I hate tipping, how can we end it?
Jan 20, 2010, 8:13 am
#76
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 698
The fact that servers depend on tips to make a living wage is a reason to end tipping, not continue it. Surely this should be obvious. If tipping stopped, whether by law or custom, wages would rise (basic law of economics here); the difference would be that the wages would not as at present be partially invisible. Visible wages are more efficient in all kinds of ways. And it doesn't seem that serving people are noticeably less well paid overall in countries where tipping is rare or unknown than they are in countries where it['s common.
Jan 20, 2010, 8:32 am
#77
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Austin TX.
Programs: AA GLD (1MM), Hyatt PLT, Hilton Gold, IHG Platinum
Posts: 783
I just don't like tipping based on the value of a meal. So I decide to have a 16oz steak instead of as 12oz and the waiter gets a bigger tip. What's that about???
Jan 20, 2010, 9:14 am
#78
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 698
I just don't like tipping based on the value of a meal. So I decide to have a 16oz steak instead of as 12oz and the waiter gets a bigger tip. What's that about???
Jan 20, 2010, 9:19 am
#79
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Varies
Programs: Mariott Plat, *wood Plat, Hyatt Diamond, United 1K
Posts: 280
I think my pet peeve has to be mandatory tipping.
I have consistently gotten horrible service when out in groups especially since restaurants will now charge 18% or 20% for mandatory gratuity, for groups larger than 6. The waiters won't really bother to come by, refill water, etc since they know they are getting more than normal anyway, so there is no incentive. Then it becomes a hidden surcharge on your food.
Some restaurants have started including mandatory gratuity, and then having the gall to ask for additional gratuity above the 20% they've already charged. If that isn't a scheme to raise prices and make extra money (some of it, i'm sure goes towards the restaurant.
and I agree with previous post that tipping conventions should not depend on item price, whether I get the salad or Filet mignon, I should tip based on quality of service (unfortunately, i'm not sure how you would have a standard for that)
If we got rid of tips altogether, then our prices would go up and it would be WYSIWYG.
I have consistently gotten horrible service when out in groups especially since restaurants will now charge 18% or 20% for mandatory gratuity, for groups larger than 6. The waiters won't really bother to come by, refill water, etc since they know they are getting more than normal anyway, so there is no incentive. Then it becomes a hidden surcharge on your food.
Some restaurants have started including mandatory gratuity, and then having the gall to ask for additional gratuity above the 20% they've already charged. If that isn't a scheme to raise prices and make extra money (some of it, i'm sure goes towards the restaurant.
and I agree with previous post that tipping conventions should not depend on item price, whether I get the salad or Filet mignon, I should tip based on quality of service (unfortunately, i'm not sure how you would have a standard for that)
If we got rid of tips altogether, then our prices would go up and it would be WYSIWYG.
Last edited by btravel112; Jan 20, 2010 at 9:26 am Reason: Clarification on thread
Jan 20, 2010, 10:59 am
#80
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: MEL
Programs: QF, VA, VN, BA, SQ, KC - all reds and blues.
Posts: 3,205
People who assert that a tipping culture leads to better service should visit Egypt. That would soon disabuse them of that notion.
Jan 20, 2010, 1:03 pm
#81
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sarasota FL
Programs: AA Lifetime Gold
Posts: 404
As a former waitress, and probably not a good one, I really hate tipping. I don't eat out much and when I do, I generally tip at 15%. However, I am never afraid to (politely) complain about the food or the service to the management (much to my spouse's or children's dismay). This is certainly a more effective way to give "feedback" than a poor tip.
A friend who used to wait tables in a fine dining establishment is now an executive who entertains often for business. He told me that he actually tips less (15%) on big tabs and more for the small meals (20%). I can't remember his logic...but was happy to hear it. Since when does serving a steak take more expertise than serving a sandwich?
But as someone else mentioned, tipping the hairdresser really rubs me the wrong way. The salon gets top dollar for these services, and I'd be very surprised to think that she is working for less than minimum wage, like a restaurant worker. Same for the masseuse. We receive so many services that we don't tip for, however did it turn out that we have to tip these workers? Does anyone tip their physical therapist? Their trash collector? The man who mows the lawn? Please, the business sets a fair price for it's services. Why should we have to give more? And while I'm at it, do you feel obliged to tip appliance delivery men, or contractors that do work in your home? Where does it all end?
A friend who used to wait tables in a fine dining establishment is now an executive who entertains often for business. He told me that he actually tips less (15%) on big tabs and more for the small meals (20%). I can't remember his logic...but was happy to hear it. Since when does serving a steak take more expertise than serving a sandwich?
But as someone else mentioned, tipping the hairdresser really rubs me the wrong way. The salon gets top dollar for these services, and I'd be very surprised to think that she is working for less than minimum wage, like a restaurant worker. Same for the masseuse. We receive so many services that we don't tip for, however did it turn out that we have to tip these workers? Does anyone tip their physical therapist? Their trash collector? The man who mows the lawn? Please, the business sets a fair price for it's services. Why should we have to give more? And while I'm at it, do you feel obliged to tip appliance delivery men, or contractors that do work in your home? Where does it all end?
Jan 20, 2010, 1:11 pm
#82
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 527
Someone needs to start a facebook group, "1 million against tipping"
Jan 20, 2010, 1:14 pm
#83
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 971
It doesn't seem to end at all!!
The percentage we are expected to tip keeps going up (really? 20% since when, exactly, while the meal prices keep rising?!)
I pay a huge price for a clean hotel room, and someone says I should tip the maid.
I got two envelopes for X-mas tips delivered with my newspaper; two envelopes for the same guy, who delivers the two newspapers at the same time!! I pay a fee for delivery already!
I pay extra to the store to have an appliance or furniture delivered, and read later that those guys are supposed to be tipped?
I HATE the tipping society, and the increasing expectations of tips, and the confusion about it. And if you object to tipping anyone that isn't paid under the minimum wage, you called a cheapskate! ("If you can't afford to tip the maid, you can't afford a hotel room")
The percentage we are expected to tip keeps going up (really? 20% since when, exactly, while the meal prices keep rising?!)
I pay a huge price for a clean hotel room, and someone says I should tip the maid.
I got two envelopes for X-mas tips delivered with my newspaper; two envelopes for the same guy, who delivers the two newspapers at the same time!! I pay a fee for delivery already!
I pay extra to the store to have an appliance or furniture delivered, and read later that those guys are supposed to be tipped?
I HATE the tipping society, and the increasing expectations of tips, and the confusion about it. And if you object to tipping anyone that isn't paid under the minimum wage, you called a cheapskate! ("If you can't afford to tip the maid, you can't afford a hotel room")
Jan 20, 2010, 1:17 pm
#84
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 698
And don't forget to tip your server for accepting the tip.
Jan 20, 2010, 1:19 pm
#85
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 642
Don't forget the alcohol. If you go out and have a $40 bottle of wine in ontario - which likely cost less than $10 in the LCBO - you have to pay the markup, the liquor tax, the regular tax and tip!
Jan 20, 2010, 1:25 pm
#86
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 642
A friend who used to wait tables in a fine dining establishment is now an executive who entertains often for business. He told me that he actually tips less (15%) on big tabs and more for the small meals (20%). I can't remember his logic...but was happy to hear it. Since when does serving a steak take more expertise than serving a sandwich?
But as someone else mentioned, tipping the hairdresser really rubs me the wrong way. The salon gets top dollar for these services, and I'd be very surprised to think that she is working for less than minimum wage, like a restaurant worker.
But as someone else mentioned, tipping the hairdresser really rubs me the wrong way. The salon gets top dollar for these services, and I'd be very surprised to think that she is working for less than minimum wage, like a restaurant worker.
For the latter, I get my hair cut at a cheap place. I'm sure they pay the hairdressers a pittance and quite often I'm guessing I double their hourly wage with my tip - but compared to some salons that would cost me up to five times the cost I think the tip is well deserved. Additionally I think a lot of people cut hair there as a second or third job, so if they do a good job I think they deserve a boost.
Jan 20, 2010, 1:51 pm
#87
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: CLT
Posts: 7,249
Everyone, let's not forget the most important tip about tipping I learned on FT: don't tip on tax, tip on subtotal.
Servers are looked at based on sales, not sales + tax. If you are tipping on the total with tax you are actually tipping more than you though %age-wise.
Most of the POS (point of sale) software out there that prints a suggested tip at the bottom seems to factor in total after tax. My company is the largest reseller of micros registers, but I don't deal with POS stuff and the catering stuff I deal with does not allow gratuity to calculate for a customer based on taxes (for auto gratuities).
Servers are looked at based on sales, not sales + tax. If you are tipping on the total with tax you are actually tipping more than you though %age-wise.
Most of the POS (point of sale) software out there that prints a suggested tip at the bottom seems to factor in total after tax. My company is the largest reseller of micros registers, but I don't deal with POS stuff and the catering stuff I deal with does not allow gratuity to calculate for a customer based on taxes (for auto gratuities).
Jan 20, 2010, 3:10 pm
#88
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New York, NY
Programs: Mileage Plus, Skymiles, EleVAte founding member, SPG
Posts: 1,910
Why stop at abolishing tipping? While we're at it, why don't we insist that sales tax is included in the sale price? Not just in a restaurant, but everywhere.
Jan 20, 2010, 7:25 pm
#89
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,950
The same thing with airfares (advertised airfares must show inclusions of taxes and charges; none of this airfares for $1* (* excludes taxes and surcharges) B.S.)
I believe that in at least one state in Australia, if you want to, say, surcharge for Sundays and public holidays, you can't just have a clause at the bottom of the menu saying, "15% surcharge on Sundays and public holidays". Instead, you need to produce a separate menu for Sundays and public holidays which shows the extra 15% already added to the price (and just for good measure, you should probably make specific mention that the prices on the menu are inclusive of this surcharge).
Tipping on the base amount rather than the grand total makes sense, as sales taxes go straight to the government, not into any coffers of the collective working at the establishment.
What irks me is when people decide to tip a certain amount and then judging by your appearance, character, apparent sophistication or the fact that you are at a certain quality of establishment, and then decide that your tip is cheap. For example, you might be the branch manager of a bank down the road, but if you leave only a 15% tip then you're cheap. Celebrities often make the news for leaving apparently meagre tips.
Jan 20, 2010, 7:48 pm
#90
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Winnipeg
Programs: Velocity Rewards (Virgin Australia) - Gold
Posts: 101
By law that is what must happen in Australia and New Zealand.
The same thing with airfares (advertised airfares must show inclusions of taxes and charges; none of this airfares for $1* (* excludes taxes and surcharges) B.S.)
I believe that in at least one state in Australia, if you want to, say, surcharge for Sundays and public holidays, you can't just have a clause at the bottom of the menu saying, "15% surcharge on Sundays and public holidays". Instead, you need to produce a separate menu for Sundays and public holidays which shows the extra 15% already added to the price (and just for good measure, you should probably make specific mention that the prices on the menu are inclusive of this surcharge).
Tipping on the base amount rather than the grand total makes sense, as sales taxes go straight to the government, not into any coffers of the collective working at the establishment.
What irks me is when people decide to tip a certain amount and then judging by your appearance, character, apparent sophistication or the fact that you are at a certain quality of establishment, and then decide that your tip is cheap. For example, you might be the branch manager of a bank down the road, but if you leave only a 15% tip then you're cheap. Celebrities often make the news for leaving apparently meagre tips.
The same thing with airfares (advertised airfares must show inclusions of taxes and charges; none of this airfares for $1* (* excludes taxes and surcharges) B.S.)
I believe that in at least one state in Australia, if you want to, say, surcharge for Sundays and public holidays, you can't just have a clause at the bottom of the menu saying, "15% surcharge on Sundays and public holidays". Instead, you need to produce a separate menu for Sundays and public holidays which shows the extra 15% already added to the price (and just for good measure, you should probably make specific mention that the prices on the menu are inclusive of this surcharge).
Tipping on the base amount rather than the grand total makes sense, as sales taxes go straight to the government, not into any coffers of the collective working at the establishment.
What irks me is when people decide to tip a certain amount and then judging by your appearance, character, apparent sophistication or the fact that you are at a certain quality of establishment, and then decide that your tip is cheap. For example, you might be the branch manager of a bank down the road, but if you leave only a 15% tip then you're cheap. Celebrities often make the news for leaving apparently meagre tips.
Waiters are paid $16-$30 per hour, no need or expectation to tip.
But IF YOU WANT TO, YOU MAY!