum, SJ Prio Black
Posts: 14,314
I was on the main feeder flight from ARN today, which interestingly was only an A319, but completely full in Y. Before landing, the purser announed that all pax to PEK should go to the transfer desk at HEL. She did not give out any info about a possible delay/cxl, which I find strange. Are they afraid people will start acting out on board? I think it would be better to be straight about it right away, giving people time to get used to the idea so they are prepared when they reach the transfer desk. Obviously not AY policy.
...
...
They have everyone's connecting flight info - I know this because in case of inbound delay they sometimes walk around the cabin and adressing personally each and everyone asking them to "hurry to gate x".
Once, when delay was announced on SMS before feeder takeoff, I tried to get check in agent to tell me what to expect and he said "I have no idea, they never tell us anything in these cases"
Jan 22, 2016, 1:49 am
#98
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,744
I was on the main feeder flight from ARN today, which interestingly was only an A319, but completely full in Y. Before landing, the purser announed that all pax to PEK should go to the transfer desk at HEL. She did not give out any info about a possible delay/cxl, which I find strange. Are they afraid people will start acting out on board? I think it would be better to be straight about it right away, giving people time to get used to the idea so they are prepared when they reach the transfer desk. Obviously not AY policy.
When did they make the decision of canceling? Would be interesting to know – surely they could have rerouted the pax ARN-XXX-PEK instead of stranding them at HEL. Then again, it's probably cheaper for AY to but them on the CKG flight...
When did they make the decision of canceling? Would be interesting to know – surely they could have rerouted the pax ARN-XXX-PEK instead of stranding them at HEL. Then again, it's probably cheaper for AY to but them on the CKG flight...
Jan 22, 2016, 10:40 pm
#99
Ambassador: Finnair
Join Date: May 2003
Location: HEL
Programs: AY Lumo, BA Silver, HHonors Gold
Posts: 4,279
Live from aboard AY96 OH-LWC - departed slightly late due to late incoming. My first 350 flight and like the silence, the seat (single seat) not much, too cramped and too many corners, armrests are awful..no sleeping yet so cant comment..service slow..really slow..time will tell how they get these new birds going..
Jan 29, 2016, 12:46 am
#103
Moderator, Finnair
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
Programs: EB Diamond, M&M SEN, QR Gold, AY+ Gold, A3*G, Nordic Choice Lifetime Platinum, SJ Prio Black
Posts: 14,314
Row 1 could possibly be different than the others. The curvature of the fuselage suggests it is even more cramped, but I've got the feeling the seat is less slanted which could mean something for personal space.
I'm nurturing a small hope that Vantage UK keeps on disappointing Airbus and that they at some point moves on to another supplier. That would be chance of later OH-LWs getting a different seat and layout.
So far, AY is the only operator that thinks 46 business class seats is a good way to go. CX is said to go with 38 J. QR has 36 J and only 6 rows between door 1 and 2.
With AY's propensity to oversell Y and upgrade anyone for free, I always thought the new fleet was a good opportunity to lower number of J seats. But they went the other way and increased number of seats. The only logic I can see is that they anticipate J class undergoing a similar race to the bottom that Y has had.
I'm nurturing a small hope that Vantage UK keeps on disappointing Airbus and that they at some point moves on to another supplier. That would be chance of later OH-LWs getting a different seat and layout.
So far, AY is the only operator that thinks 46 business class seats is a good way to go. CX is said to go with 38 J. QR has 36 J and only 6 rows between door 1 and 2.
With AY's propensity to oversell Y and upgrade anyone for free, I always thought the new fleet was a good opportunity to lower number of J seats. But they went the other way and increased number of seats. The only logic I can see is that they anticipate J class undergoing a similar race to the bottom that Y has had.
Jan 29, 2016, 5:32 am
#104
Moderator, Finnair
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
Programs: EB Diamond, M&M SEN, QR Gold, AY+ Gold, A3*G, Nordic Choice Lifetime Platinum, SJ Prio Black
Posts: 14,314
I july 2014, Aircraftcabinmanagement.com wrote in their review of the A350 cabin design process:
Apparently, it was well known that interiors can cause substantial delays. Still Zodiac Aerospace have been locked in as risk-share partner and can't easily be replaced. Apparently Airbus though sharing risk with Zodiac would mean reducing risk for delays. Apparently they were wrong.
...
Learning from its experience with the A380, where complex interiors caused delays, Airbus has introduced a cabin configuration catalogue from the start of the project as it plans to rapidly ramp up production. It should be noted that the participating companies are also risk-share partners in the programme, meaning it will be tough for new potential vendors to break into the market.
Learning from its experience with the A380, where complex interiors caused delays, Airbus has introduced a cabin configuration catalogue from the start of the project as it plans to rapidly ramp up production. It should be noted that the participating companies are also risk-share partners in the programme, meaning it will be tough for new potential vendors to break into the market.
Last edited by intuition; Jan 29, 2016 at 8:50 am Reason: getting the company name right...
Jan 29, 2016, 8:19 am
#105
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 290
I july 2014, Aircraftcabinmanagement.com wrote in their review of the A350 cabin design process:
Apparently, it was well known that interiors can cause substantial delays. Still Vantage Aerospace have been locked in as risk-share partner and can't easily be replaced. Apparently Airbus though sharing risk with Vantage would mean reducing risk for delays. Apparently they were wrong.
Apparently, it was well known that interiors can cause substantial delays. Still Vantage Aerospace have been locked in as risk-share partner and can't easily be replaced. Apparently Airbus though sharing risk with Vantage would mean reducing risk for delays. Apparently they were wrong.
According to everything I´ve read the J seats are delivered by Zodiac France...