We actually already had this discussion over at the NW forum as well, and you guys are missing the point of PMUs.

They are not a benefit that DL gives away that costs DL something. They are a coupon that DL gives away to sell more business seats while protecting business seat pricing.

Since the PMU is a personal benefit to flyers, DL expects that they will be used by Elites for personal travel. It's not like you're going to use your PMU to save your company some money on a business seat. So the PMU leets DL make the price of a business seat a bit less for leisure travel without having to pay fare class games to keep their business fares higher when companies are actually buying business-class seats.

M-fares are clearly set at the point where DL thinks the number of people who buy a $2500 M-fare instead of a $800 discount coach fare times $1700 best offsets the number of people who buy a $2500 M-fare instead of a $2800 discount business fare times the $300.

The ability to use PMUs on day-of-travel are not a 'new benefit', but a fix of their systems to make it more likely that travelers will gamble $1700 on the chance to use a PMU.


PMUs are all about getting DL more money in the short term on ticket sales. NW SWUs were about getting more money in the long term by engendering loyalty from their frequent customers. You can see this difference in philosophy everywhere - DL focuses on getting as much money as they can right now, while NW focused on having a long-term profitable relationship.

Says who? You keep saying all this, but you've got no information from a reliable source that says it's anything other than your personal guess.

*IF* you assume that SkyMilesInsider is using a definition of spring that is based on the time between the sun being at equinox and solstice. It could very well be that SkyMilesInsider means spring as in "when it's getting warmer". Most people consider June 21st to be well into summer, which for most people (in the US anyway) is about Memorial Day to Labor Day. And I think DL would have a pretty hard time if DM benefits didn't roll out until after Memorial Day and they attempted to argue that it was still spring.

Hell, even a gopher has a say on when spring is +/- 6 weeks.

I agree that DL is unwilling to predict the precise date of availability for some benefits. But I also strongly suspect that if there is any way DL can not give a 3rd set of Choice Benefits to DMs, they will find a way to do so.

That's not a fact, that's a GUESS.

With all due respect, you're guessing. You've decided what you want to think, and you're interpreting everything in the light that leads to the conclusion you've already made.


That would be one acceptable answer.


Frankly, I'm surprised they didn't just say "One PM benefit when you make PM. One more choice when you make DM. Two DM choices when you start the program year at DM."

That would thus make an INCENTIVE to start the program year at DM instead of a DISincentive.


OR, DL could have made DM 100k, but only provided one DM benefit with a 'bonus' benefit at 125k. Upgrade queue would probably work out better (esp. if 125k was given even higher priority), but think of all the award change fees DL would lose out on! (Solve the rollover MQM problem though.)

But DL's FF program folks don't seem to do a good job of thinking through all the behavior consequences of their program choices.

Does the answer to any of this really make a difference in how many additional flights and in what fare class you will make on Delta for the rest of this year?

If NWA was so interested in your well being and "focus on having a long-term profitable relationship", then why did NWA sell you down the river? If you don't like Delta, go somewhere else. For one, you're not adding any value to the discussion at hand. And finally the whinning about what you lost from NWA is really pathetic when it's written and read over and over again.

If the above succenctly summarizes the situation, then the 3 choices is a nice way to make up for the fact that we'll have a bit shorter DM year than usual in 2010. (Obviously nicer would be SWU's that are worth more than cheap ink.)

Yes. Not so much that I care if I get 4, 10 or 16 PMUs that I *MIGHT* be able to use 2 of *IF* I go to Hawaii, but the lack of straightforward communication in general affects whether I want to stay with this program or not, and whether I want to stay with this program or not directly affects my future spend on DL. I was firmly in the "stay" camp until June or so, but it's been rapidly downhill since. Right now I'm still burning through vouchers, I'm just about out of those.

Not that it matters really - things should be communicated clearly simply because it's the right thing to do.

Or let me sell you my unused PMUs for whatever you'd pay for them.

Are you saying that DL's program is significantly inferior to NW's program?

I have not been whining about what I lost from NW. I've been whining about the apparent lack of ability to honestly, directly, and effectively communicate exhibited by DL. NW isn't relevant. SEPARATELY, I did make note that DL and NW appear to approach their frequent flyer programs differently - one takes the money now approach, and one took the money later approach. There was no judgment on 'better' there - that was just something you inserted yourself.

I don't know what lack of straightforward communication you are referring to. I don't have any problem understanding the basics of the new program. I though atldlff summed it up pretty well. If there is a minor point to clarify later (I don't have one, but you seem to), it is not a big deal for me to wait until the new program is under way to see how things shake out.

From the sound of your posts, I thought it was a foregone conclusion that you would be finding a new Frequent Flyer home next year. If I were so unhappy with a program and a company, I would certainly have already moved all my future flights (as I did with United Airlines, US Airways, and will do next year with Thai Airways, although I was never as upset with any of those companies as you seem to be with Delta).

Again the "whining about the apparent lack of ability to honestly, directly, and effectively communicate exhibited by DL."

I think the program basics have been well communicated.

Not quite - right now, probably going to go with cheapest airfare available, depending what shakes out of UA/CO.

If you track my posts over the past 8 months, you'll see I've gone from pretty supportive of the merger to pretty not happy with the new situation. There are a pile of factors that led to that change, although the turning point was around June for me.

Note I don't *WANT* to switch - I'd far prefer DL upped their game. But if the answer really is take-it-or-leave-it, it might just have to be leave-it.

For someone who flies at Gold level, I don't know what else you could want. DL gives Golds a very generous percentage of bonus miles, free bags, plus unlimited space available upgrades. That is as good or better than any other USA airline. What do you really expect for 50K MQMs per year?

I am only Gold due to earnings split between NW and DL and the Hilton promo not crediting correctly - I'm at 74,800 on NW and 15k on DL right now. I'll easily break 100k by the end of the year and could do 125k if I kept my CC spend in the same spot and/or picked up some optional Europe travel.

I wouldn't be able to make 125k on AA/UA/CO since they don't hand out elite miles like candy, but could make 100k. And the 100k program on AA is definitely superior to DL's 125k, and I think UA's 100k is better as well.

Throw in ease of mileage redemption, the only thing DL has going for them is convenience, but even that's getting to be a tough argument when only managing 2 flights a day into my home airport and not letting me book anything with more than a 4-hour connection in MSP.


The reality of the situation is I think I'm better off just buying the cheapest ticket. I fly enough that I'd stil keep base-elite on at least two alliances for free bags along with free bags on Southwest and have access to the largest network on the planet (every airline).

^ I've always felt that adding the ability to transfer PMUs would be a significant program plus!

Also, regardless of my elite level, I respect a business that deals with me the same way I deal with my customers - in a straightforward, honest manner. For example, when assessing a fee to change awards, do not claim it's to prevent inventory abuse when the solution doesn't accomplish your goal. When you decide to stop serving hot breakfast, don't send out an email saying it's because customers told you they appreciate healthy options. And when you make and announce changes, don't bury them in the middle of emails you know most of your customers don't read.

Further, I feel better about doing business with someone when they exhibit a certain level of competence. Communicate effectively! I'm actually DEFENDING DL over in the NW forum from a bunch of NW elites irked that the carry-over EQM option in the elite extraperks program was eliminated as a result of the introduction of rollover miles, when that's actually an IMPROVEMENT. DL just did a horrible job of communicating the change, first claiming it was a technical issue that the option went away and it would be back, then fessing up later that they were just canning the option entirely. If it's not coming back, don't tell people it's coming back! Negative reaction to the lie, along with a failure to show how the change was an improvement, blinded most to the fact that instead of having to choose carryover EQM instead of something else, now they get the carryover EQM ANYWAY (and more of it) and STILL get to choose something else!


I will say that the vast majority of my issues fall into the areas of FF program (some on value, some on treatment of customers/communication) and SkyClub product degradation. There are lots of other things that are not as good as they used to be, but that's just the nature of the airline industry, and DL gets people from point A to point B just as well as any other carrier.

But, when all carriers are pretty much equally good about getting you from one place to the other safely, that means if you don't want people just flying the cheapest ticket they can find, you need to offer something that distinguishes yourself from the other guy.

Honest, effective communication with your customers is one of the things that can distinguish you from the other guy, and one of the best things about it is it's FREE! But for some reason DL insists on continuing to shoot themselves in the foot at nearly every opportunity. We get it, changes are necessary, but you can help yourself a lot by just telling it like it is the first time.