I hate tipping, how can we end it?
Dec 14, 2009, 1:08 pm
#46
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At my Safeway *bucks, there is usually some sort of charity jar for those who really don't want their change.
Dec 21, 2009, 5:12 am
#47
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Brisbane
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There's a lot of bones of contention here about tipping in the dining and restaurant industry (and also including bars, etc.)
When I next go to the US, I would find it hard not to tip mechanically, because there always seems to be a "convention" and the rules shift from demographic to demographic, from area to area and year to year. For example, how much should you offer as a tip for an average (read: everything was in order but nothing spectacular) service meal? Are there cases for no tip? What's a good amount to give for exceptional service? What happens (or what would the restaurant and/or its staff be "entitled" to do to you) if you undertip, whether you left 0% or 35% of the total bill? Do you tip every time you get served or do you only tip at the end? Even in this thread and so many other tipping threads (yes, we all know how many there are!), no one can come to an agreement.
My main problems (problems = I don't know how to deal with it, not that I have an issue with it...or at least yet) is for other service people in other industries (and seeing this is in DiningBuzz! I might just be going a bit O/T here). For example, hotel porters, valet, skycaps, check-in agents (e.g. airport counter, hotel counter), housekeeping, concierge, taxi/limo drivers, etc.. A good example would be if I arrived at a hotel and a porter took my bag when I really wanted to carry it by myself. OK first impression is that I am a cheapskate (so shoot me) - trying to carry my own bag to save on paying the porter - but it would seem you would just have to tip the porter even though the service was not wanted? Do you need to leave a per diem or something in your room everyday for housekeeping, and if so how much (e.g. as a % of how much you paid for the room? What about award stays - tips can't be given in points!).
What do people who "expect" a tip do when they are supposed to get a tip but the customer forgets or doesn't proffer one? That awkward silence between the two parties and perhaps only when the worker rubs their fingertips together that perhaps something gets done. Is it wrong to ask a worker how much they should (or they normally receive) as a tip and give that amount to them? If you really want to reward a particular person, what should you do if you don't know (or if you do know) if the place collects all tips and divides them equally amongst all the service staff? Here's one: how do you leave a tip if the food is exquisite but the service is very, very ordinary - so you would like to tip the chef (if you could) but not overly tip the waiter?
I love some of the stories I hear sometimes of celebrities dining at places and apparently leaving an "insufficient" tip. Like the staff were expecting at least double of what the common person being served would tip. Seems rather crass (but a good excuse for a news article for a budding journalist!)
In Australia, there is no tipping culture. Unless you so desire it, you may leave a tip, and I like to do it myself when the service is much better than average. Prices in Australia have a blanket 10% goods and services tax which must be included in printed prices by law. So I am used to reading the price of items on a menu and understanding that they include what I pay for the venue, the time I spend in it, the service and the quality of the food. And if there is a disconnect with that, I would see to it that the manager is informed and perhaps there be some resolution.
A great example of this (although not in Australia but similar culture) is when I dined at Harvey Nichols fifth floor restaurant in London. The prices of the food - even the market menu - were by no means cheap, but I was very impressed by the attentiveness of the service and the quality of the food was immaculate. Well worth every penny and quid I spent that afternoon.
Does someone have a printable guide like the "one stop shop" guide to tipping in the US? Does this section from Wikitravel seem accurate enough?
When I next go to the US, I would find it hard not to tip mechanically, because there always seems to be a "convention" and the rules shift from demographic to demographic, from area to area and year to year. For example, how much should you offer as a tip for an average (read: everything was in order but nothing spectacular) service meal? Are there cases for no tip? What's a good amount to give for exceptional service? What happens (or what would the restaurant and/or its staff be "entitled" to do to you) if you undertip, whether you left 0% or 35% of the total bill? Do you tip every time you get served or do you only tip at the end? Even in this thread and so many other tipping threads (yes, we all know how many there are!), no one can come to an agreement.
My main problems (problems = I don't know how to deal with it, not that I have an issue with it...or at least yet) is for other service people in other industries (and seeing this is in DiningBuzz! I might just be going a bit O/T here). For example, hotel porters, valet, skycaps, check-in agents (e.g. airport counter, hotel counter), housekeeping, concierge, taxi/limo drivers, etc.. A good example would be if I arrived at a hotel and a porter took my bag when I really wanted to carry it by myself. OK first impression is that I am a cheapskate (so shoot me) - trying to carry my own bag to save on paying the porter - but it would seem you would just have to tip the porter even though the service was not wanted? Do you need to leave a per diem or something in your room everyday for housekeeping, and if so how much (e.g. as a % of how much you paid for the room? What about award stays - tips can't be given in points!).
What do people who "expect" a tip do when they are supposed to get a tip but the customer forgets or doesn't proffer one? That awkward silence between the two parties and perhaps only when the worker rubs their fingertips together that perhaps something gets done. Is it wrong to ask a worker how much they should (or they normally receive) as a tip and give that amount to them? If you really want to reward a particular person, what should you do if you don't know (or if you do know) if the place collects all tips and divides them equally amongst all the service staff? Here's one: how do you leave a tip if the food is exquisite but the service is very, very ordinary - so you would like to tip the chef (if you could) but not overly tip the waiter?
I love some of the stories I hear sometimes of celebrities dining at places and apparently leaving an "insufficient" tip. Like the staff were expecting at least double of what the common person being served would tip. Seems rather crass (but a good excuse for a news article for a budding journalist!)
In Australia, there is no tipping culture. Unless you so desire it, you may leave a tip, and I like to do it myself when the service is much better than average. Prices in Australia have a blanket 10% goods and services tax which must be included in printed prices by law. So I am used to reading the price of items on a menu and understanding that they include what I pay for the venue, the time I spend in it, the service and the quality of the food. And if there is a disconnect with that, I would see to it that the manager is informed and perhaps there be some resolution.
A great example of this (although not in Australia but similar culture) is when I dined at Harvey Nichols fifth floor restaurant in London. The prices of the food - even the market menu - were by no means cheap, but I was very impressed by the attentiveness of the service and the quality of the food was immaculate. Well worth every penny and quid I spent that afternoon.
Does someone have a printable guide like the "one stop shop" guide to tipping in the US? Does this section from Wikitravel seem accurate enough?
Dec 21, 2009, 6:14 am
#48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: RDU
Posts: 5,228
Yet another thread on tipping. Sigh. 
I hate threads on tipping. How can we end it? 
- Which countries around the world generally do not have tipping?
- Credit card company keeps percentage of servers tips
- The 17% is a service charge, sir, it is not a tip
- Do you find you tip larger amount when restaurant has idine restaurant rewards
- Tip already included but bad service, what to do
- Service included restaurants... Tip?
- I gave pretty bad tip tonight intentionally, thoughts?
- Tipping cheat
- Should I tip at Japanese restaurants outside Japan?
- Ever had your written restaurant tip involuntarily increased?
- Tipping again, this time its new
- Tipping room service
- Tipping comped dishes
- Do you tip if bad service received?
- How much do you tip for drinks only?
- How much would you tip?
- Tipping in Europe
- WSJ July 29 tipping
- Tipping Applebees carside
- Popular NY eatery discontinuing tipping policy
- Tip jars getting out of hand
- How do you know the waitperson gets their charged tip?
- Tipping etiquette at buffet
- Do you tip when ordering take out?
- International tipping
Last edited by zitsky; Dec 21, 2009 at 9:23 am Reason: Added links to other tipping threads
Dec 21, 2009, 8:40 am
#49
Moderator: Hilton Honors forums
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Marietta, Georgia, United States
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I disagree with ending threads on tipping in general, as that apparently is a topic about which FlyerTalk members have questions and comments, but if there are indeed numerous threads with similar topics pertaining to tipping, their numbers can most certainly be reduced by having them merged together upon request by the moderators of the particular forum in which they reside.
Dec 21, 2009, 9:20 am
#50
Join Date: Apr 2008
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I disagree with ending threads on tipping in general, as that apparently is a topic about which FlyerTalk members have questions and comments, but if there are indeed numerous threads with similar topics pertaining to tipping, their numbers can most certainly be reduced by having them merged together upon request by the moderators of the particular forum in which they reside.
Dec 21, 2009, 9:27 am
#51
Moderator: Hilton Honors forums
Join Date: Dec 2002
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My post was a tongue-in-cheek play on the OP's original comment. Notice the smiley at the end of the post. It was not intended as a comment on moderation, just intended as a resource for anyone who wanted to review some of the older threads on the same subject. I can understand the interest in revisiting topics and/or updating them. It was also a gentle hint to use the search feature which is how I found the 20+ threads on tipping that had been started over the years.
What you posted actually prevented me from starting two additional threads regarding tipping.
However, in all seriousness, it is amazing how contentious an issue tipping is amongst FlyerTalk members, especially when it comes to dining around the world...
Dec 22, 2009, 12:04 pm
#52
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Of course, the same coworkers thought it was ridiculous when I told them what tipping is expected to be in New York...
Dec 24, 2009, 2:05 pm
#53
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If I see another thread on tipping I'll seriously consider ending it all.....
Dec 24, 2009, 2:17 pm
#54
Join Date: Jun 2006
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I don't mind tipping having worked half my life in the service industry.
However spending the past year in Australia and France... I can't say that I miss tipping... although the service is visibly different, much lower enthusiasm as people have no expectation of reward for better peformance.
However spending the past year in Australia and France... I can't say that I miss tipping... although the service is visibly different, much lower enthusiasm as people have no expectation of reward for better peformance.
Dec 25, 2009, 7:06 am
#55
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One of our Christmas Eve traditions is to eat out with the family after an early church service and overtip (unless the service is horrible). Fortunately, the server last night was exceptional and truly earned the 30% I left.
Dec 25, 2009, 7:54 am
#56
formerly known as 2lovelife
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If you want to stop tipping... head to the source of their headaches. The INCOME TAX man who refuse to properly monitor, invoice, and collect tax revenue deserved.
Just as Swiss tax evaders were brought down recently... the credit card companies could be interpreted to be assisting tax evasion, and forced to report tip income. Employers could be forced to withold charged tips, dispursing them on paychecks that withold tax.
Nothing changes things more than public outcry. You need a valid position to stand behind. In Canada, everyone hates tax evaders, but let the waiters slip by with their unreportted income, where they silently become millionaires.
I ended 20 years as a waiter a few years back. During that time, the amount of money I made was sickening. My employer paid me $14/hour (plus, medical, dental, life insurance, etc). I made appx $40,000/year CASH... no fewer than 100 days per year $300 and up; no fewer than $60/day for the rest of the year.
You don't need to tip. You don't need to stop tipping. But the misconception that it's just a few dollars here and there has to stop. I have no problem with a good waiter making $80,000-200,000 per year... but call a spade a spade... and level the playing feild.
Just as Swiss tax evaders were brought down recently... the credit card companies could be interpreted to be assisting tax evasion, and forced to report tip income. Employers could be forced to withold charged tips, dispursing them on paychecks that withold tax.
Nothing changes things more than public outcry. You need a valid position to stand behind. In Canada, everyone hates tax evaders, but let the waiters slip by with their unreportted income, where they silently become millionaires.
I ended 20 years as a waiter a few years back. During that time, the amount of money I made was sickening. My employer paid me $14/hour (plus, medical, dental, life insurance, etc). I made appx $40,000/year CASH... no fewer than 100 days per year $300 and up; no fewer than $60/day for the rest of the year.
You don't need to tip. You don't need to stop tipping. But the misconception that it's just a few dollars here and there has to stop. I have no problem with a good waiter making $80,000-200,000 per year... but call a spade a spade... and level the playing feild.
Dec 28, 2009, 12:37 pm
#57
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If you hate tipping, do as I do and just don't tip.
No one has given me a tip in 20 years of working. I served others every day. So I don't see why I should tip someone for carrying some plates to my table.
It is gullible for restaurant patrons to buy into the line that "a 15% tip is standard". Actually in the past few years this has changed to "a 20% tip is standard". In reality, more than 50% of customers do not tip, among those who do tip the average is about 10%. A small gullible few are subsidizing the rest of us by tipping 15% to 20%. As several relatives and friends have worked in restaurants in the past, I found this out during meals when they chided me after I would leave 15% tips. One of them told me she had never received tips, another remembered a tipper because it was the only time she was ever tipped.
The tipping scam works like this: make patrons think a tip is standard and almost required. Make them think they will lose face and look cheap if they don't tip. Make it the expectation that they will tip, and make them anxious about the embarrassment they will feel if they don't tip. If only a fraction of people fall for this, the tipping scam has worked.
I have noticed no decline in service since I have stopped tipping. I encourage the big tippers to continue subsidizing my restaurant meals.
No one has given me a tip in 20 years of working. I served others every day. So I don't see why I should tip someone for carrying some plates to my table.
It is gullible for restaurant patrons to buy into the line that "a 15% tip is standard". Actually in the past few years this has changed to "a 20% tip is standard". In reality, more than 50% of customers do not tip, among those who do tip the average is about 10%. A small gullible few are subsidizing the rest of us by tipping 15% to 20%. As several relatives and friends have worked in restaurants in the past, I found this out during meals when they chided me after I would leave 15% tips. One of them told me she had never received tips, another remembered a tipper because it was the only time she was ever tipped.
The tipping scam works like this: make patrons think a tip is standard and almost required. Make them think they will lose face and look cheap if they don't tip. Make it the expectation that they will tip, and make them anxious about the embarrassment they will feel if they don't tip. If only a fraction of people fall for this, the tipping scam has worked.
I have noticed no decline in service since I have stopped tipping. I encourage the big tippers to continue subsidizing my restaurant meals.
WOW.
So much that is not true.
WOW.
Jan 2, 2010, 2:43 pm
#58
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 334
However spending the past year in Australia and France... I can't say that I miss tipping... although the service is visibly different, much lower enthusiasm as people have no expectation of reward for better peformance.
I'll take the same cost with an option to reduce it if I'm not happy, thanks. Perhaps others are too short sighted to see this, but happily they represent a very small, cheap, portion of society.
Jan 4, 2010, 12:18 pm
#59
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 19
It's not so much the tipping I have a problem with it is the not earning the tip. I enjoy tipping great service that went beyond what the individual is forced to do, but when they expect it for doing their job then that is not cool and something has to be done about that. The best depiction of tipping is in the show 3rd Rock From the Sun, when john Lithgow puts a stack of money on the table and say this is your tip if you do something I don't like I will take money off and if you do something I do like I might add money. People should start doing that.
Jan 4, 2010, 4:34 pm
#60
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 527
It's not so much the tipping I have a problem with it is the not earning the tip. I enjoy tipping great service that went beyond what the individual is forced to do, but when they expect it for doing their job then that is not cool and something has to be done about that. The best depiction of tipping is in the show 3rd Rock From the Sun, when john Lithgow puts a stack of money on the table and say this is your tip if you do something I don't like I will take money off and if you do something I do like I might add money. People should start doing that.
A simple event like eating out should not be made into rocket science.