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What I don't understand is why everything we do, people expect a tip. When we get a haircut, we tip. When we catch a cab, we tip, when we go to the restaurant, we tip.
Why why why??? Why are we tipping for service that is expected? Does the cab driver expect us to drive ourselves? Does our stylist expect us to cut our own hair? I don't get it either. |
Originally Posted by Gaucho100K
(Post 18306413)
Bribe..???????
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Some would say that caling a tip a bribe is a lame excuse for being cheap... This has nothing to do with cheapness - I personally would prefer for all food 15-20% more expensive (and not give any tips) rather than be expected to tip that amount. |
Originally Posted by rjque
(Post 12949743)
This made me laugh. If those who look at menu prices are "frugal/cheap," what do you call the 1% of the population who does not look at prices?
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Originally Posted by exbayern
(Post 18311155)
I'm not certain what you are asking. Tipping in the North American fashion is not the norm in restaurants in many European countries (or other countries around the world).
Again, 'Europe' is a large number of countries each with different cultures and different customs and habits. Grouping it together as 'Europe' and expecting people to behave the same everywhere just isn't reasonable. There is a cultural difference which Fredd tried to explain (quite well, I thought) between how many people behave in the US vs certain other cultures in the world. For instance, in many parts of the world it is generally considered intrusive or even rude to ask overly personal questions. Smiling at strangers is considered rude in many parts of the world (or one may be thought to be slightly 'off' if one walks down the street smiling at random people) My posts may be considered straightforward by some readers here, while others may think me a big poopyhead. :D One of the common complaints from some North Americans who visit France is that 'the server ignored me' or 'the meal took too long'. That is just a difference in how things are done. (And all of these are generalities and not intended to paint people with a broad brush, but I am trying to explain in very simple terms) Rather than assuming that all cultures behave the same or follow the same habits in 'Europe', why not purchase a book and read about how these things vary from country to country, and even region to region? Even in Germany things can vary from north to south to east to west. There are some good books on the subject which give basic advice for a number of countries. The same holds true for tipping. Just because one tips in North America does not mean that one should tip in other parts of the world. In fact, as pointed out here on this thread several times, tipping certain positions in certain countries can even be considered rude or offensive. Best to read up before one travels, to be prepared for these variances. |
Originally Posted by orthar
(Post 18314858)
After reading waiter/waitress experiences (for example, on stainedapron), I have little doubt that it is a bribe. No matter how terrible the server is, if I intend to return to that establishment, I practically need to tip.
This has nothing to do with cheapness - I personally would prefer for all food 15-20% more expensive (and not give any tips) rather than be expected to tip that amount. As sad as it is to say, a lot of servers don't know when they do a bad job. I work with several of them. If you actually want to get the point across, unfortunately a 5% tip won't always do it. Myself, as someone that's done this job for a (far too) long time, I know when I screw up and maybe don't have my "A" game that day. Hopefully, I would have already taken ownership of my error, apologized, and gotten my ever-cheaper managers to present some kind of compensation. But, if, for whatever reason, that didn't happen, I have no problem getting a less than stellar tip and wouldn't hold a grudge the next time you came in. I'd want a chance to prove myself. Or, in what would be an even more likely scenario, I wouldn't remember who you were anyway. We see an awful lot of faces at a busy restaurant over the course of a couple weeks' time. I certainly wouldn't give a server extra cash that they didn't deserve just to be able to come back at a later time. If anything, if service at that restaurant in general is lackluster, I wouldn't bother coming back at all. Chris |
My problem then, is Canada!
1. Slightly higher prices than the US (especially noticeable when the same chain exists both sides of the border) 2. Servers making (excluding all tips) minimum wage on a par with most servers in eg the UK 3. We still tip Of course the thing that pees me off beyond all belief is the clueless server who tells me, quite pointedly, when they bring the bill that 'Service is NOT included'. I suspect it is my accent that prompts them to that as I guess Brits don't tip as a matter of course. But I've been here years, and know the drill. If you point it out then I will make a point of being the stingey brit you think I am (instead of the regular Canadian tipper I normally am!)
Originally Posted by JayhawkCO
(Post 18306992)
Originally Posted by Moineau
(Post 18305412)
During your upcoming trip to "Europe" you'll see how things work in non-tipping cultures. Not only are the servers accountable, but they don't find the need to become your best friends and hover over you for the entire meal, something that drives me nuts in North America where that behaviour makes me feel harrassed. Hopefully you'll enjoy the new experience in a culture where waiters are considered to be professionals and act accordingly.
The American disease of tipping doesn't keep the servers accountable: it makes them irritating. I never again want to hear that your name is Todd and you'll be my server for the evening :rolleyes: In America, it's customary to bring the check when you've asked if the table cares for anything else and they have declined, assuming that the next logical step would be the settling of the bill. This is considered rude in other locales. American style service is not better nor worse, just different.
Originally Posted by exbayern
(Post 18306704)
^ And I defintely don't want you crouching on the floor next to me while you tell me your name is Todd. Nor do I want you to write your name on my table with a crayon, Todd. And yes, being a server is considered a profession, not necessarily a stepping stone to someone 'better' which is an attitude I cannot abide.
No one likes Macaroni Grille style service. :D I find it annoying too, but it's not like it's the server that decided to do this. It's company policy. To answer the question posed by the OP though, if you want to end tipping, just raise all the prices on the menu 20%. I'm in New Zealand now and tipping is pretty much non-existent. But, the mains on the menu are pretty much all $30+ to help the employer pay the staff salary. In general, the other costs here are in line with American prices, but restaurants are quite a bit more expensive. If you want a similar price point in the US, we can eliminate tipping. In my opinion, it's a zero-sum game for the consumer either way. $25 main course + $5 tip = $30 for the consumer or $30 main course (because the price was increased because of additional cost passed onto the employer) + $0 tip = $30 for the consumer At least one of those options gives you the opportunity to pay less if you were provided with substandard service. Chris |
Originally Posted by emma69
(Post 18316051)
My problem then, is Canada!
1. Slightly higher prices than the US (especially noticeable when the same chain exists both sides of the border) 2. Servers making (excluding all tips) minimum wage on a par with most servers in eg the UK 3. We still tip Of course the thing that pees me off beyond all belief is the clueless server who tells me, quite pointedly, when they bring the bill that 'Service is NOT included'. I suspect it is my accent that prompts them to that as I guess Brits don't tip as a matter of course. But I've been here years, and know the drill. If you point it out then I will make a point of being the stingey brit you think I am (instead of the regular Canadian tipper I normally am!) Chris |
Originally Posted by braslvr
(Post 18312063)
Funny. I've always thought it was very classy for the waiter (or flight attendant) to 'crouch' while taking my order, especially when in a group. Much more personal.
By the way, Chris, I really appreciate your input in this thread. Serving can be a challenging position, and it is interesting to hear insider information from a different viewpoint.
Originally Posted by Ancien Maestro
(Post 18315287)
There is a bit of a cultural difference between NA, and parts of Europe..
You may want to read here to better understand the very marked differences (not just in regards to restaurant tipping, but also taxi, bellman, etc): http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trave...ry-region.html Note however that many of us disagree with the original post and suggested guidelines (as being too high), and you may need to read further to find more detail. |
Originally Posted by exbayern
(Post 18316914)
Crouching down to speak to the customer was considered a sin, and only slightly worse is the (common in North America) habit of removing plates from the table before every diner has finished their meal.
You may want to read here to better understand the very marked differences (not just in regards to restaurant tipping, but also taxi, bellman, etc): http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trave...ry-region.html The 'do as in Rome' applies, but some things just come across as rude (the example that springs to mind for me is spitting, yet some places it is normal. What I know that, it still grates!) |
Originally Posted by emma69
(Post 18316978)
My father has a huge issue with the plate removal.
It's good to remember that the concept of 'good service' varies around the world. I have to adjust when I am in the United States, just as Americans have to adjust when they visit other countries. This is advice from the tipping by country thread, and I think that it is very valid:
Originally Posted by windcloud5
(Post 17942969)
+1, ^. If I am going to a foreign country for the first time. I always research the tipping culture of that particular country on the internet and I will tip accordingly. Respect to other culture is in order. Remember this, when you are going over to a friend's house, you don't behave like you normally behave when you are at your own house. WE should apply this principle when visiting a foreign country.
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Originally Posted by exbayern
(Post 18316914)
Crouching down to speak to the customer was considered a sin
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Originally Posted by exbayern
(Post 18316914)
Crouching down to speak to the customer was considered a sin, and only slightly worse is the (common in North America) habit of removing plates from the table before every diner has finished their meal. Both were subject to very strong discipline.
The exception that I make is that I ideally never leave only one person with an entree plate. So if two people are still dining, I won't clear the largest plates until both are finished. That said, if you take your napkin off of your lap or stack side plates and silverware, I assume you don't want those things in front of you anymore and remove them at my convenience. The reason for the clearing of plates is as much for efficiency as anything else. If I'm already walking by that table and I can clear something not being used, it saves me a trip later. This allows me to give better service to all of my tables. I work at an upscale casual restaurant (picture $30+ entrees, but still turning the average table in 90 minutes or so), so the quicker I can do my job, the more money I make and (in general) the happier the guest also. I had a table not too long ago complain about me. It was the first service-driven complaint I've had in probably five years. They complained that when they needed something additional for their meal, instead of dropping absolutely everything else I had going on to go get their extra ramekin of butter, I would, on the way, stop and pick up a few dirty plates from another table in my section on the way. To pick up the plates and drop them at the dishwasher, it likely took me about fifteen seconds extra to get the butter back to the table. When my manager discussed the complaint with me later, he asked, "So let me get this straight. They asked you for several things and instead of getting them right away, you first made sure the other tables were doing well too?" I confirmed his accusation. He said, "Great. Keep up the good work." :D I told him that if the guest in question happened to write an email, I'd be happy to schedule some time with them at their convenience to have them follow me around during a shift, maybe educate them a bit.
Originally Posted by exbayern
(Post 18316914)
By the way, Chris, I really appreciate your input in this thread. Serving can be a challenging position, and it is interesting to hear insider information from a different viewpoint.
I know there's a lot of really terrible servers out there. Let's be honest; the profession is not a lightning rod for geniuses. If you get really bad service because of server apathy, I have no problem with small tips. Get that person out of the industry as quickly as possible. If you get rude service, I have no problem with zero tip. I've had to do it a couple of times in my life. But if you get competent, friendly service, tipping according to the local conventions doesn't seem that difficult to me. One quick funny story to lighten the mood in this thread. I was doing a mileage run to LHR one weekend, and at ORD I happened to run into one of the regulars from my restaurant. This guy is a cardiologist and likes to talk down to the servers and doesn't tip particularly well either. We were both flying back to MCI and I asked him where he and his wife were coming from. He proceeded to spend the next five minutes going on about the luxury hotels in Puerto Vallarta and Aspen that they had been frequenting over the past couple of weeks. Didn't bother asking me where I was coming from (because he didn't care and lacks the gene to make pleasant smalltalk), but right when they made the preliminary boarding announcement, he stopped his gloating and said "Oh, sorry, I gotta go. I spend an awful lot on this airline and they let me board first so I get good overhead space." I said I'd see him on board. When they started boarding the first class cabin, I made my way onto the plane through the red carpet since my upgrade had cleared and waved to him as he stood all "gate-lousey" in the regular economy line. :D Sometimes we servers win, too. Chris |
Originally Posted by emma69
(Post 18316051)
My problem then, is Canada!
1. Slightly higher prices than the US (especially noticeable when the same chain exists both sides of the border) 2. Servers making (excluding all tips) minimum wage on a par with most servers in eg the UK 3. We still tip
Originally Posted by emma69
(Post 18316051)
Of course the thing that pees me off beyond all belief is the clueless server who tells me, quite pointedly, when they bring the bill that 'Service is NOT included'. I suspect it is my accent that prompts them to that as I guess Brits don't tip as a matter of course. But I've been here years, and know the drill. If you point it out then I will make a point of being the stingey brit you think I am (instead of the regular Canadian tipper I normally am!)
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For me, things being removed / cleared bit by bit as the server passes does drive me slowly nuts. I consider it polite to say thank you as my plates are cleared, and if I am having to do it every time a ramekin, a side plate, a breadbasket etc is removed it is disruptive. But equally I wouldn't ignore the server, so for me, clearing once per course is the ideal - anything else I find unnecessary.
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Originally Posted by show_me_the_points
(Post 12948937)
I cant understand why a simple job of serving food has to be complicated by tipping? I can hardly recall any instance where a waiter served food "incorrectly " and did not earn their 15% tip. I am sure you have your horror stories, but these are the exception, not the rule.
Why can't restaurant owners pay waiters a decent hourly wage and pass the cost onto the customer? By the way, I just returned from a month trip to the Far East, where there is no tipping. Much more enjoyable dining experience in my opinion! Receive bill , pay it then leave. No mental arithmetic to determine whether this waiter deserved 12%, 16% or 18.5% tip based on how precisely they served your food. I can't imagine anyone who enjoys doing this! Then you have to constantly worry if the waiter hates you because you only tipped them 13% instead of the usual 15%. All it would take is some big chain restaurant to abolish it and all others would follow suit. Can you imagine the buzz/hype it would create for the first restaurant to do so? however im guessing your in the US where you all tip ridiculously, your restaurant staff are paid peanuts and eating out is cheap anyway. Here in Britain we pay our staff decent wages, dont tip as much 10% max and eat out only once in a while cause restaurant food is expensive |
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