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Old Jul 5, 2021 | 8:44 am
  #226  
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Originally Posted by RatherBeOnATrain
I cannot ever recall seeing a tip jar at any US chain fast food restaurant (McDonald's, Burger King, etc.) I've ever been in.

[The fast casual (Chipotle, Panera) chains do have tip jars.]
This. I've never seen them at fast food restaurants.
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Old Jul 5, 2021 | 10:07 am
  #227  
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Originally Posted by kipper
This. I've never seen them at fast food restaurants.
That's my point. The employers aren't getting tip credit, so the workers are getting real minimum wage without the stress of complicated customers, orders, etc etc etc.
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Old Jul 5, 2021 | 10:30 am
  #228  
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Originally Posted by Jaimito Cartero
Im at a 5 star property on the Phoenix/Scottsdale border, and there are no shortage of serving staff here. We arrived at the beggining of service yesterday, and saw 15 servers just waiting for customers to arrive.
Restaurants that hired earlier, recalled workers earlier and/or had higher/better wages/working conditions earlier in this pandemic seem to have reaped some reward when it comes to staffing. The early bird wins. The late, cheap birds seem to be paying more of a price for it.
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Old Jul 11, 2021 | 3:55 pm
  #229  
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https://www.economist.com/briefing/2...ages-not-goods

In America median workers require a 3% higher wage to accept a job than they did before the pandemic, according to a recent survey by the New York Fed. For low-wage workers the necessary wage has gone up 19%.
On some of the more common reasons posited by Economists for the above, the article offers the following:

None of these explanations is fully satisfactory. Britain and Australia are also suffering worker shortages in some industries, despite not having generous unemployment benefits. It seems strange that young waiters, who could be vaccinated should they so choose, would see the restaurants to which consumers are happy to return as too risky to work in. A new paper by Jason Furman and Wilson Powell III of Harvard University and Melissa Kearney of the University of Maryland finds that additional joblessness among mothers of young children accounts for only a “negligible” share of America’s employment deficit, contrary to the conventional wisdom.
Ordinarily, I would just assume the main culprit to be overly generous unemployment benefits, but, according to the article, both the UK and Australia are also experiencing labor shortages in some industries absent of generous unemployment benefits.

PS - I assume the Economists is paywalled, but not sure about this piece since I do have a subscription.
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Old Jul 12, 2021 | 9:05 am
  #230  
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Originally Posted by Visconti

Ordinarily, I would just assume the main culprit to be overly generous unemployment benefits, but, according to the article, both the UK and Australia are also experiencing labor shortages in some industries absent of generous unemployment benefits.
Another way of looking at it -- very few people see waiting or bussing tables as a long term job. The mass shutdowns were a catalyst for people to consider that next job a little sooner than they would have normally. The increased benefits allowed them a safety net to do it with no loss of income and, in some cases, even more income than returning to their jobs. The states that have started to cut off the benefits are already seeing increases in job applications and hiring (or at least were as of a few weeks ago, I haven't seen recent data).

The government basically told millions of people in entry-level jobs that they weren't "essential". So they looked to become essential. When polled or part of a study asking why they aren't returning to the f&b industry, will they say "because of the unemployment benefits", or "because I've found/am looking for a different job"? It's likely a combination, and the latter may not have happened without the former. IMO, this means eventually the market will catch up as the next generation of college students and young adults return to the industry while looking for their "career" somewhere else.
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Old Jul 12, 2021 | 9:17 am
  #231  
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I reached out to some restaurant owners, and there are not only server/employee shortages, there are also other shortages -- supplies and equipment too -- that could impact the situation. And this is an issue on both sides of the Atlantic.

Also, some of the restaurant owners who have seen things get very busy as of late are complaining that patrons/would-be-patrons who don't hear what they want are nastier than they were pre-pandemic. Could be a function of various things. However, if the workplace environment is truly worse than before for restaurant employees, then attracting/retaining employees will require more of a premium than before. If restaurants aren't able/willing to pay the premium that is required to get/retain employees -- and/or a restaurant can't make a price hike work out -- then they may have to re-invent themselves in ways, including by trying to automate more and/or outsource service to the customers or others more than was already the case. Are waiters taking orders really needed as much now as before? Outsourcing the menu-ordering process to the customers would likely reduce the problem of customer disputes over what was ordered and free up wait staff to do things beside take orders from seated customers at the restaurants. But good wait staff in the menu-order-taking process can also drive up sales in a way that automated/self-service ordering may not do so as effectively.
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Old Jul 12, 2021 | 10:09 am
  #232  
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
But good wait staff in the menu-order-taking process can also drive up sales in a way that automated/self-service ordering may not do so as effectively.
I agree. And of course there's customer expectations too. Perhaps someone has questions about ingredients because of an allergy, or needs more of a description than the menu offers. That's probably a minimal issue at a fast food place, but more important at your gastropub or bistro. Then, at a certain price point, people actually want a more personal experience. Ordering off an ipad and having a robot deliver their food would mean they choose a different restaurant.
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Old Jul 12, 2021 | 1:08 pm
  #233  
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Originally Posted by JBord
I agree. And of course there's customer expectations too. Perhaps someone has questions about ingredients because of an allergy, or needs more of a description than the menu offers. That's probably a minimal issue at a fast food place, but more important at your gastropub or bistro. Then, at a certain price point, people actually want a more personal experience. Ordering off an ipad and having a robot deliver their food would mean they choose a different restaurant.
I have pretty severe allergies, so I much prefer confirming any requests with a human.
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Old Jul 13, 2021 | 9:53 am
  #234  
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Originally Posted by JBord
Another way of looking at it -- very few people see waiting or bussing tables as a long term job. The mass shutdowns were a catalyst for people to consider that next job a little sooner than they would have normally. The increased benefits allowed them a safety net to do it with no loss of income and, in some cases, even more income than returning to their jobs. The states that have started to cut off the benefits are already seeing increases in job applications and hiring (or at least were as of a few weeks ago, I haven't seen recent data).
This is my view also. The shutdowns have forced some viable businesses (restaurants) to permanently exit the market, and it is unsurprising we're seeing supply playing catch up here. It's going to be interesting to see what companies are saying their costs and pass-through to the end consumer--we'll definitely have more insight on this during this earnings season. I'm wondering if the rising labor costs are more because of inflationary pressures (transitory debate notwithstanding) rather than some other permanent behavioral change.

We'll see. Ultimately, the restaurants given their razor thin margins must necessarily pass-through to costs to diners in the form of higher prices. While I haven't noticed (admittedly, haven't really paid attention), have you guys/gals noticed that any broad increase in restaurant prices?
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Old Jul 13, 2021 | 10:13 am
  #235  
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Originally Posted by Visconti

We'll see. Ultimately, the restaurants given their razor thin margins must necessarily pass-through to costs to diners in the form of higher prices. While I haven't noticed (admittedly, haven't really paid attention), have you guys/gals noticed that any broad increase in restaurant prices?
Other than Chipotle announcing price increases in order to pay higher wages, I haven't seen anything...yet. But I recently moved from Chicago to the suburbs and am still surprised that restaurant prices are so much higher out here. I guess less competition. I suspect most restaurant owners are holding off on raising prices if they're able, thinking that the market will return to normal as people start needing entry level jobs again.
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Old Jul 13, 2021 | 10:22 am
  #236  
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Originally Posted by kipper
I have pretty severe allergies, so I much prefer confirming any requests with a human.
Really? You think a human remembering ALL the ingredients of ALL menu items is more secure than an ipad that can be programmed to accurately list all ingredients?
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Old Jul 13, 2021 | 11:06 am
  #237  
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Originally Posted by justforfun
Really? You think a human remembering ALL the ingredients of ALL menu items is more secure than an ipad that can be programmed to accurately list all ingredients?
A human is far more likely to:
  1. Check the ingredients
  2. Communicate the severity of the allergy to the kitchen so there is a lower chance of cross-contamination
An iPad may list the ingredients, but if a product has changed recently or the chef decided to add something, the iPad may or may not be updated.
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Old Jul 13, 2021 | 11:30 am
  #238  
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Originally Posted by kipper
A human is far more likely to:
  1. Check the ingredients
  2. Communicate the severity of the allergy to the kitchen so there is a lower chance of cross-contamination
An iPad may list the ingredients, but if a product has changed recently or the chef decided to add something, the iPad may or may not be updated.
A human is far more likely to:

1. Lie to a customer he/she dislikes
2. Otherwise misinterpret or not pay attention or forget
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Old Jul 13, 2021 | 12:13 pm
  #239  
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Originally Posted by Eastbay1K
A human is far more likely to:

1. Lie to a customer he/she dislikes
2. Otherwise misinterpret or not pay attention or forget
Except that an iPad can't answer questions and may or may not be able to send a manager or employee to my table.
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Old Jul 13, 2021 | 4:43 pm
  #240  
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Originally Posted by Eastbay1K
A human is far more likely to:

1. Lie to a customer he/she dislikes
2. Otherwise misinterpret or not pay attention or forget
this lol plus
3. guess on an allergy / ingredient without thinking about the consequences - an iPad will automatically have pre-lawsuit protection as instant default :-)
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