As a former waitress, and probably not a good one, I really hate tipping. I don't eat out much and when I do, I generally tip at 15%. However, I am never afraid to (politely) complain about the food or the service to the management (much to my spouse's or children's dismay). This is certainly a more effective way to give "feedback" than a poor tip.

A friend who used to wait tables in a fine dining establishment is now an executive who entertains often for business. He told me that he actually tips less (15%) on big tabs and more for the small meals (20%). I can't remember his logic...but was happy to hear it. Since when does serving a steak take more expertise than serving a sandwich?

But as someone else mentioned, tipping the hairdresser really rubs me the wrong way. The salon gets top dollar for these services, and I'd be very surprised to think that she is working for less than minimum wage, like a restaurant worker. Same for the masseuse. We receive so many services that we don't tip for, however did it turn out that we have to tip these workers? Does anyone tip their physical therapist? Their trash collector? The man who mows the lawn? Please, the business sets a fair price for it's services. Why should we have to give more? And while I'm at it, do you feel obliged to tip appliance delivery men, or contractors that do work in your home? Where does it all end?

Someone needs to start a facebook group, "1 million against tipping"

It doesn't seem to end at all!!
The percentage we are expected to tip keeps going up (really? 20% since when, exactly, while the meal prices keep rising?!)
I pay a huge price for a clean hotel room, and someone says I should tip the maid.
I got two envelopes for X-mas tips delivered with my newspaper; two envelopes for the same guy, who delivers the two newspapers at the same time!! I pay a fee for delivery already!
I pay extra to the store to have an appliance or furniture delivered, and read later that those guys are supposed to be tipped?
I HATE the tipping society, and the increasing expectations of tips, and the confusion about it. And if you object to tipping anyone that isn't paid under the minimum wage, you called a cheapskate! ("If you can't afford to tip the maid, you can't afford a hotel room"):mad:

And don't forget to tip your server for accepting the tip.

Don't forget the alcohol. If you go out and have a $40 bottle of wine in ontario - which likely cost less than $10 in the LCBO - you have to pay the markup, the liquor tax, the regular tax and tip!

I give a higher percent on breakfast - if I go out for sunday brunch it quite often involves more people and people are not in a rush to leave and of course it comes out to be significantly cheaper than an evening meal of similar duration. Even if it's just the two of us the servers come by very frequently with water and coffee, honestly breakfast service is usually better than dinner service.

For the latter, I get my hair cut at a cheap place. I'm sure they pay the hairdressers a pittance and quite often I'm guessing I double their hourly wage with my tip - but compared to some salons that would cost me up to five times the cost I think the tip is well deserved. Additionally I think a lot of people cut hair there as a second or third job, so if they do a good job I think they deserve a boost.

Everyone, let's not forget the most important tip about tipping I learned on FT: don't tip on tax, tip on subtotal.

Servers are looked at based on sales, not sales + tax. If you are tipping on the total with tax you are actually tipping more than you though %age-wise.

Most of the POS (point of sale) software out there that prints a suggested tip at the bottom seems to factor in total after tax. My company is the largest reseller of micros registers, but I don't deal with POS stuff and the catering stuff I deal with does not allow gratuity to calculate for a customer based on taxes (for auto gratuities).

Why stop at abolishing tipping? While we're at it, why don't we insist that sales tax is included in the sale price? Not just in a restaurant, but everywhere.

By law that is what must happen in Australia and New Zealand.

The same thing with airfares (advertised airfares must show inclusions of taxes and charges; none of this airfares for $1* (* excludes taxes and surcharges) B.S.)

I believe that in at least one state in Australia, if you want to, say, surcharge for Sundays and public holidays, you can't just have a clause at the bottom of the menu saying, "15% surcharge on Sundays and public holidays". Instead, you need to produce a separate menu for Sundays and public holidays which shows the extra 15% already added to the price (and just for good measure, you should probably make specific mention that the prices on the menu are inclusive of this surcharge).


Tipping on the base amount rather than the grand total makes sense, as sales taxes go straight to the government, not into any coffers of the collective working at the establishment.

What irks me is when people decide to tip a certain amount and then judging by your appearance, character, apparent sophistication or the fact that you are at a certain quality of establishment, and then decide that your tip is cheap. For example, you might be the branch manager of a bank down the road, but if you leave only a 15% tip then you're cheap. Celebrities often make the news for leaving apparently meagre tips.

We've got it right down under mate...

Waiters are paid $16-$30 per hour, no need or expectation to tip.
But IF YOU WANT TO, YOU MAY!

Tipping
 

We are pratically the only country in the world that tipping is almost considered mandatory in restaurants/bars. Heck if you go into a Starbucks the barista has a tip jar out. A friend of my from England told me that tipping is almost unheard of over there. He told me is what they do is "round off" the bill meaning is their tab comes to $48.13 they willl leave $50.00. In terms of the United States I am all for tipping for good service but it seems like emoloyees expect 15-20 percent tip no matter how good their service is.

And prompt everytime as well. :D

Sanosuke!

This is misleading - Australia doesn't have a "refills" culture and it's nothing to do with the quality of service. Unless you're drinking tap water or your own wine each drink is a new purchase - unless things have changed dramatically since I moved to the US in 2007.

I too dispute this idea that Australia has "worse service" than the US due to the lack of a tipping culture. The service is just "different" and how we like it. Waiters know not to hover over customers because we find this annoying. It drives me crazy in the US how before I've even had half a dozen bites of my food the waiter has already been back twice to ask me how everything is or if they can get me anything else and so forth. I respect that Americans want this sort of service, but people from other countries DO find it overbearing and my experience is not "one or two places", it's just about every restaurant I have been to, eating out at least once a week since I got here.

In Australia if you want help from your waiter you're expected to make subtle signals, make eye contact etc if you want something, want a new drink and so forth. They aren't keeping their distance because they "don't need to try hard because there is no tipping", they are doing so because culturally Australians prefer to be left alone rather than fawned over in a dining situation.

It's just "culturally different service" not "bad service". Tipping or lack thereof has nothing to do with it whatsoever.

I've had bad service in Australia and great service in Australia. Bad service in the USA and great service in the USA. It's all about people, not the threat of no tip.

You are going to be charged for the service no matter what system is involved and I prefer to acknowledge good service with something extra (no matter what system is involved). If you're thrifty and egocentric - don't tip. It's the only way to beat the system. Be sure to switch up your venues though. wj

Really? The difference there is that you can give immediate feedback in the US to your server in the form of no tip. In Australia, they don't give a crap.

Incidentally, wait staff in Australia are paid a LOT more per hour. In the busiest times of the day, they're often paid 3x or what you would get per hour in the United States. I hate to break it to you, but that shows up on your check. Just because you can't conceptualize that doesn't mean that it isn't real.

Just got back from NYC, where it seems places now automatically add the percentage they want as a compulsory tip, in one case over 26%.

I find that to be totally unacceptable.

I would agree. What kinds of places?

One was a very nice Italian in Little Italy, they added c15%, which I probably would of added anyway.

the annoying one was over 26% at a sports bar on 9th Ave on a $18 plus tax bill for a simple burger and a beer.

I fail to see how anyone can justify a compulsory 'tip' of over 26% for such a simple combination.

If I am given exceptional service I will give a tip, of an amount I feel appropriate, however it is for me to decide if and how much I leave as a tip.

A compulsory tip is contradictory for sure. Did you question it?

Are you U.S. based? Some establishments add a sort of service compris for non-US residents who are unfamiliar with U.S. tipping customs.

I agree.

One cannot even begin to compare the service industry in Japan with that in the US or Europe.
In Japan, people take pride in a job well done for the sake of actually DOING it, not for compensation.

That mentality is not a common element in the workforce elsewhere.

When was the last time anyone came (literally) running over to help you in a shop?

All agreed!

In fact, in Japan, it doesn't matter how good the service was - you don't tip! It's actually treated as an insult (i.e. why are you bribing / paying me more to do my job?). Profuse thanks is all you can offer if you so desire.

I treat tipping in the US as a cultural norm. Just as if you went to a Muslim country it is your responsibility to respect their norms in dressing conservatively and not showing signs of affection in public.

I'm a little bit over all the arguments of, "It's not my fault that your employer pays you peanuts; why should I be responsible for the shortfall?" Whilst in theory those people are right, they are also missing an entirely separate point.

At the same time, however, I'd rather have staff that provide good service because they know it's a good thing to do, not that they'll get an extra 10-15% out of me if they don't do it. It's a subtle but important distinction for me, but unfortunately I think the US tipping culture coupled with a possible assumed naivety of foreigners breeds an attitude of the latter type.

The funny part to all of this is if the tipping culture was not there but all prices rose by 15-20% with a note to all patrons that their waiter would receive that 15-20% as a "commission" (i.e. same as a tip, just different words), then would everyone be more or less "happier" and we wouldn't have all these arguments? If you really like the service, offer your extra 10-15% as you see fit. Of course, if the service was less than satisfactory, you'd need to request the manager to remove the "commission" (if other avenues of resolution also went sour).

Fredd,

I'm from England and was in NYC on holiday last week.

A compulsory tip of 26% for a drink and a simple meal seems very excessive to me. i did ask how they justified such a large 'compulsory' tip and the reaction wasn't very pleasant. I won't be going back to that bar again the next time I visit NYC.

I had a similar meal from the pub next to work today and there was no need to tip or expectation that a tip was required.

Agreed. It was a ripoff and it's disgraceful for that to happen to anybody, let alone a visitor. :td: IMO it's harder to question such things when you're from "out of town." I'd complain much more vociferously in NYC than I would in the very unlikely event it occurred in London.

They have you where they want you. :mad:

THe shame is it was actually a pretty decent sports bar, the food was good and I would of rounded up the bill to a convenient whole number.

The whole episode just left a bad taste and spoiled what had been an enjoyable meal, although $7.00 for a glass of beer did seem very high!

I guss we just have cultural differences when it comes to tipping.

$7 might not be that far out of line in a nice joint in NYC, unless you're talking about an American light beer. :p

For a stand-alone glass of beer I'd have added $1. If the service is good I'll usually tip up to 20% somewhere between the basic price and the price plus tax. We haven't been in NYC in a few years and I can't recall the exact taxes so I don't know if your 26% is fairly close to my 20% on the total. In any case, a 15% tip on the basic bill of $18, i.e. $3, is most acceptable and the compulsory tip is what's completely unacceptable. :td:

It was draught Sam Adams, which tasted pretty good.

That's some small consolation. :) I'd hate to think you underwent this over a Coors Light. ;)

Sorry, if you can afford to eat out, you can afford to tip.
It's part of this country's dining/restaurant culture, learn to live with it or don't eat out.

Don't want to tip, go to McDonald's.

This reminds me of a local spa that I went to once -- upon coming out of my treatment and pulling out my credit card to pay, the receptionist loudly asked, "So would you like a 20% or 25% tip added to your bill"...to which I responded, "I'll add the tip myself, thanks." I was mortified that they would try to publically shame their customers into tipping bigger and I never went back (even though the spa treatment was pretty good).

Maybe you missed the initial point of this thread. Finding a way out of the tipping minefield.

There's another option.

It's called my right not to tip. Otherwise known as one's prerogative.

And then there are the places in NYC that automatically add a tip and still have a line available for you to add your own. My (tipsy) husband started writing on the line at a club we visited last year until I reviewed the check to find they had already added a hefty mandatory tip for serving wine in plastic glasses. I can't remember the name of this crappy establishment, but I definitely make sure to check the receipts of bars and clubs in NYC since they seem eager to take advantage of their drunk patrons.

I've seen that nasty little trick elsewhere, including Europe. It's worth checking. Mrs. Fredd has also saved me once or twice. ;)

You miss the point, I was going to leave a tip, but it was the imposition of a COMPULSORY tip of over 26% I was unhappy about. After all a tip is an optional payment at the CUSTOMERS discretion.

Your attitude is overly aggressive, all I was doing was politely expressing a valid opinion.

In a world, especially the world of travel, where "unbundling" of services has become so prevalent (you want to check luggage, that'll be $25; on some airlines, you limit yourself to carryon luggage, that'll be $25; at some banks, you want to deal with a teller, that'll be $2; and the MGM Grand unsuccessfully attempting to charge a $20 premium for nonsmoking rooms), it appears that tipping may have been the originally unbundled cost.

I agree that it would be better if restaurants paid a decent living wage to their servers rather than a wage lower than minimum and relying on tips to make up (or more than make up) for the difference, but I suspect that it's very unlikely that this will occur in the United States. I seem to remember hearing that Thomas Keller of Per Se/French Laundry fame had attempted this approach. I never heard if he was able to sustain this, but even if he has, I've not heard of other restaurants rushing out to join him. And, of course, his prices are much higher than at all but a few restaurants in the US.

I know perfectly well that eating out is more expensive in Australia as a result of our waitstaff making a living wage. I never even commented on the cost of meals or the merits of tipping one way or the other except to dispute this idea that service is bad in Australia due to lack of tipping.

Do I think tipping is worth the cheaper price of meals? Not really, I find it to be a messy and ambiguous, pseudo-compulsory "option" that sets up an awkward master and servant dynamic between diner and server. As I mentioned in this previous post, as someone who lived most of their life without the "Is everything OK? 17 times per meal" I find it a negative - people who are used to it will not.

Tipping
 

My thoughts:

I never do not leave a tip. If service was lousy I will leave a dollar, or less tip. I want to make sure the server understands that I did not forget to tip, I tipped what there service was worth.

I guess, based on this thread, that its wrong of me but.....

However, being born and raised outside the US, i tip 10% only on extremely good service. I am born in Asia and raised in Europe. In fact, this thread really makes me regret moving to the US in the first place. But come on, the globe is bigger the the US..It is a matter of raising above what the US thinks, wants and means..

Tipping is only when deserved. Just like when someone asks you "how are you you doing" is for when you REALLY mean it. The diversity of this country leaves this kind of pointlessness to only when you mean it. Otherwise its pointless to ask, just ask any banker that is told to ask this, and when you respond with anything but " fine thank you, and how are you" they look at you like you are an alien..

Try visit any Asian country, and then I do not mean a Asian dinner in the US. They do not ask you UNLESS they actually mean it. Not some fake standard wannabe customer issued statement like here.

If I were a server and worked my hardest to provide you with excellent service and then only received a 10% tip from you here in the U.S., I would feel extremely insulted.

Part of moving to another culture is adapting to that culture's norm. Your actions not only show an arrogance to the local culture but also have the potential to cause financial harm to an individual who did nothing wrong.

A fair comment, and I tip as appropriate when in the US (even though I detest the US-style tipping culture).

I'm wondering how many US people do the reverse...i.e. refrain from tipping in other cultures in many of the ~200 countries that are not the US, where tipping may be an inappropriate or even offensive practice. I suspect many just can't help themselves and tip regardless.

The "sticky" thread, Foreign Tipping Guide by Country & Region, has had nearly 260,000 views, indicating that FTers want to learn what is appropriate.