I hate tipping, how can we end it?
 

I cant understand why a simple job of serving food has to be complicated by tipping? I can hardly recall any instance where a waiter served food "incorrectly " and did not earn their 15% tip. I am sure you have your horror stories, but these are the exception, not the rule.

Why can't restaurant owners pay waiters a decent hourly wage and pass the cost onto the customer?

By the way, I just returned from a month trip to the Far East, where there is no tipping. Much more enjoyable dining experience in my opinion!
Receive bill , pay it then leave. No mental arithmetic to determine whether this waiter deserved 12%, 16% or 18.5% tip based on how precisely they served your food. I can't imagine anyone who enjoys doing this! Then you have to constantly worry if the waiter hates you because you only tipped them 13% instead of the usual 15%.

All it would take is some big chain restaurant to abolish it and all others would follow suit. Can you imagine the buzz/hype it would create for the first restaurant to do so?

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8310/4.5.0.110 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/102)

How can we get everyone to like hot and humid weather? There will be one group who will agree to a certain % automatically added to the bill while another group wants to determine themselves how much, if anything, to leave. All in favor of four seasons . . .

Old Country Buffet is your friend.

I would think one reason is the size of the party. Why should a waiter make the same for serving a party of 8 as he does serving a party of two? Both are in the restaurant about the same amount of time.

The other reason of course, if they did that they would have to raise the cost of the food to cover the meals. People wouldn't like that. For whatever reason, they don't look at a restaurant as the total cost to get out the door, they look at the cost of the entrees.

With a flat hourly rate, these are all included. So the owner needs to have a good feel for how much the average work is at their place and pay accordingly.

If all restaurants abolished tipping then this would not be an issue. But you are right it is an issue if only some restaurants do it and not others. On the other hand, only frugal/cheap type of people look at menu prices. These are the type who would appreciate not having to tip.

Tipping in America is a calculated portion of Waiter and Staff compensation, written into our labor laws. That is why waiters are not required to earn minimum wage (in most states).

I have always laughed at the 'it's too hard to calculate' argument. Really? Middle School math still throws stumbling blocks into your daily life.

I think that we would find that if we abolished tipping and required a minimum wage to be paid, that the demographics of waiters would change. Also the ability to find employment would change, for the worse.

Finally, tipping (in my mind) should never be used as some sort of illustration of how much you did not like something. If you did not like it, tell the manager. but leaving a few pennies or turning into 'Mr. Pink' does not do anything except make you look petty.

Now there's a good tip for the OP. :D

This made me laugh. If those who look at menu prices are "frugal/cheap," what do you call the 1% of the population who does not look at prices?

Tipping should be a reward for GOOD service and not simply perfunctory. If you get rid of tipping then service will deteriorate.

I can see that this is much more of a problem in the UK than the US where service is normally excellent.

I still think there is a residual class stigma about people " serving " in Britain and even in top-flight restaurants service can be quite appalling. The problem is there is also still a reluctance among people to complain.

If I receive bad service in a restaurant I will insist the manager remove the service charge from the bill - likewise I will always cause a scene if a tipping line is left blank on a bill in addition to the service charge already added.

My family used to get embarrassed by it - now they make sure they have a full drink at the end of a bad meal so they can sit back and enjoy the fun.

I stopped tipping for bad service. Like waiting too long to order. Thats my biggest pet peeve. I dont decrease tip if the food came out cook wrong, but I will if it has for example, tomatoes when I said no tomatoes. I think the waiter should look at the food before they bring it out. I can't stand when they dont apologize for a bad experience. Its like "well ef you too." I think waiters and mostly waitresses just expect a larger tip now they try less.

Arguments against tipping have always just appeared so petty to me. It is as if people have no concept as to how tips are treated by the staff and what they go to.

Tipping has some flexibility and yes it is perfectly appropriate to adjust based on the entire dining experience. But to zero out a tip based on having received tomatos on your order instead of holding them is just strange to me.

I am embarassed to say that the tipping of hotel staff, in particular, housekeepers, just occured to me a few years ago as my flying really upticked. I now leave probably $5 a night by the TV with a note to housekeeping. I think that housekeeping probably earns a minimum wage, so my previous argument is out the window, but it just seems like the right thing to do.

About the only thing that really annoys me now are the Starbucks tip jars. And that is only because Starbucks published corporate policy is 'No tipping allowed.'

I think the problem that most people have with tipping as it's practiced in the US is the total disconnect of the current situation with what the idea started as in the first place.

In most countries on Earth where tipping is practiced, a tip is a small consideration or reward for good service, whereas the bulk of employee's earnings come from their wages. The idea of tips is to inspire people to deliver a better service in the hopes of getting more money of out the same job (sort of like performance-based bonuses in employment contracts).

The fact that the US has allowed people in service industries to be paid a pittance and have their income almost entirely dependent on tips, is, in my opinion, a grotesque perversion of what tipping used to be about.

I would always leave a buck or two for the person that had to clear the 6-8 plates that I've cleaned off. :D

I think we need to start a movement to pass a law (laws?) that would require all prices to include tipping, taxes, etc. like they have here in Europe. I want to see the all-in price. Otherwise it's deceptive marketing.

Anyone up for starting a petition?

It's easy to get rid of. You'd just need to take all of the people who have class and make them like people who don't tip.

Go to Australia. No tipping there. Of course, there's no great service either. The US does have the requisite service that goes to tipping. Should the math be so hard, perhaps you should spend more time in a library than in a restaurant.

The tipping culture in the US is much the fault of your government. They charge waiters for tips based their sales. That's why tipping in the US is higher than elsewhere.

Have you talked to your physician about the possibility of an anxiety disorder? I don't see why this would cause you so much stress. I'd bring it up with your GP the next time you're in there. It sounds like some Paxil would make you enjoy dinner a lot more.

It's that way by design. If I bring in a large group and someone takes care of them all night, I want that line in the receipt. Whining about it when you can just line it through is sort of stupid. Other guests want it there. Should it bother you, don't use it. In some cases, it is a limitation of the machine that runs the credit card. It's a tad anal to say that it bothers you and make a scene out of it. Hopefully you do this with customers around so they can get a full view of your personality.

Unfortunately it's lemmings like you who have keep bad restaurants in business for too long.
And when it comes to class I always think those who have it never need to boast about it.

Is tipping about class or just understanding the local customs. This is a travel forum. The audience who reads this thread probably traxels more than person X on the street. We should all know that what makes travel successful is at least educating yourself on the local customs whether or not you chose to follow them. When I see a Mr . Pink, I do not assume that the person is classless, just clueless.

Thank God that the Grumpy General showed up!

Grumpy is the right word. There's a lot of issues pent up there. Maybe a dose of that Paxil he recommends might do some good. ;)

Are you one of the people who also hates tip jars at Starbucks? :rolleyes:

Seriously though, while we are talking about this subject, I present to you two situations from the same dining chain in two different areas.

Number 1, a customer took me to a Chili's in Taiwan for lunch. I ordered salmon at the time. When I cut into it, it was clearly raw. I told the waiter that it was raw and I wanted it re-cooked, new one, whatever. No apology when he took the salmon to be redone. When it was presented back to me, it was clearly the same piece of salmon (not a big deal), but no attempt at making a presentation (a big deal to me). He extended a half-... apology, didn't offer me anything for compensation, and I was forced to tip him 10% and the full price on the salmon (all waiters/waitresses receive 10%, 10% service charge on each bill).

Number 2, I was out to Chili's in Minnesota with some colleagues. I ordered a steak medium well. When I cut into it, it was bloody red. I told my waitress this and she apologized, took the steak from me to be recooked. When my new steak was presented to me, it was a completely new cut of beef. She apologized again and asked me to cut into my steak, which was correctly cooked. A few minutes later, a manager appeared with the waitress, extending another apology and asking if I would like a comped dessert.

(I don't feel like this is comparing apples and oranges, both times the food I ordered was undercooked, that's the main point)

In situation number 2, I can appreciate all the effort that the waitress and manager were extending in order to improve a poor situation. If they didn't bother making my situation any better, you can bet she wouldn't be getting even 5% out of me for a tip. In number 1, the waiter seemed to not care and it seemed like, oh I don't need to work for a tip, I'll just put my head down and not get yelled at.

Tipping in restaurants does not bother me. If tipping were ended, restaurants would have to pay servers more and I do not think any business out there now is looking to increase labor costs. In addition, they would try to pass this cost onto the customer and I do not think customers are looking to pay more. As a consumer, tipping is a cost within my control and I have no problems with it.

What is beginning to bother me are the 'tip jars' springing up at Starbucks and everywhere else. It is as if these companies are trying to shift part of their labor costs from them to us: little doubt in my mind they pay their help less and tell them they will make it up in tips.

A previous post mentioned Starbucks having a no tip police. Maybe a Starbucks manager may allow this to go on, but I wonder what happens when an Area or District Manager walks in the door. Somehow, it must be unofficially allowed.

Bad example, IMO. As a non-Chinese and non-American international traveller, I (like any seasoned traveller should) know that service is not the strong point in China (mainland, island, whatever), whereas customer service is very strong in the USA. A simple trip to a US supermarket (compared to almost any other supermarket anywhere else, save, perhaps Japan) is ample evidence of how much friendlier the consumer experience in the US is.

So I don't think your Chilli's experience is anything out of the ordinary or anything to be surprised about.

Oh, BTW - yes, I do routinely ignore the tip jars at Starbucks on the rare occasions that I step in there. Their coffee is overpriced (and overrated) and I feel no obligation to step into the shoes of the barista's employer to ensure that they are compensated adequately.

Hey - service in Britain is great these days. East Europeans do the job very well and earn their tips!

The point I was getting across at is the service charge in most Asian countries is not a service charge, it is a FORCED tip. If tipping drives you crazy here in the United States, it drives me almost batty in Asia.

I agree.
They provide much better service that the British.
And the Australians who took over from them behind the bar of
every pub in London.
Until the East Europeans arrived.
Better looking as well. :D

In the old days I bartended in some high end high volume restaurants, so I'm speaking from experience. Restaurants in trying to lower labor costs have moved tipping to lots of jobs that never got them in the past. In a big restaurant the waiter has to tip the: bartender, busboy, food runner, expediter, sommelier, and now worse of all - the host - an obvious conflict of interest. Next, they'll probably make them tip the managers. Waiters in some stores are shelling out 60% of their swag. Being a waiter is an awful job IMO. Everybody is yelling at you (cooks, bartenders, customers, and managers) and you get blamed when everybody else screws up. Worse of all - you have to bend over backwards to placate complete ***holes. It's right near the top in high stress jobs. As long as they're trying, I'll tip them well. Bad service - 15% and I'll tell them they should do something else for a living. wj

To be perfectly honest I reject the notion that service in the US is better than many other places (namely Europe and Australia). While I appreciate US customer service as going above and beyond what should be expected, the service in restaurants is often overbearing and too much. I don't want to know the waiter's life story, I don't want to be asked is everything is okay every five minutes etc. I want you to tell me the specials, get my order right and top up my glass (if it is a higher end restaurant). That is sufficient and this style of minimal service is what I expect in a restaurant in Australia. If the above type of service can't be met then I will be happy to take my business elsewhere. It is up to the restaurant to get their staff to do their job, it shouldn't be the customer's role.

I agree with everything you say except this.
It is my wine because I bought it and it is my glass . I want to top it up when I'm ready.
If some waiter comes up and tries to top up my glass I politely ask them not to do it.
If they try to do it again I fix them them with an icy glare and say " Please leave my wine alone. "
If they persist in doing it again I call the manager over and inform them that I have a pump-action shotgun in my car and I will go and fetch it if anyone else touches my wine.
They've had two polite requests - how many more do they need ?
As ever, eating out is about establishing parameters - you are the customer, you are paying their wages.
End of story.

Pretty bold words for someone who starts sentences with and. How exactly do I keep bad restaurants in business. Please, enlighten me.

If by grumpy you mean the person who calls others on their own BS and actually speaks my mind instead of just sugar coating everything, then I guess that would be grumpy. :rolleyes: Should you just want to make a post in a thread that is a personal insult to me, then feel free to use the Private Message part of the forum as per the terms of the website. I'd be happy to address your whining there.

Your experience with a small number of wait staff being overbearing doesn't mean that service is better elsewhere. Often times, you don't even get a drink refilled at lunch in Aussie after your food is served. Tips in the US do equate to better service.

Is there some reason why you write in sentences
and not paragraphs?
It's hard to read and
paragraphs look better and are much easier to read.

In terms of your wine, it's an expectation level of service in places that serve wine and what you're asking is akin to you telling the restaurant to let you pick the food up in the kitchen. You're making an unusual request. I served 10's of thousands of people in the business when I worked in it. I don't recall EVER hearing of anyone not wanting me to top up wine. There were people who were done, but none who I ever ran into who acted like you.

Most wait staff are perfectly willing to go along with what a customer asks, but they're trained to top the wine. They always have done so and it's likely just instinct. It very well could be the wait staff don't like you and are enjoying watching you become ever more frustrated. Losing out a few tips sometimes is worth it.

There's no pent up issues. You made two one or two line quips about my post. Should you have a material problem with any of it, how about manning the hell up and addressing it instead of this whiny passive aggressive thing you're doing. Have an issue with what I say? Address what's wrong with what I say. Otherwise, feel free to use the Private Message function so I can ignore whatever it is you type. Other people, myself included, have taken time to write on topic posts here. Show some respect to them if not me and address what people are actually saying here instead of just whining.

You'll get respect when you give it general. Funny how you get all bent out of shape when someone treats you the way you have treated others...but in your world, you're always right and if there is a victim it is you.

In one brother.
But the view must be splendid from up on his high horse ;)

There is generally no tipping in Japan and service is good.

You might as well state: "I hate commissioned sales. How can we end it?" You might find a wider audience in agreement with you.

Personally, I like tipping. In high school and college, I worked in restaurants as a waiter and busboy. From personal experience, I can tell you that some people make a very good living from tips and some don't. The reason is some are better at their job and some aren't. I sincerely enjoy acknowledging better service with my wallet. I am less excited about acknowledging poor service with a lesser tip, but do it when I must. I have eaten in other countries where tipping is not part of the culture and have found service to be generally indifferent.

You're going to pay for the cost of the service one way or another, since no one works for free. I prefer one way. You're entitled to prefer another. Maybe there should be a choice; flat 18% service charge or tip what you think the service was worth.

Why an 18% service charge?

How about: "The restaurant pays its staff a wage they can live off of, lists an all-inclusive price and you tip whatever you like if you think the service was worth it." This way everyone's being up-front and honest to everybody else and you don't need an accounting degree to settle your restaurant bill.

As for the waiters, this gives them some degree of financial security (in form of a decent, predictable wage) while still retaining the possibility to super-charge their earnings by going the extra mile for their customers.

Why overcomplicate things unnecessarily?

Just my two cents...
 

Waitstaff are paid $2.01 in Ohio. They exist on their tips. I have never been waitstaff so I do not know what it is like, but I can assume it is difficult work.

I have been in commissioned sales while working for my fathers' company, and that is not easy as well.

It will be strange as I travel to France in two months time, not to tip.

The quality of service does not depend on whether tipping is permitted or not. It is dependent on how the owner or manager runs his/her business and the expectations put on employees.

If you hate tipping, do as I do and just don't tip.

No one has given me a tip in 20 years of working. I served others every day. So I don't see why I should tip someone for carrying some plates to my table.

It is gullible for restaurant patrons to buy into the line that "a 15% tip is standard". Actually in the past few years this has changed to "a 20% tip is standard". In reality, more than 50% of customers do not tip, among those who do tip the average is about 10%. A small gullible few are subsidizing the rest of us by tipping 15% to 20%. As several relatives and friends have worked in restaurants in the past, I found this out during meals when they chided me after I would leave 15% tips. One of them told me she had never received tips, another remembered a tipper because it was the only time she was ever tipped.

The tipping scam works like this: make patrons think a tip is standard and almost required. Make them think they will lose face and look cheap if they don't tip. Make it the expectation that they will tip, and make them anxious about the embarrassment they will feel if they don't tip. If only a fraction of people fall for this, the tipping scam has worked.

I have noticed no decline in service since I have stopped tipping. I encourage the big tippers to continue subsidizing my restaurant meals.

A most sensible principle and one which I always apply.
If someone is deserving of my generosity I give it - if they're rude or incompetent I don't.
However, as you say, there will always be numbskulls who give people money for treating them like dirt because somehow they think it's " classy. " :D

As a Canadian, this has always driven me mad. Our servers all get at least minimum wage ($8-$10), but over the past decade our tipping expectation has gone to match the US.

We have a very nice Starbucks in our local Safeway, the staff is always pleasant and efficient, and there is absolutely no tip jar in sight. Tipping at Starbucks, or in Canada Blenz or 2nd Cup or another coffee house is BS, we don't tip at McDonalds, Burger King, Tim Hortons, or any other fast food place, but for some reason Starbucks and the other coffee houses must think they are above the run of the mill and their service expects something in return, that is a load of garbage and those that tip in these coffee houses just because they think it is "cool" or "in" are fools, no other way for me to say it.