MIDWESTERNFLYER

Why?
CVG has fewer pax to AMS, than IND https://www.brookings.edu/interactiv...litan-america/

CVG is basically only O&D at this point with only 10% of traffic connecting

The TATL service it has know isn't even doing that well, why would they take away more traffic from it? (Seat Utilization average for '16 was 69%)

For the most part, if pax from IND travel anywhere to fly TATL it is ORD, not CVG.

KDCAflyer

And where did you find that number? Loads on CVG-CDG are regularly 80-90%. Winter might be an off-period, but that's the case for many international routes. The engine parts that GE sends to Airbus obviously must more than make up for any seasonal dip.

readywhenyouare

I have a feeling Delta isn't done with CVG yet. It was recently mentioned in one of their advertisements. Something they haven't done in a long time. They also recently came to terms with CVG on a long term agreement for gate use. Delta will continue to be the sole user of B gates. The airport was originally going to tear down the B concourse and consolidate everyone into an expanded A concourse. You also have the powerhouse of P&G in Cincinnati.

MIDWESTERNFLYER

https://www.transtats.bts.gov/DL_SelectFields.asp

Pharmaceuticals from Eli Lilly and Roche are currently flown throughout the week from IND-LUX/CDG/STN on FedEx and CargoLux so some of those could be shifted to a DL flight to AMS (similar to RDU).

hockeyinsider

Does PDX now have more Delta flights than CVG?

I just checked IND. Pretty impressive that you can do Boston, New York, Los Angeles, and Seattle non-stop.

KDCAflyer

That is TOTAL international loads, not just CVG-CDG. Even then, load factors mean a lot less when corporate passenger and cargo contracts are in play. Besides CDG, DL also operates YYZ and CUN. Both drag down the overall numbers, based on the loads I've seen on both routes.

CVG has lots of routes that don't consistently get close to selling out, but are still profitable thanks to a contract. CVG-XNA comes to mind, with P&G and Walmart.

hockeyinsider

There are 7 Fortune 500 companies in Indiana. For comparison, there are 13 in Massachusetts (BOS), 2 in Oregon (PDX), 12 in North Carolina (RDU), and 10 in Washington State (SEA). Delta has international flights from airports in all of those other states.

MCO Flyer

IND-MCO is daily now as well.

KDCAflyer

Last year yes. This year CVG has a slight edge so far. CVG has more routes, but sees significant weekend reductions. CVG is basically an outstation on Saturdays.

readywhenyouare

I count 38 departures out of PDX today. ATL,MSP,DTW,JFK,SLC,LAX,SEA,NRT,AMS,LHR. So no, not even close.

MIDWESTERNFLYER

No you didn't even try, if you have used excel before, you can single out a specific variable(in this case France) and find seat utilization for each month in 2016 to any US destination served non-stop from France.

Since you don't believe me,

5038 4239 Delta Air Lines Inc. CVG CDG 626 12 Seat Utilization:84.1%
4828 3152 Delta Air Lines Inc. CVG CDG 626 11 Seat Utilization:65.3%
6974 4045 Delta Air Lines Inc. CVG CDG 626 10 Seat Utilization:58%
6744 4515 Delta Air Lines Inc. CVG CDG 626 9 Seat Utilization:66.9%
6975 4160 Delta Air Lines Inc. CVG CDG 626 8 Seat Utilization:59.6%
6957 4677 Delta Air Lines Inc. CVG CDG 626 7 Seat Utilization:67.2%
6733 5666 Delta Air Lines Inc. CVG CDG 626 6 Seat Utilization:84.2%
6748 5546 Delta Air Lines Inc. CVG CDG 626 5 Seat Utilization:82.2%
6730 3978 Delta Air Lines Inc. CVG CDG 626 4 Seat Utilization:59.1%
5742 4288 Delta Air Lines Inc. CVG CDG 626 3 Seat Utilization:74.7%
5039 2998 Delta Air Lines Inc. CVG CDG 626 2 Seat Utilization:59.5%
5250 3727 Delta Air Lines Inc. CVG CDG 626 1 Seat Utilization:71%

Average=69% seat utilization
This thread is about TATL flights on DL, not about how DL sometimes sells out CVG-Fayetteville, Arkansas of all places.

KDCAflyer

You obviously don't understand how air travel works. As I've said, load factors don't mean much, as long as a route is generating profit at the level an airline wants. Heck, a flight could have a 10% average load factor, but still be more profitable than one with 90%. If there's a party willing to put up the money for that 10% route.

Bringing up load factors without considering the macro view doesn't serve much purpose.

flyerCO

Only a couple of UK airports applied. Note at this point nothing is even finalized and we're at least a deacde or more from pre-clearance at any UK airport. Also note that European airlines aren't wanting this at their hub airports. SAS is upset over the fact this will cause issues with connecting passengers.

MIDWESTERNFLYER

Lol, first you call out my numbers as being wrong, then when I show you proof, you act like they mean nothing. Haha, you can't have it both ways...

I understand the economics of air travel, but unless you have stats on RASM/CASM, seat utilization is the only available information I have that tells to the possible success/failure of a flight.

And since you are so eager to downplay my info, why don't you share what information on RASM/CASM you have on the DL CDG-CVG flights...

IND could have just the same cargo contracts as CVG(maybe even more) and DL already has contracts with most employers in IND from the NWA days, so CVG doesn't stand out as better than IND for an AMS flight.

KDCAflyer

Nope. Your original point was that CVGCDG is not doing well. I argue that it is, based on the fact that it exists, and runs close to 365 days/year. DL is not keeping it around if it isn't doing well.

I can't open the file from that site, but I'd be interested to see the load factors from similar routes, and perhaps DL's other hubs as well.

Basic logic, and DL's general CVG strategy are on my side.