It depends on the style of service that you like. American style service is quite different from the rest of the world. In a month of traveling through Asia, Australia, and New Zealand, I have yet to ONCE have a server ask me how I'm enjoying my meal while I still had food on my plate. That's completely normal for over here, but in America, that would be considered inferior service. Most non-American restaurants that I have frequented have servers that stand in an available area and only come to the table when beckoned, whereas Americans, in general, have come to prefer the server to check back on their needs and not need to be "directed".

In America, it's customary to bring the check when you've asked if the table cares for anything else and they have declined, assuming that the next logical step would be the settling of the bill. This is considered rude in other locales. American style service is not better nor worse, just different.


No one likes Macaroni Grille style service. I find it annoying too, but it's not like it's the server that decided to do this. It's company policy.

To answer the question posed by the OP though, if you want to end tipping, just raise all the prices on the menu 20%. I'm in New Zealand now and tipping is pretty much non-existent. But, the mains on the menu are pretty much all $30+ to help the employer pay the staff salary. In general, the other costs here are in line with American prices, but restaurants are quite a bit more expensive.

If you want a similar price point in the US, we can eliminate tipping. In my opinion, it's a zero-sum game for the consumer either way.

$25 main course + $5 tip = $30 for the consumer

or

$30 main course (because the price was increased because of additional cost passed onto the employer) + $0 tip = $30 for the consumer

At least one of those options gives you the opportunity to pay less if you were provided with substandard service.

Chris

My approach is, when in Rome. I've dined many, many times in many cities in the US (and other foreign countries) and I've always been on my best behaviour and not forced my personal preferences on the people in whose environment I am a guest. That would just be rude.

I understand how American service works. When there, I abide by their rules, just as when I visit, for example, Malaysia, I abide by their rules and won't insist on bacon for breakfast.

My personal preference is that when I feel the need to give feedback then I will give it. At home, when there's a problem with my meal or the service, then I'll call it to the attention of the server. If my steak is too well done, or too raw then I have no problem letting them know. If everything is good then I'm happy to enjoy my meal, enjoy the company of the people that I'm sharing the meal with and be left in peace.

I'm much happier dining in places where compulsory tipping is not the custom. And since this is roughly 97% of the planet, then I'm comfortable in most places.

And while you're crouching down there, Todd, please don't even think about putting your hand on my shoulder. If I wanted physical contact with you I wouldn't have visited a restaurant, I would have gone to a completely different type of establishment.

$30 in which currency? That would be roughly $23AUD or $25US (or 18 Euros, but I suspect that's not what you mean) if it's NZ$. (This is a genuine question, another thread that I'm involved in has a Canadian quoting hotel prices as $300 euros, which means nothing - nobody is sure if he means $300 Canadian, $300 US or 300 Euros)

None of the menu price in NZ is "helping" the employer to pay the staff salary any more than Monoprix charging 5 euros for a bottle of shampoo is "helping" to pay the cashiers wages. It's what they factor in to what they charge the punters.

And I understand all those points quite well having traveled in lots of foreign countries. I'm also very much a "When in Rome" person. The point I fail to understand, however, is why people are so put off by tipping in America when, like I said, if we changed the tipping culture, it would just increase all the menu prices accordingly. It wouldn't change the total financial outlay by the diner, it would just be all-inclusive as opposed to compartmentalized. I can think of no other service where one gets the choice of how much to pay for it AFTER the job is done. It seems to me that that provides a better chance for the consumer to get value for his/her money.

I've found most mains at a nicer place are on the order of 32-40 NZ$, so I guess I'm saying about $30 US. I am in Queenstown which, as I understand, is one of the most expensive places in NZ.

And of course the menu price is "helping" to pay salary. Revenue brought in helps offset overhead. Staff wages are certainly overhead. In the US, as the example I provided relates to, there is little overhead required for staff wages (servers' specifically), hence menu prices are cheaper than they otherwise would be.

Chris

And I can think of no other service where you pay for a bit of the service before you receive the service, then decide whether or not you should pay a bit more after you receive the service. And risk an earful of abuse if your decision doesn't coincide favourably with the recipient of your largesse.

People are put off it when they visit the US because it lacks logic and can be intimidating. It's not about being mean, it's about not understanding, and believe me, I've asked many Americans to explain their tipping culture and they invariably end up throwing their hands in the air because even they, who live there and deal with it every day, can't adequately explain it themselves.

No more or no less than the prices that any business charges for goods anywhere. Do you tip the check out person when you visit the supermarket? After all, the toilet paper that you buy is priced so that they can "help" to pay the staff.

Maybe I'm just reading this incorrectly, but what are you paying before you receive the bill and total everything up?

If a server ever came to me questioning the gratuity that I left (other than perhaps a math error in summing up the two amounts), I would immediately "un-tip" them.

This I do agree with. I have no idea why America tips the way that they do and how it all came about. Just like I don't know why we're the only country with ice consistently in our drinks. That said, I'll sound like a broken record when I say that if we didn't have the tipping like we do, everyone would still end up paying the same amount in the end, so I don't get everyone else's consternation with the idea.

No, but if the precedent had been set that the TP was a base price and then you tipped how well the check-out person did their job, you'd still likely end up paying the same amount (if we're really extrapolating this example to the serving example).

Chris

I understand the frustrations of those unsure of American (and Canadian) customs regarding tipping. Sometimes North Americans are unsure too.

In the various pro-and-con discussions, however, statements such as the above confuse me.

In many of the countries I've eaten in the world, a service charge is added or is included, e.g. Service Compris, Coperto.

IMHO those fit the definition of "compulsory tipping."

And I'm still left with the decision of whether to "leave a few coins on the table," and if so how many.

I wonder if many of the people who are opposed to tipping simply believe it's not not egalitarian and are uncomfortable with a perceived "master-servant" relationship with a server.

But professional servers aren't seen as 'servants'. And having been on both sides of the equation, I never considered myself either a master or a servant.

I simply don't like certain types of service. I feel the same way flying a US carrier vs a European carrier when the FA or the purser asks me overly personal questions (or what I perceive as overly personal, and which they and other passengers most likely consider 'good service' or 'being friendly'.)

In a tipping culture, that type of 'personal' service may be more likely because the server is working for the tip.

The "master-servant relationship" is just a legalistic-type description of any employer-employee relationship. The type of familiarity you describe strikes me as something of a national characteristic and occurs just as often in situations in which no tipping is involved, so I don't see it as cause-and-effect.

I certainly understand your feeling uncomfortable about the American penchant (huge generalization warning ) for recounting life stories or making seemingly personal comments in casual encounters - or while serving you coffee. We notice it ourselves, especially after returning from abroad. Likewise, some Americans (not the Fredds) may also generalize that other nationalities may be "cold" or "formal" or downright "unfriendly."

Americans may also make unfair inferences when waiters in some countries, e.g. Austria, often stand over one with purse in hand expecting immediate payment as soon as they deliver the bill. "He must suspect we're going to dine and dash." I don't recall a French waiter ever asking us if the food is to our liking, and I've always figured that's because the French are supremely confident that their cuisine is the best. The German waiter's habitual "Schmeckt Gut?" is more familiar to us. As you know, for a server not to ask in North America is considered to be "bad service."

A few years ago, the morning after we'd returned from a couple of weeks in Europe, we ate at a Denny's, mentioning to the waitress we needed coffee because we were still adjusting after the flight and the time change.

We must have eaten our breakfast quickly, because on her way by awhile later she looked at our empty plates and exclaimed with a smile, "Didn't they feed you over there?"

It would be easy to be offended. We thought it was hilarious (we knew we were back in the US) and, yes, we did leave her a generous tip.

Cool.. so they just serve in Europe? and just expect the tip? Different servers have different personalities.. doesn't bother me, but last night my wife noticed this at the 'Lets go Crabbing' at Hapuna Prince on Big Island. My wife was irritated with the server.

lol. I generally tip consistently.. but do waver a bit on what sort of service I get. A few times this past year, I did not tip on two occassions, the 300+ times we've eaten at restaurants. I had no choice on those two occassions.

Interesting thread.

There are many urban legends of tipping and why it began. One such legend states that in early America, tavern servers were horrible in their service. Small baskets were placed on tables with the words "To Improve Promptness" written on them. If you wanted your "Waiter" to come to your table and serve you in prompt fashion, you put some coin in the "T.I.P." basket.

Nice story. Perhaps it's true. Whatever the reason, it's a fact of life that restaurant waiters/waitresses in the U.S. expect a tip. Those of us that grew up with this are simply used to it.

I do like my European travels. It's a bit different in some other countries for sure, but I still tip.

I'm not certain what you are asking. Tipping in the North American fashion is not the norm in restaurants in many European countries (or other countries around the world).

Again, 'Europe' is a large number of countries each with different cultures and different customs and habits. Grouping it together as 'Europe' and expecting people to behave the same everywhere just isn't reasonable.

There is a cultural difference which Fredd tried to explain (quite well, I thought) between how many people behave in the US vs certain other cultures in the world. For instance, in many parts of the world it is generally considered intrusive or even rude to ask overly personal questions. Smiling at strangers is considered rude in many parts of the world (or one may be thought to be slightly 'off' if one walks down the street smiling at random people) My posts may be considered straightforward by some readers here, while others may think me a big poopyhead.

One of the common complaints from some North Americans who visit France is that 'the server ignored me' or 'the meal took too long'. That is just a difference in how things are done. (And all of these are generalities and not intended to paint people with a broad brush, but I am trying to explain in very simple terms)

Rather than assuming that all cultures behave the same or follow the same habits in 'Europe', why not purchase a book and read about how these things vary from country to country, and even region to region? Even in Germany things can vary from north to south to east to west. There are some good books on the subject which give basic advice for a number of countries.

The same holds true for tipping. Just because one tips in North America does not mean that one should tip in other parts of the world. In fact, as pointed out here on this thread several times, tipping certain positions in certain countries can even be considered rude or offensive. Best to read up before one travels, to be prepared for these variances.

Funny. I've always thought it was very classy for the waiter (or flight attendant) to 'crouch' while taking my order, especially when in a group. Much more personal.