I hate tipping, how can we end it?
Dec 9, 2009, 12:35 pm
#16
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Posts: 5,159
It's easy to get rid of. You'd just need to take all of the people who have class and make them like people who don't tip.
Go to Australia. No tipping there. Of course, there's no great service either. The US does have the requisite service that goes to tipping. Should the math be so hard, perhaps you should spend more time in a library than in a restaurant.
The tipping culture in the US is much the fault of your government. They charge waiters for tips based their sales. That's why tipping in the US is higher than elsewhere.
Have you talked to your physician about the possibility of an anxiety disorder? I don't see why this would cause you so much stress. I'd bring it up with your GP the next time you're in there. It sounds like some Paxil would make you enjoy dinner a lot more.
It's that way by design. If I bring in a large group and someone takes care of them all night, I want that line in the receipt. Whining about it when you can just line it through is sort of stupid. Other guests want it there. Should it bother you, don't use it. In some cases, it is a limitation of the machine that runs the credit card. It's a tad anal to say that it bothers you and make a scene out of it. Hopefully you do this with customers around so they can get a full view of your personality.
Go to Australia. No tipping there. Of course, there's no great service either. The US does have the requisite service that goes to tipping. Should the math be so hard, perhaps you should spend more time in a library than in a restaurant.
The tipping culture in the US is much the fault of your government. They charge waiters for tips based their sales. That's why tipping in the US is higher than elsewhere.
Have you talked to your physician about the possibility of an anxiety disorder? I don't see why this would cause you so much stress. I'd bring it up with your GP the next time you're in there. It sounds like some Paxil would make you enjoy dinner a lot more.
It's that way by design. If I bring in a large group and someone takes care of them all night, I want that line in the receipt. Whining about it when you can just line it through is sort of stupid. Other guests want it there. Should it bother you, don't use it. In some cases, it is a limitation of the machine that runs the credit card. It's a tad anal to say that it bothers you and make a scene out of it. Hopefully you do this with customers around so they can get a full view of your personality.
Unfortunately it's lemmings like you who have keep bad restaurants in business for too long.
And when it comes to class I always think those who have it never need to boast about it.
Dec 9, 2009, 1:48 pm
#17
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Is tipping about class or just understanding the local customs. This is a travel forum. The audience who reads this thread probably traxels more than person X on the street. We should all know that what makes travel successful is at least educating yourself on the local customs whether or not you chose to follow them. When I see a Mr . Pink, I do not assume that the person is classless, just clueless.
Dec 9, 2009, 6:10 pm
#18
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Thank God that the Grumpy General showed up!
Dec 11, 2009, 8:05 am
#20
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Are you one of the people who also hates tip jars at Starbucks? 
Seriously though, while we are talking about this subject, I present to you two situations from the same dining chain in two different areas.
Number 1, a customer took me to a Chili's in Taiwan for lunch. I ordered salmon at the time. When I cut into it, it was clearly raw. I told the waiter that it was raw and I wanted it re-cooked, new one, whatever. No apology when he took the salmon to be redone. When it was presented back to me, it was clearly the same piece of salmon (not a big deal), but no attempt at making a presentation (a big deal to me). He extended a half-... apology, didn't offer me anything for compensation, and I was forced to tip him 10% and the full price on the salmon (all waiters/waitresses receive 10%, 10% service charge on each bill).
Number 2, I was out to Chili's in Minnesota with some colleagues. I ordered a steak medium well. When I cut into it, it was bloody red. I told my waitress this and she apologized, took the steak from me to be recooked. When my new steak was presented to me, it was a completely new cut of beef. She apologized again and asked me to cut into my steak, which was correctly cooked. A few minutes later, a manager appeared with the waitress, extending another apology and asking if I would like a comped dessert.
(I don't feel like this is comparing apples and oranges, both times the food I ordered was undercooked, that's the main point)
In situation number 2, I can appreciate all the effort that the waitress and manager were extending in order to improve a poor situation. If they didn't bother making my situation any better, you can bet she wouldn't be getting even 5% out of me for a tip. In number 1, the waiter seemed to not care and it seemed like, oh I don't need to work for a tip, I'll just put my head down and not get yelled at.
Seriously though, while we are talking about this subject, I present to you two situations from the same dining chain in two different areas.
Number 1, a customer took me to a Chili's in Taiwan for lunch. I ordered salmon at the time. When I cut into it, it was clearly raw. I told the waiter that it was raw and I wanted it re-cooked, new one, whatever. No apology when he took the salmon to be redone. When it was presented back to me, it was clearly the same piece of salmon (not a big deal), but no attempt at making a presentation (a big deal to me). He extended a half-... apology, didn't offer me anything for compensation, and I was forced to tip him 10% and the full price on the salmon (all waiters/waitresses receive 10%, 10% service charge on each bill).
Number 2, I was out to Chili's in Minnesota with some colleagues. I ordered a steak medium well. When I cut into it, it was bloody red. I told my waitress this and she apologized, took the steak from me to be recooked. When my new steak was presented to me, it was a completely new cut of beef. She apologized again and asked me to cut into my steak, which was correctly cooked. A few minutes later, a manager appeared with the waitress, extending another apology and asking if I would like a comped dessert.
(I don't feel like this is comparing apples and oranges, both times the food I ordered was undercooked, that's the main point)
In situation number 2, I can appreciate all the effort that the waitress and manager were extending in order to improve a poor situation. If they didn't bother making my situation any better, you can bet she wouldn't be getting even 5% out of me for a tip. In number 1, the waiter seemed to not care and it seemed like, oh I don't need to work for a tip, I'll just put my head down and not get yelled at.
Dec 11, 2009, 8:49 am
#21
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Tipping in restaurants does not bother me. If tipping were ended, restaurants would have to pay servers more and I do not think any business out there now is looking to increase labor costs. In addition, they would try to pass this cost onto the customer and I do not think customers are looking to pay more. As a consumer, tipping is a cost within my control and I have no problems with it.
What is beginning to bother me are the 'tip jars' springing up at Starbucks and everywhere else. It is as if these companies are trying to shift part of their labor costs from them to us: little doubt in my mind they pay their help less and tell them they will make it up in tips.
A previous post mentioned Starbucks having a no tip police. Maybe a Starbucks manager may allow this to go on, but I wonder what happens when an Area or District Manager walks in the door. Somehow, it must be unofficially allowed.
What is beginning to bother me are the 'tip jars' springing up at Starbucks and everywhere else. It is as if these companies are trying to shift part of their labor costs from them to us: little doubt in my mind they pay their help less and tell them they will make it up in tips.
A previous post mentioned Starbucks having a no tip police. Maybe a Starbucks manager may allow this to go on, but I wonder what happens when an Area or District Manager walks in the door. Somehow, it must be unofficially allowed.
Dec 11, 2009, 8:50 am
#22
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 866
Are you one of the people who also hates tip jars at Starbucks?
Seriously though, while we are talking about this subject, I present to you two situations from the same dining chain in two different areas.
Number 1, a customer took me to a Chili's in Taiwan for lunch. I ordered salmon at the time. When I cut into it, it was clearly raw. I told the waiter that it was raw and I wanted it re-cooked, new one, whatever. No apology when he took the salmon to be redone. When it was presented back to me, it was clearly the same piece of salmon (not a big deal), but no attempt at making a presentation (a big deal to me). He extended a half-... apology, didn't offer me anything for compensation, and I was forced to tip him 10% and the full price on the salmon (all waiters/waitresses receive 10%, 10% service charge on each bill).
Number 2, I was out to Chili's in Minnesota with some colleagues. I ordered a steak medium well. When I cut into it, it was bloody red. I told my waitress this and she apologized, took the steak from me to be recooked. When my new steak was presented to me, it was a completely new cut of beef. She apologized again and asked me to cut into my steak, which was correctly cooked. A few minutes later, a manager appeared with the waitress, extending another apology and asking if I would like a comped dessert.
(I don't feel like this is comparing apples and oranges, both times the food I ordered was undercooked, that's the main point)
In situation number 2, I can appreciate all the effort that the waitress and manager were extending in order to improve a poor situation. If they didn't bother making my situation any better, you can bet she wouldn't be getting even 5% out of me for a tip. In number 1, the waiter seemed to not care and it seemed like, oh I don't need to work for a tip, I'll just put my head down and not get yelled at.
Seriously though, while we are talking about this subject, I present to you two situations from the same dining chain in two different areas.
Number 1, a customer took me to a Chili's in Taiwan for lunch. I ordered salmon at the time. When I cut into it, it was clearly raw. I told the waiter that it was raw and I wanted it re-cooked, new one, whatever. No apology when he took the salmon to be redone. When it was presented back to me, it was clearly the same piece of salmon (not a big deal), but no attempt at making a presentation (a big deal to me). He extended a half-... apology, didn't offer me anything for compensation, and I was forced to tip him 10% and the full price on the salmon (all waiters/waitresses receive 10%, 10% service charge on each bill).
Number 2, I was out to Chili's in Minnesota with some colleagues. I ordered a steak medium well. When I cut into it, it was bloody red. I told my waitress this and she apologized, took the steak from me to be recooked. When my new steak was presented to me, it was a completely new cut of beef. She apologized again and asked me to cut into my steak, which was correctly cooked. A few minutes later, a manager appeared with the waitress, extending another apology and asking if I would like a comped dessert.
(I don't feel like this is comparing apples and oranges, both times the food I ordered was undercooked, that's the main point)
In situation number 2, I can appreciate all the effort that the waitress and manager were extending in order to improve a poor situation. If they didn't bother making my situation any better, you can bet she wouldn't be getting even 5% out of me for a tip. In number 1, the waiter seemed to not care and it seemed like, oh I don't need to work for a tip, I'll just put my head down and not get yelled at.
So I don't think your Chilli's experience is anything out of the ordinary or anything to be surprised about.
Oh, BTW - yes, I do routinely ignore the tip jars at Starbucks on the rare occasions that I step in there. Their coffee is overpriced (and overrated) and I feel no obligation to step into the shoes of the barista's employer to ensure that they are compensated adequately.
Dec 11, 2009, 8:52 am
#23
Join Date: Jan 2003
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Tipping should be a reward for GOOD service and not simply perfunctory. If you get rid of tipping then service will deteriorate.
I can see that this is much more of a problem in the UK than the US where service is normally excellent.
I still think there is a residual class stigma about people " serving " in Britain and even in top-flight restaurants service can be quite appalling. The problem is there is also still a reluctance among people to complain.
If I receive bad service in a restaurant I will insist the manager remove the service charge from the bill - likewise I will always cause a scene if a tipping line is left blank on a bill in addition to the service charge already added.
My family used to get embarrassed by it - now they make sure they have a full drink at the end of a bad meal so they can sit back and enjoy the fun.
I can see that this is much more of a problem in the UK than the US where service is normally excellent.
I still think there is a residual class stigma about people " serving " in Britain and even in top-flight restaurants service can be quite appalling. The problem is there is also still a reluctance among people to complain.
If I receive bad service in a restaurant I will insist the manager remove the service charge from the bill - likewise I will always cause a scene if a tipping line is left blank on a bill in addition to the service charge already added.
My family used to get embarrassed by it - now they make sure they have a full drink at the end of a bad meal so they can sit back and enjoy the fun.
Dec 11, 2009, 9:13 am
#24
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Bad example, IMO. As a non-Chinese and non-American international traveller, I (like any seasoned traveller should) know that service is not the strong point in China (mainland, island, whatever), whereas customer service is very strong in the USA. A simple trip to a US supermarket (compared to almost any other supermarket anywhere else, save, perhaps Japan) is ample evidence of how much friendlier the consumer experience in the US is.
So I don't think your Chilli's experience is anything out of the ordinary or anything to be surprised about.
Oh, BTW - yes, I do routinely ignore the tip jars at Starbucks on the rare occasions that I step in there. Their coffee is overpriced (and overrated) and I feel no obligation to step into the shoes of the barista's employer to ensure that they are compensated adequately.
So I don't think your Chilli's experience is anything out of the ordinary or anything to be surprised about.
Oh, BTW - yes, I do routinely ignore the tip jars at Starbucks on the rare occasions that I step in there. Their coffee is overpriced (and overrated) and I feel no obligation to step into the shoes of the barista's employer to ensure that they are compensated adequately.
The point I was getting across at is the service charge in most Asian countries is not a service charge, it is a FORCED tip. If tipping drives you crazy here in the United States, it drives me almost batty in Asia.
Dec 11, 2009, 10:18 am
#25
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Posts: 5,159
They provide much better service that the British.
And the Australians who took over from them behind the bar of
every pub in London.
Until the East Europeans arrived.
Better looking as well.
Dec 11, 2009, 1:37 pm
#26
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Snooky
Posts: 2,508
In the old days I bartended in some high end high volume restaurants, so I'm speaking from experience. Restaurants in trying to lower labor costs have moved tipping to lots of jobs that never got them in the past. In a big restaurant the waiter has to tip the: bartender, busboy, food runner, expediter, sommelier, and now worse of all - the host - an obvious conflict of interest. Next, they'll probably make them tip the managers. Waiters in some stores are shelling out 60% of their swag. Being a waiter is an awful job IMO. Everybody is yelling at you (cooks, bartenders, customers, and managers) and you get blamed when everybody else screws up. Worse of all - you have to bend over backwards to placate complete ***holes. It's right near the top in high stress jobs. As long as they're trying, I'll tip them well. Bad service - 15% and I'll tell them they should do something else for a living. wj
Dec 11, 2009, 4:06 pm
#27
Join Date: Feb 2007
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To be perfectly honest I reject the notion that service in the US is better than many other places (namely Europe and Australia). While I appreciate US customer service as going above and beyond what should be expected, the service in restaurants is often overbearing and too much. I don't want to know the waiter's life story, I don't want to be asked is everything is okay every five minutes etc. I want you to tell me the specials, get my order right and top up my glass (if it is a higher end restaurant). That is sufficient and this style of minimal service is what I expect in a restaurant in Australia. If the above type of service can't be met then I will be happy to take my business elsewhere. It is up to the restaurant to get their staff to do their job, it shouldn't be the customer's role.
Dec 11, 2009, 4:31 pm
#28
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To be perfectly honest I reject the notion that service in the US is better than many other places (namely Europe and Australia). While I appreciate US customer service as going above and beyond what should be expected, the service in restaurants is often overbearing and too much. I don't want to know the waiter's life story, I don't want to be asked is everything is okay every five minutes etc. I want you to tell me the specials, get my order right and top up my glass (if it is a higher end restaurant). That is sufficient and this style of minimal service is what I expect in a restaurant in Australia. If the above type of service can't be met then I will be happy to take my business elsewhere. It is up to the restaurant to get their staff to do their job, it shouldn't be the customer's role.
It is my wine because I bought it and it is my glass . I want to top it up when I'm ready.
If some waiter comes up and tries to top up my glass I politely ask them not to do it.
If they try to do it again I fix them them with an icy glare and say " Please leave my wine alone. "
If they persist in doing it again I call the manager over and inform them that I have a pump-action shotgun in my car and I will go and fetch it if anyone else touches my wine.
They've had two polite requests - how many more do they need ?
As ever, eating out is about establishing parameters - you are the customer, you are paying their wages.
End of story.
Dec 12, 2009, 1:30 am
#29
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,716
Thank God that the Grumpy General showed up!
Should you just want to make a post in a thread that is a personal insult to me, then feel free to use the Private Message part of the forum as per the terms of the website. I'd be happy to address your whining there.
To be perfectly honest I reject the notion that service in the US is better than many other places (namely Europe and Australia).
I agree with everything you say except this.
It is my wine because I bought it and it is my glass . I want to top it up when I'm ready.
If some waiter comes up and tries to top up my glass I politely ask them not to do it.
If they try to do it again I fix them them with an icy glare and say " Please leave my wine alone. "
If they persist in doing it again I call the manager over and inform them that I have a pump-action shotgun in my car and I will go and fetch it if anyone else touches my wine.
They've had two polite requests - how many more do they need ?
As ever, eating out is about establishing parameters - you are the customer, you are paying their wages.
End of story.
It is my wine because I bought it and it is my glass . I want to top it up when I'm ready.
If some waiter comes up and tries to top up my glass I politely ask them not to do it.
If they try to do it again I fix them them with an icy glare and say " Please leave my wine alone. "
If they persist in doing it again I call the manager over and inform them that I have a pump-action shotgun in my car and I will go and fetch it if anyone else touches my wine.
They've had two polite requests - how many more do they need ?
As ever, eating out is about establishing parameters - you are the customer, you are paying their wages.
End of story.
and not paragraphs?
It's hard to read and
paragraphs look better and are much easier to read.
In terms of your wine, it's an expectation level of service in places that serve wine and what you're asking is akin to you telling the restaurant to let you pick the food up in the kitchen. You're making an unusual request. I served 10's of thousands of people in the business when I worked in it. I don't recall EVER hearing of anyone not wanting me to top up wine. There were people who were done, but none who I ever ran into who acted like you.
Most wait staff are perfectly willing to go along with what a customer asks, but they're trained to top the wine. They always have done so and it's likely just instinct. It very well could be the wait staff don't like you and are enjoying watching you become ever more frustrated. Losing out a few tips sometimes is worth it.
Grumpy is the right word. There's a lot of issues pent up there. Maybe a dose of that Paxil he recommends might do some good.
Last edited by thegeneral; Dec 12, 2009 at 1:39 am
Dec 12, 2009, 4:11 am
#30
Join Date: Sep 1999
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You'll get respect when you give it general. Funny how you get all bent out of shape when someone treats you the way you have treated others...but in your world, you're always right and if there is a victim it is you.