New upgrade rules effective Jan 1, 2004... Happy Holidays from DL!
Dec 18, 2003, 5:19 am
#91
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: AUS DL PM MM, HH LTD
Posts: 1,853
Mikey, I shouldn't have singled you out.
I did the math. If I switch my October biz award MCO-ATH to M with PMU, I will remake PM (with carryover and AMEX). I might have to book I ticket so I will hold off booking.
It would be nice if someone could keep statistics for us on upgrade success at window opening, waitlist clearing, standby. For PM, GM, and FO and the various fare classes. Would be nice if this was by city pairs. With such a database, we can determine, if T, K, or M fares are required to "guarantee" an upgrade, etc.
Any volunteers?
Edited to add: Although 750 mile rule helps me, change in upgrades will make it worse. I am confident ATL-DCA and DCA-ATL will be waitlisted at 100 hours. As a PM, I never clear at airport now, it will be even worse with PMs not having any restriction on number along with GM and FO Y and B. I was actually going to go for the 5K extra miles once I had a reserve of upgrades built up.
marc
PS I'm waiting for my first Thursday evening DCA-ATL flight with over 70 on upgrade list!
[This message has been edited by Marq (edited Dec 18, 2003).]
I did the math. If I switch my October biz award MCO-ATH to M with PMU, I will remake PM (with carryover and AMEX). I might have to book I ticket so I will hold off booking.
It would be nice if someone could keep statistics for us on upgrade success at window opening, waitlist clearing, standby. For PM, GM, and FO and the various fare classes. Would be nice if this was by city pairs. With such a database, we can determine, if T, K, or M fares are required to "guarantee" an upgrade, etc.
Any volunteers?
Edited to add: Although 750 mile rule helps me, change in upgrades will make it worse. I am confident ATL-DCA and DCA-ATL will be waitlisted at 100 hours. As a PM, I never clear at airport now, it will be even worse with PMs not having any restriction on number along with GM and FO Y and B. I was actually going to go for the 5K extra miles once I had a reserve of upgrades built up.
marc
PS I'm waiting for my first Thursday evening DCA-ATL flight with over 70 on upgrade list!
[This message has been edited by Marq (edited Dec 18, 2003).]
Dec 18, 2003, 5:21 am
#92
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DL: PM/2M; UA: 1K; AA: Plat/2MM; SQ: PPS; US: Plat; Starwood: Plat; Hilton: Diam Hyatt: Diam; Loews Plat; Avis: Chair.
Posts: 1,681
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by NoStressHere:
You have to wonder what kinds of discussion took place on Virgina Ave that caused this DRASTIC change to take place. Wow..</font>
You have to wonder what kinds of discussion took place on Virgina Ave that caused this DRASTIC change to take place. Wow..</font>
Nevertheless, I like it, except for when I will be booking last minute!
Dec 18, 2003, 5:46 am
#93
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2000
Programs: DL FO, Marriott Gold, SPG Gold
Posts: 12,003
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by LAOCA:
This was a response to the NW/CO alliance, not SSM. If SSM was a factor at all there would have been a modification to MQM accruals.
Nevertheless, I like it, except for when I will be booking last minute!</font>
This was a response to the NW/CO alliance, not SSM. If SSM was a factor at all there would have been a modification to MQM accruals.
Nevertheless, I like it, except for when I will be booking last minute!</font>
DL still has to budge on the 1/2 MQM issue to make it a win-win for everyone. Right now Skymiles is on par with CO (with the exception of needing 75k to be top tier on CO instead of 100k on DL). AA, NW & UA are still superior plans. IMHO, Lex & GG have still made the right decision at this point. If DL ends their 1/2 MQM system and gives us one elite mile for every mile flown, I would say that Skymiles is truly a winner.
Dec 18, 2003, 6:30 am
#94
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Flagler County, FL
Programs: Delta Skymiles, Marriott Bonvoy
Posts: 114
And while I was reading this thread, what appears in my inbox, but an email from Patrice with the official news. I presume this just went out to everyone this morning. I still wonder how this will play out regarding the standby list at the gate though.
Dec 18, 2003, 6:34 am
#95
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Atlanta, GA
Programs: DL Gold
Posts: 278
If you still need a calculator and two pages of partner codes and multipliers to figure out your elite miles, the program is not fixed.
Dec 18, 2003, 6:38 am
#96
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: MHT, DL DM & now KM!/ formerNW Plat /HH Diamond/SPG plat
Posts: 830
Well after sleeping on this last night, I'm still undecided. It's a shame DL waited so long that many, such as me, left in the last quarter. I was "blissfully ingnorant" of what else flew through the skies until Oct when NW comped me Gold.
I'm 100% for upgrades on the 38,000 miles I flew with NW this quarter. I've now seen the World Clubs, I've now eaten "real" hot meals in First with dessert that doesn't come in a cellophane pouch, I've seen a first class section on an RJ, I've now seen full elite mileage on the lowest class fares. And quite frankly now that I've seen all this, I'm not so sure I'm going back to DL. Fortunately I made my PM with them before leaving so I have a bit of time to decide, but all those RJ's, pink tags, and cold roast beef in a stale tortilla "dinners" are also twirling in my mind. Other than the 6 international upgrades, what other reason do I have for returning???
I'm 100% for upgrades on the 38,000 miles I flew with NW this quarter. I've now seen the World Clubs, I've now eaten "real" hot meals in First with dessert that doesn't come in a cellophane pouch, I've seen a first class section on an RJ, I've now seen full elite mileage on the lowest class fares. And quite frankly now that I've seen all this, I'm not so sure I'm going back to DL. Fortunately I made my PM with them before leaving so I have a bit of time to decide, but all those RJ's, pink tags, and cold roast beef in a stale tortilla "dinners" are also twirling in my mind. Other than the 6 international upgrades, what other reason do I have for returning???
Dec 18, 2003, 6:55 am
#97
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Kfar Saba, Israel
Posts: 4,172
In the Email this morning:
Happy Holidays! Enjoy Unlimited Upgrades in 2004.
Hello Mr. AAA,
The new year will bring richer rewards and added convenience for our Medallion® members, as Delta rolls out an expanded, yet simpler upgrade system. The changes are part of our overall effort to make the SkyMiles® program more relevant and flexible for our highest valued customers.
Complimentary Upgrades for all Medallions
Medallion members will receive unlimited, complimentary Upgrades*, subject to availability, when ticketed in most published fare classes including Y, B, M, H, Q, K, L, U, or T.
This change will enable you to upgrade whenever premium seats are available, eliminating the need to keep a revolving balance of points for this purpose. Upgrades will be valid on most Delta flights within or between the United States (excluding Hawaii) and Bermuda, Canada, the Caribbean, and Mexico, and confirmed based on your Medallion status and class of service. But wait...it gets better.
Automated Upgrade Processing
Not only will you have access to an unlimited supply of Upgrades, but also you will find them easier to use. A new automated Upgrade processing system will be implemented January 1, 2004, which will eliminate the need for additional telephone calls to confirm Upgrades.
You may request an Upgrade at the time of booking on delta.com or with a Delta Reservations Sales agent. When your applicable Upgrade confirmation window opens, the Upgrade will be processed automatically, if available, and noted in your itinerary. Members may verify the status of an Upgrade request on delta.com.
Travel Companion Upgrades
Also effective January 1, you and a non-Medallion travel companion may enjoy the comfort of our First Class or Business Class cabin. Simply use your status as a Medallion member to request a companion Upgrade from select fares through a Delta Reservations Sales agent, and the Upgrade will be processed, if available, within 12 hours of your scheduled departure time. We hope this will be a holiday gift that you and your friends and family will enjoy throughout the new year.
Please note that since Medallion members will receive unlimited Upgrades in 2004, we will no longer implement the previously announced option to earn upgrades vs. bonus miles. For more details on the Medallion Upgrade program or for a complete overview of all Medallion program benefits and changes, please visit delta.com/skymileschanges.
Happy holidays! And as always, we hope to see you onboard soon.
Sincerely,
Patrice G. Miles
Vice President, Consumer Marketing
Happy Holidays! Enjoy Unlimited Upgrades in 2004.
Hello Mr. AAA,
The new year will bring richer rewards and added convenience for our Medallion® members, as Delta rolls out an expanded, yet simpler upgrade system. The changes are part of our overall effort to make the SkyMiles® program more relevant and flexible for our highest valued customers.
Complimentary Upgrades for all Medallions
Medallion members will receive unlimited, complimentary Upgrades*, subject to availability, when ticketed in most published fare classes including Y, B, M, H, Q, K, L, U, or T.
This change will enable you to upgrade whenever premium seats are available, eliminating the need to keep a revolving balance of points for this purpose. Upgrades will be valid on most Delta flights within or between the United States (excluding Hawaii) and Bermuda, Canada, the Caribbean, and Mexico, and confirmed based on your Medallion status and class of service. But wait...it gets better.
Automated Upgrade Processing
Not only will you have access to an unlimited supply of Upgrades, but also you will find them easier to use. A new automated Upgrade processing system will be implemented January 1, 2004, which will eliminate the need for additional telephone calls to confirm Upgrades.
You may request an Upgrade at the time of booking on delta.com or with a Delta Reservations Sales agent. When your applicable Upgrade confirmation window opens, the Upgrade will be processed automatically, if available, and noted in your itinerary. Members may verify the status of an Upgrade request on delta.com.
Travel Companion Upgrades
Also effective January 1, you and a non-Medallion travel companion may enjoy the comfort of our First Class or Business Class cabin. Simply use your status as a Medallion member to request a companion Upgrade from select fares through a Delta Reservations Sales agent, and the Upgrade will be processed, if available, within 12 hours of your scheduled departure time. We hope this will be a holiday gift that you and your friends and family will enjoy throughout the new year.
Please note that since Medallion members will receive unlimited Upgrades in 2004, we will no longer implement the previously announced option to earn upgrades vs. bonus miles. For more details on the Medallion Upgrade program or for a complete overview of all Medallion program benefits and changes, please visit delta.com/skymileschanges.
Happy holidays! And as always, we hope to see you onboard soon.
Sincerely,
Patrice G. Miles
Vice President, Consumer Marketing
Dec 18, 2003, 7:02 am
#98
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Hotlanta, GA; Starwood Platinum; Delta Platinum Medallion
Posts: 554
This is definitely an early Christmas present. I was shocked, make that SHOCKED, to see the email this morning.
I was actually checking the email over trying to determine if it was a hoax.
It's not April 1, is it?
I was actually checking the email over trying to determine if it was a hoax.
It's not April 1, is it?
Dec 18, 2003, 7:05 am
#99
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Moreland Hills (CLE)
Programs: Over-entitled UA 1.3MM Gold, AA Gold, Hilton Diamond, Marriott L-T Plat, Hertz PC
Posts: 5,521
WOW!!!!!!!!
Congrats to all FTers and SaveSkyMiles members who worked so hard.
I guess we can put away the rat buttons.
Congrats to all FTers and SaveSkyMiles members who worked so hard.
I guess we can put away the rat buttons.
Dec 18, 2003, 7:17 am
#100
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: ATL - DL GM (Moving on Down)
Posts: 418
Be Careful for what you ask for!
If you are a Platinum who flies the typical business routes on lower fares... You may not be upgrading more than 20% of your flights. With all the new competition from higher paying GM & FO flyers, the PM upgrade at 100 hours may not be assured.
Certainly, if you have the habit of using LUT fares during peak flights, your upgrade chances will be zero -- even as a Platinum.
I am confident that a Monday morning or Thurs/Fri afternoon flight (too or from Atlanta to Business Centers) will offer no opportunities for LUT flyers. and possibly little opportunity for mid fare Platinum flyers.
A key question will be: How will they distribute the remaining held seats or no-shows at the gate? If it is by "status".. then a Platinum may have reasonable chances of snaring extra seats at the gate. If it s by "fare paid".. then "Status"... then odds go way down.
I usually buy my most expensive fares within a 100 hour window. I'd hate to pay a fortune, and as a PM...not get an upgrade. I assume there will be some upgrade inventory held back to accomodate those situations.
This system looks great. Delta did what most folks have asked for. But the bottom line will be... Rather than using expensive and rationed MSUs to limit upgrades, Delta will be using higher paying passengers from all levels to ration upgrade opportuntities for PMs.
Your upgrade percentages on peak flights may be significantly mitigated. If you fly a lot on non-peak flights... then I think that this announcement will be good for everybody -- including Delta.
And, of course, this does nothing to change the physical rationing of First Class seats by expanded RJ & Shuttle Class Aircraft, and LCC flying.
I give Delta a lot of credit for giving the consumers a liberal policy for upgrades -- which is what this board has asked for... but you PM flyers out there... before you pop your Bubbly Corks... give it a little thought. This may not be the result you really were looking for.
Under their previously bad system... I figured that Delta would probably be giving a lot of Operational Upgrades since there would not be enough flyers with enough MSUs. Those Op ups would probably be given to Platinum flyers. Now.. the number of domestic Op ups will go to near zero.
If you are a Platinum who flies the typical business routes on lower fares... You may not be upgrading more than 20% of your flights. With all the new competition from higher paying GM & FO flyers, the PM upgrade at 100 hours may not be assured.
Certainly, if you have the habit of using LUT fares during peak flights, your upgrade chances will be zero -- even as a Platinum.
I am confident that a Monday morning or Thurs/Fri afternoon flight (too or from Atlanta to Business Centers) will offer no opportunities for LUT flyers. and possibly little opportunity for mid fare Platinum flyers.
A key question will be: How will they distribute the remaining held seats or no-shows at the gate? If it is by "status".. then a Platinum may have reasonable chances of snaring extra seats at the gate. If it s by "fare paid".. then "Status"... then odds go way down.
I usually buy my most expensive fares within a 100 hour window. I'd hate to pay a fortune, and as a PM...not get an upgrade. I assume there will be some upgrade inventory held back to accomodate those situations.
This system looks great. Delta did what most folks have asked for. But the bottom line will be... Rather than using expensive and rationed MSUs to limit upgrades, Delta will be using higher paying passengers from all levels to ration upgrade opportuntities for PMs.
Your upgrade percentages on peak flights may be significantly mitigated. If you fly a lot on non-peak flights... then I think that this announcement will be good for everybody -- including Delta.
And, of course, this does nothing to change the physical rationing of First Class seats by expanded RJ & Shuttle Class Aircraft, and LCC flying.
I give Delta a lot of credit for giving the consumers a liberal policy for upgrades -- which is what this board has asked for... but you PM flyers out there... before you pop your Bubbly Corks... give it a little thought. This may not be the result you really were looking for.
Under their previously bad system... I figured that Delta would probably be giving a lot of Operational Upgrades since there would not be enough flyers with enough MSUs. Those Op ups would probably be given to Platinum flyers. Now.. the number of domestic Op ups will go to near zero.
Dec 18, 2003, 7:39 am
#101
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: TPA
Programs: Hilton Gold, DL DIrt Medallion
Posts: 38,267
With NW's superior service and full EQM's on all fares, DL is still a no-go for me. Besides, connectin gin DTW and MSP to get anywhere really tacks on the extra miles! But congrats to those who have decided to stay with DL, it's definitely an improvement for you!
Dec 18, 2003, 7:57 am
#102
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Sunny Charleston, SC
Programs: DL: Diamond
Posts: 215
Dec 18, 2003, 8:02 am
#103
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: SLC/HEL/Anywhere with a Beach
Programs: Marriott Ambassador; AA EXP 3MM; AS MVP, Hilton Gold, CH-47/UH-60/C-23/C-130 VET
Posts: 5,234
Congratulations to SSM. This is a great improvement and helps keep competition for quality (as opposed to just price) alive.
Unfortunately for Delta, I switched my N-S routes to AirTran and don't see this as worth changing back. Again, congratulations for those of you who stuck it out and worked hard!
Unfortunately for Delta, I switched my N-S routes to AirTran and don't see this as worth changing back. Again, congratulations for those of you who stuck it out and worked hard!
Dec 18, 2003, 8:04 am
#104
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: SEA - DL DM/2MM, *A Gold, SPG Lifetime Plat, some other car and hotel stuff
Posts: 5,649
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by jfulcher:
This kind of sucks for me because I just bought $320 in upgrade points on Saturday. I've used 2 of them sense, my only other flight this year is on a RJ..
</font>
This kind of sucks for me because I just bought $320 in upgrade points on Saturday. I've used 2 of them sense, my only other flight this year is on a RJ..
</font>
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Delta will review account balances in January and contact those members with balances of unused purchased upgrades. [emphasis added]</font>
Dec 18, 2003, 8:20 am
#105
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: NYC
Programs: AA EXP / LT PLT / 3MM, Marriott LT Gold
Posts: 35,399
I know this has been said numerous times in this thread; but I have to say it:
GO SSM!
Any comments from avek00, B747-437B, Floris et al? Waiting for the spin!
If this is not capitulation, the moon is made of green cheese. Now I just need a letter from Patrice extending my PM status which I let lapse thanks to the earlier idiotic changes (although being GM won't be so bad with the new rules).
------------------
Vasant
[Edited for typo and clarity]
[This message has been edited by vasantn (edited Dec 18, 2003).]
GO SSM!
Any comments from avek00, B747-437B, Floris et al? Waiting for the spin!
If this is not capitulation, the moon is made of green cheese. Now I just need a letter from Patrice extending my PM status which I let lapse thanks to the earlier idiotic changes (although being GM won't be so bad with the new rules).
------------------
Vasant
[Edited for typo and clarity]
[This message has been edited by vasantn (edited Dec 18, 2003).]