ELAL

Transavia adding Eindhoven from November
http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4952233,00.html

BATLV

Could it be that the new subsidies (i.e. our taxes) make a business case for airlines to fly empty planes from obscure locations as it is more cost effective than having the same planes grounded?

sds1493

Aren't the subsidies passenger based? It means the airlines can charge cheaper prices than a flight to another destination, but that is the whole point.

BATLV

I may be mistaken, but there is a fixed element and a per passenger element.

And let's assume the planes are never really empty, but with a minimal load factor ( 20%)?

BATLV

3 weekly MIA announced starting Winter 17/18. 777-200 a/c

NYTA

Makes sense although I was hoping they'd start SFO to compete with UA and bring the crazy prices down. Now I just have to hope that DL will start flying to SEA.

BATLV

Now that would not make much sense to LY, would it? I mean, why compete on price and quality when you can avoid it on a different route. If they can fill the planes to MIA it is a better business decision.

Is there a market to SEA?

NYTA

Agreed it makes sense for LY since they can't compete on price and quality anywhere. Just look at TLV-London - I can fly Easyjet for half the price of LY and the quality is actually better on Easyjet than on LY.

I think there's a market for SEA at least a couple times a week - but I have no data to back it up. As a frequent visitor to SFO, as much as I'd like to fly the nonstop, it's currently insanely priced so a connection through SEA is a much more palatable alternative than most others. Nobody thought SFO would be so popular until UA started flying it and it's a huge success.

Innocent Abroad

This was announced by LY, I presume...

DA201

This makes a lot of sense, since MIA is the 3rd largest US market for TLV (after NYC and LAX). BOS is #6 , but I understand why it was launched before MIA (smaller aircraft and B6 feed).

SFO-TLV only has 100-110 PDEW and SEA-TLV has ~25 PDEW. El Al wouldn't be able to sustain a flight with UA already flying SFO-TLV and SEA-TLV doesn't have the demand, since El Al connects very few passengers in TLV and has B6 (and to a lesser extend AA) in the US.

The largest USA-TLV markets without a nonstop service are now Chicago (80-85 PDEW), DC (~60 PDEW and in talks with El Al for a nonstop), and Philly (45-50 PDEW). TLV has a good number of passengers from everywhere across the US, which creates a really good feed for US carriers, so it would not surprise me if a US carrier started ORD-TLV or ATL-TLV (~40 PDEW).

NYTA

I'm no yield expert but I remember when UA launched TLV-SFO they said that it wasn't even in the top 50 of city pairs that they expected to yield well for them but they did so cautiously based on signatures on an online petition. Within weeks of launching the 3x weekly flight they moved it to daily because of high demand. That would seem to indicate more PDEW than what your data shows. Also common-sense wise as someone who flies several times a year from TLV-SFO I'd much rather connect in SEA than JFK or EWR and then have a short ongoing flight to SFO, SJC, even SNA, LAX and SAN. Much better than the crappy business class of LH, KL or AF on the Europe/TLV route and overall more time in a better seat and less time in a worse seat with better ongoing connections to places I can't get to on most European airlines with one stop.

Given how well UA and DL seem to do with high priced O&D traffic TLV-NYC I think DL would pick up some market share from the European carriers on TLV-west coast along with plenty of tech related SEA O&D traffic - Microsoft buys 2 Israeli companies a year so the travel need is only growing.

entropy

I think SFO-TLV had a lot less to do with the petition than actual corporate travel departments talking with their UA reps. I'm not surprised that its doing well, a lot of those customers were flying over EWR or the EU. With LH flying only economy class FRA-TLV, that connection sucks if you're in the premium cabin.

SFO also has quick <2 hour flights from SEA/PDX/LA/SAN. SEA and PDX have lots of corporate traffic with Microsoft and Intel having major operations in Israel. LAX has the nonstop flights, but its LY...

Next US would be ORD on UA, but given that CO 90 is going to a 77W, that's quite a few more seats already. Would be nice to have a *A lounge in TLV given how awful and crowded the DANs are.

Innocent Abroad

I thought UA uses the Dan+ lounge; it is a Dan lounge after all but better in my view.

eugnk

Easyjet LGW 3 weekly route is back in September after a short hiatus.

ijkh

Between all members of our family we fly at least 6 ++ round trips out of PDX a year to TLV. Right now most are using the SFO n/s. We are going to try either Condor with one stop in FRA or Icelandair with a stopover. WOW just announced a nonstop Iceland-TLV. That sounds good.

Microsoft, Intel and Nike all do business in TLV. I think there would be a market for a nonstop.