The real question here is not whether or not you tip or how much, but how to get rid of this crazy system. I can’t believe any customer seriously thinks standard restaurant tipping is a good idea. I understand the why and the current expectation and when in the USA I try to confirm to this quaint custom as much as possible. Although this does give a bit of stress and the end of a meal or taxi journey or whatever and means that trips cost me more as I can’t expense tips (even though they are really required as part of the price).

I would have though the whole post-service tip system was the very antithesis of being a flyertalker. Tipping someone who gives you regular service from or at the start of a longer-term service relationship does fit with the FT ethos– here it is really a bribe to get additional things for a smaller consideration that the service is worth or or cheating the system slightly to maximize your experience. But paying more than you need to after you have received the service (so it won’t make a difference to the service you got), that’s like doing a price comparison and picking a more expensive rate or fare than you need to. Why would you want to pay more than you can get away with?

It could be argued that the whole culture of tipping improves service, rewarding good service and developing an expectation of tipping – however, this relies on others tipping well in general, so that you get a better experience, which you then validate with a tip. Taking the frequent flying analogy further, this is the same as relying on “kettles”, the bulk of the customer base, to pay more to effectively subsidize your travels. So the equilvalent to enjoying FFP perks for the minimum spend and getting the most use out of miles or $$ for tickets is not tipping irregular service staff and letting the average customer pay tips normally so you still receive good service. Just like airline staff don’t know you got super double gold titanium status from some cheap MRs or are flying international F because you filled out a credit card application, servers will not know you ain’t going to give them any extra money until long after you’ve had a satisfying meal.

Of course, it could be for some people tipping is really a form of showing off, like displaying your status on your luggage tags or hat, or just telling everyone in hearing how shiny for FFP card is and important you are – then by all means pay the extra for that moment of self-importance and smugness when you can lord it over your temporary servant, displaying how rich and generous you are.

Tipping sucks, doesn’t make any business sense to the customer, causes unnecessary stress and confusion (particularly to non-natives who are also left open to deliberate bullying/exploitation), allows some people and businesses to earn/make money without making a fair tax contribution on their income, and really doesn’t even promote good service as people reward mediocrity anyway. By all means, I think a system where you could recognize exceptional standards is good, but if it really is a required part of transaction, then include it in the price. I get that people are vocal about others not following the system in their country and sure - that is the system so people should follow. But defending this as a good system makes no sense at all.

It seems natural once you get to know it, but at first, keeping hold of the knife with your right hand and never setting it down actually kind of looks slightly uncouth, since it looks like you are so hungry you can't even take a break to put your utensils down. Someone who never sets his or her utensils down in the U.S. is regarded as an aggressive eater.

Maybe it's just evocative of this kind of image signifying a hungry person:

You still put the cutlery down on the edges of the plate between each mouthfull, but you pick both the knife and the fork up together for the next bite.

Are you kidding me? I could just as easily say why can't Japan be more like the US? Every culture has its idosyncracies. I was shocked when I saw people pushing and shoving each other getting on and off the trains and subway cars in Tokyo.

I was shocked when people on the elevator practically pushed me aside to get off ahead of me. In the US, that kind of behavior would be considered extremely rude. In the US most people let others get off first.

Why can't Japan be more like the US?

6'5" asian 260 lbs, I would be at home pushing and shoving.. thanks for the heads up

Generally I tip the same for buffets.. because the servers clear the plates, bowls and drinks so many times, I feel bad not tipping the going rate.

But the 'going rate' for buffets in North America isn't 15%, based on the responses on this thread. And it certainly isn't that in most of the rest of the world, which is why I asked what is the norm in North America.

I'm not going to quibble over 0,50 cents, which is the difference between 10/15/20 percent in my example, but it also wasn't a buffet. Next time I eat there I'll leave a dollar plus round up to the next dollar, which again on a $10 total is marginal.

I don't eat at buffets except for the ones in hotel restaurants (which tend to be relatively simple bread/cereal/yoghurt/jams/fruit and possibly eggs). Nor do I eat at budget, cheap food places such as Golden Corral, or the places where people overindulge on prime rib and lobster tails such as found on the giant brunch or dinner buffets in North America.

At the breakfast buffets where I do eat outside North America, I just round up to the nearest amount.

Thanks to those of you who replied re tipping at buffets in North America.

Which is why I commented that I would feel bad not tipping the going rate.. which is obviously not the norm.

I think rounding up to the nearest dollar doesn't seem right.. but it is outside of NA isn't it?

Don't hog up the elevator door and consider letting people getting off first before getting in?

I'd push and shove aside anyone if they're standing in front of the elevator too in the US or in Japan if they think they're entitled to get on without letting those trying to get off first. Not much different than honking the horn and yelling expletives when another car thinks they can just cut ahead of those in line at the cheapest gas station. "Get you're ****ing ... back in line like everyone else, a lot more people were here first you ****head."

Patience..... !

USA will be like Japan or many other countries.

US is barely a 350 year old country, rest of the countries are thousands of years old.

Don't you see a difference in US in the last 40-50 years ?

I don' t think we will have any choice !!!!!

Why would I be talking about dollars if I were a German dining in a restaurant in France? I did say that the restaurant was in America (and that it was a chain in Hawaii as well as a few on the mainland)

I'm not following the norm by not tipping 'the going rate'? But the 'going rate' ISN'T 15-20% outside the US. And the 'going rate' for buffets/limited service within the US also ISN'T 15-20%.

Question: Does anyone else think that I was wrong and tipped too low in my example? It was a kaiten sushi restaurant (I already listed the 'service' but will list it again: seat oneself at an open table, the 'server' brings tea/water, one selects items from the conveyor belt, and IF one wishes something specific asks the server. Payment is at the front counter after the 'server' tallies the amount of empty plates)

Total was about $8.60 USD. Did I undertip by paying $10.00? That is by my calculation 16.3%, more than what the 'going rate' appears to be for buffets in America (Sylvia, feel free to tell us again! ) I did what I stated earlier; rounded up to the next dollar, and added $1.

If anything, I learned from this thread that I may have been 'wrong' to tip as much as I did, but since the total bill was so low, I'm not overly worried about it.

Besides the issue of tipping for 'self service' or 'take out', there is also the issue of tipping on very low totals ie the percentage may be fair, but not the amount.

Tipping on take-out food is nonstandard. Delivery however warrants a gratuity (someone brings the food to your location). However, I noticed that the NY Times 'ethics' columnist yesterday suggested small tips on take-out food. Contrary to the NYT, I believe we are headed away from tipping in the US. The demise of cash and the rise of self-service are long-term trends that lead away from tipping.

The old US standards, which many of us learned from our parents, at least pre-1990 were: $1 per drink from a bartender; $1 per suitcase delivered by a porter; and 15% for a waiter serving you at a table in a restaurant. That's about it. Any other tipping is more related to rounding up to avoid change.

The one place I do tip in France for 'takeaway' is my motosushi delivery. Usually the total comes to about €18,90 so then I give a €20 if it's coming by motorcycle. If I go to pick it up in the local shop, I don't tip. Both major motosushi chains have online ordering, and one can repeat a previous order as well as pay online, so there is little human interaction other than the making of the food.

Because I tend to pay in cash, I'll round up. Still, the motorcycle riders generally scramble to offer me change, so I suspect that isn't the norm either.

I don't know that why we have to pay those, who already earning their wages. Why we have to pay extra for what we have already paid? The staff is rendering its services on salary/wages basis which are paid through customers payments. Its the owner's job to pay his staff. If anyone has sufficient he should donate it to the charitable institutions, homeless of victimized people, not to those who are already getting paid by the owners.

Interesting article on the fight between the servers and the owners

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...housetips.html