In the US now even the lousiest waiter, and food expects 15% to 25% tip. It is no longer related to the service or food.

And this is the key point here. Waiter's claim their tips at the end of the night and if their total with their hourly is less than Minimum wage then the employer has to reimburse the difference. A-lot of waiters who get cash tips do not claim it in their end of night reports, so they always end up earning more than minimum wage.

I don't think tipping's about service (or culture - give me a break!). It's about restaurants being able to staff up at peak times without paying crippling award rates and jacking up the food prices to compensate. In the big cities at least, that helps a lot of places survive in the USA . I work mainly in Europe and Australia and don't have a problem with service in either area, but I find that even with tips and last-minute added tax (I always forget that one!) you still get good VFM in the USA.

Not necessarily true. A lot of servers are required to review their tips with management before they can leave, as they are expected to tip out bussers, bartenders, and/or host staff based on their total sales, not their tips. If they receive a big portion of tips via credit card, which is often added to their paychecks, not cashed out that night for them, they may leave with little to no cash, as the cash goes to tipping out others.

Why would any one be a server based on kipper's post:rolleyes:

Are you saying that employers do not have to make up the difference at the end of the paycheck? A lot of complaints are that waiters make less than minimum wage, which is not true.

I didn't say I was trying to convince anyone to be a server. :)

I have friends who are, and know that if they worked a mid-week lunch shift, they were lucky to make minimum wage after tips and tipping out bartenders and such, but before the restaurant ponied up the difference.

No. I was saying that, especially if a lot of their tips are on credit card transactions, and if their restaurant does not cash those out at the end of the night, but adds those to paychecks, then they walk out of there with very little cash.

Likewise, you seemed to imply that servers were gaming the system, reporting less in tips to management, so the restaurant would be required to pay minimum wage, while pocketing more in cash tips. I mentioned that in at least some restaurants, servers are required to review tips with management before leaving for the night, in part because they are required to tip out bartenders, bussers, and host staff.

I was mearly providing my experience working multiple server positions, and as a young 20 year old fresh from college I can attest that this has happened at many places I have worked at. In fact, I can think of none that this hasn't happened.

Yes there are places were you tip out based on total sales, but I still always walked away with a cash tip. Yes we counted our money at the end of the night, but we never had management looming over our shoulders, and we could claim how ever much we wanted minus the fee's calcutated from credit card's.

I have never met a waiter that made minimum wage, and I am merely putting it into perspective for those who think waiters walk away with hardly anything, which isn't true. Then again, this is based on personal experience and not what one of my friends told me.

When was this? Recently?

Perhaps it is where you are geographically, as compared to where I am geographically, but observations and experiences here are different.

I've sat in restaurants recently and watched servers who were cut review tips with management, and review tip outs to bar staff/bussers, etc. Mr. Kipper, when he served at Lonestar Steakhouse before college, often left with less cash than he started the day with, because of tipping the bar staff and such. He received tips on credit cards, but had to tip out staff in cash, leaving him with less cash.

But then the restaurant gave him his credit card tips, right? At the most, it's just a float until his next paycheck. When you buy something at a store, the cashier doesn't get paid until the next paycheck either. So what exactly is the issue?

Yes, the credit card tips were part of his paycheck. The issue was the implication that many servers report less tips than received, so that the restaurant paid them minimum wage, and they pocketed a lot in tips that went unreported. I pointed out that, at least in some cases, servers leave with little to no cash, depending on how tips are paid, and that in some cases, managers review tips with servers, due to tip outs and such.

I'm from Singapore, and tipping is really uncommon here. I've never had to tip at a single restaurant I've dined at... That being said, there aren't any minimum wage rates here, and Singaporeans are notoriously fussy (and difficult sometimes), so I wouldn't say being a waiter/server here is a fair deal. Especially since we pay 7% GST and 10% service charge, all to the restaurant...

If you don't have the mental capacity to calculate a 15 % tip, then society won't be interested in your views in how it should be run.

Is that 15% of pretax total?