Delta to suspend Istanbul immediately
Apr 21, 2016, 11:39 am
#46
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Diamond RA still don't have any information on the cancellation of the JFK-IST flight and my trip still shows as a reservation in July, although it is clear the flight won't operate as you can't book the JFK-IST leg. Hopefully they'll honor the confirmed GUC on the return, at least on the Delta metal portion.
Last edited by HohoGAP; Apr 21, 2016 at 11:47 am
Apr 21, 2016, 1:40 pm
#47
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Apr 24, 2016, 4:34 pm
#48
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Well, all last week I was quite busy and oblivious to all this. While I am shocked, I am not surprised.
The security thing is a convenient excuse, but Delta has slowly been abandoning the IST market for several years now as they have slowly conceded defeat to Turkish Airlines, see my post from 2012:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta...gn-market.html
And since I wrote that post TK has expanded its service from then just 3x to JFK, 1x to ORD, 1x to Washington, 1x to LAX and 1x to YYZ, to now also having 1x to Houston, 1x to Miami, 1x to SFO, 1x to Montreal, 1x to Boston and an additional daily flight to LAX.
Most strikingly, next month they are starting a daily flight to ATLANTA. So we are talking 14 flights most days to North America, not to mention flights to Panama, Bogota, Buenos Aires, Sao Paolo and Mexico City starting in the near future (once upon a time people actually did fly via NY to get to these places)!!
People talk about the up or down gauging of a/c. That is immaterial, they have been swapping between 763,764 and A330's for years. What has been doing Delta in has been the "flexible" scheduling whereby they went from a year round carrier to one that cannot even be counted on to fly half the year.
Now, I do hope that they do resume next year, and as someone who was going to fly the route 4-5 times during the effected months, and who has flown it literally hundreds of times, this may very well destroy my DL status............there is only so much I will do to maintain status, but spending my life year round flying through CDG, AMS and FCO is not something that I really want to do.
The security thing is a convenient excuse, but Delta has slowly been abandoning the IST market for several years now as they have slowly conceded defeat to Turkish Airlines, see my post from 2012:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta...gn-market.html
And since I wrote that post TK has expanded its service from then just 3x to JFK, 1x to ORD, 1x to Washington, 1x to LAX and 1x to YYZ, to now also having 1x to Houston, 1x to Miami, 1x to SFO, 1x to Montreal, 1x to Boston and an additional daily flight to LAX.
Most strikingly, next month they are starting a daily flight to ATLANTA. So we are talking 14 flights most days to North America, not to mention flights to Panama, Bogota, Buenos Aires, Sao Paolo and Mexico City starting in the near future (once upon a time people actually did fly via NY to get to these places)!!
People talk about the up or down gauging of a/c. That is immaterial, they have been swapping between 763,764 and A330's for years. What has been doing Delta in has been the "flexible" scheduling whereby they went from a year round carrier to one that cannot even be counted on to fly half the year.
Now, I do hope that they do resume next year, and as someone who was going to fly the route 4-5 times during the effected months, and who has flown it literally hundreds of times, this may very well destroy my DL status............there is only so much I will do to maintain status, but spending my life year round flying through CDG, AMS and FCO is not something that I really want to do.
Apr 25, 2016, 6:49 am
#49
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Trojan. The Russians did not just "tel;l" their people not to go to Turkey. They actively cancelled the permits of almost everyone in the leisure travel business to bring tourists to Turkey, both Turkish and Russian, in an effort to kill the mass tourism business to Turkey. Scheduled flights, such as those operated by Turkish and Aeroflot have been barely effected.
In any case, this had nothing to do with a real or perceived security threat, but a game of chicken between Putin and Erdogan, and has little to do with this claimed or real situation of DL dropping their service for this year.
In any case, this had nothing to do with a real or perceived security threat, but a game of chicken between Putin and Erdogan, and has little to do with this claimed or real situation of DL dropping their service for this year.
Apr 25, 2016, 7:56 am
#50
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Now, I do hope that they do resume next year, and as someone who was going to fly the route 4-5 times during the effected months, and who has flown it literally hundreds of times, this may very well destroy my DL status............there is only so much I will do to maintain status, but spending my life year round flying through CDG, AMS and FCO is not something that I really want to do.
Apr 25, 2016, 12:49 pm
#53
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Maybe TK serves major European airports nonstop from Ankara. IIRC there are also some LCCs based in Turkey, but I suspect that they focus on holiday routes an similarly for LCCs based in other European cities.
Apr 25, 2016, 2:00 pm
#54
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Apr 25, 2016, 3:23 pm
#55
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Turkish flies ESB-FRA.
Xeno. And I have probably connected through FCO to the US 20 times, AMS at least 50 and CDG at least 100.
Once upon a time (when DL flew 7x 365 days a year) DL got 90% of my North America business. When they started playing with the winter schedules (3-4-5x pw) They got maybe 70% of my TA travel. When they really got silly, down to half the year, they got maybe 40% of my TA travel.
Xeno. And I have probably connected through FCO to the US 20 times, AMS at least 50 and CDG at least 100.
Once upon a time (when DL flew 7x 365 days a year) DL got 90% of my North America business. When they started playing with the winter schedules (3-4-5x pw) They got maybe 70% of my TA travel. When they really got silly, down to half the year, they got maybe 40% of my TA travel.
Apr 25, 2016, 3:27 pm
#56
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Turkish flies ESB-FRA.
Xeno. And I have probably connected through FCO to the US 20 times, AMS at least 50 and CDG at least 100.
Once upon a time (when DL flew 7x 365 days a year) DL got 90% of my North America business. When they started playing with the winter schedules (3-4-5x pw) They got maybe 70% of my TA travel. When they really got silly, down to half the year, they got maybe 40% of my TA travel.
Xeno. And I have probably connected through FCO to the US 20 times, AMS at least 50 and CDG at least 100.
Once upon a time (when DL flew 7x 365 days a year) DL got 90% of my North America business. When they started playing with the winter schedules (3-4-5x pw) They got maybe 70% of my TA travel. When they really got silly, down to half the year, they got maybe 40% of my TA travel.
Apr 25, 2016, 4:21 pm
#57
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You would think, although LH and TK have been at "war" now for over two years!
Although both * members, they do not code share anymore and LH gives a miserly 25% status mile credit for TK flights.
In addition TK flooded LH's routes, to the point where LH gave up and withdrew from the IST-MUC market last season.
To give you an idea, LH maybe has max five flights a day from all of Turkey to IST serving two German cities.
TK on the other hand serves FIFTEEN German cities, with something like 50 flights a day to Turkey!
........and we are not just talking about the traditional hubs, they are running 8 a day from Berlin currently, 4x IST (generally one or two are A330's), 2x SAW, 1 ESB and one Izmir, They are running 8 a day combined from FRA, 7 a day combined from MUC and even 4 a day from Stuttgart, Hamburg and Dusseldorf.
And it is NOT because of the huge "diaspora" in Germany. On a flight I had last week from a German city to IST, there were something like 141 passengers, hardly any were Turkish and something like 111 were connecting in IST.
This is the same way TK eliminated AZ from the MXP route, AZ had two flights a day, TK not only ramped it up to 8x at one point, but also essentially started serving every city in Italy direct as well.
The same goes for Iberia. They were never a serious contender in Turkey, having for years done a daily or 5x service with a stop in BCN and then withdrawing and then coming back and withdrawing again. Meanwhile TK not only serviced MAD 3x per day, and BCN 3x per day, but also Bilbao, Malaga, Valencia and even Santiago.
The strategy is to first overwhelm the other carrier in the duopoly, force them out, and then grab not only their passengers, but everyone's transit passengers.
As Dl has just succumbed, it seems to be working.
Although both * members, they do not code share anymore and LH gives a miserly 25% status mile credit for TK flights.
In addition TK flooded LH's routes, to the point where LH gave up and withdrew from the IST-MUC market last season.
To give you an idea, LH maybe has max five flights a day from all of Turkey to IST serving two German cities.
TK on the other hand serves FIFTEEN German cities, with something like 50 flights a day to Turkey!
........and we are not just talking about the traditional hubs, they are running 8 a day from Berlin currently, 4x IST (generally one or two are A330's), 2x SAW, 1 ESB and one Izmir, They are running 8 a day combined from FRA, 7 a day combined from MUC and even 4 a day from Stuttgart, Hamburg and Dusseldorf.
And it is NOT because of the huge "diaspora" in Germany. On a flight I had last week from a German city to IST, there were something like 141 passengers, hardly any were Turkish and something like 111 were connecting in IST.
This is the same way TK eliminated AZ from the MXP route, AZ had two flights a day, TK not only ramped it up to 8x at one point, but also essentially started serving every city in Italy direct as well.
The same goes for Iberia. They were never a serious contender in Turkey, having for years done a daily or 5x service with a stop in BCN and then withdrawing and then coming back and withdrawing again. Meanwhile TK not only serviced MAD 3x per day, and BCN 3x per day, but also Bilbao, Malaga, Valencia and even Santiago.
The strategy is to first overwhelm the other carrier in the duopoly, force them out, and then grab not only their passengers, but everyone's transit passengers.
As Dl has just succumbed, it seems to be working.
Apr 25, 2016, 7:58 pm
#58
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So what country will be next? France? Holland? England?
Apr 26, 2016, 6:08 am
#59
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Funny you should ask:
BA have maintained the same service, 2-3 flights a day depending on the season, however their equipment has remained the same, generally 2 x A320 and a 767. Over the last decade, TK has grabbed every LHR slot that they can get, so they fly four or five flights a day, generally two with A330's or 777's, not to mention 2x to LGW, and several flights a day to EDI, BHM and MAN. In the meantime they have repeatedly beat back BA's multiple attempts to fly into other Turkish cities such as Izmir, Dalaman, Bodrum and Antalya.
Same for AF, while they have maintained their 2x or 3x service, they have downgauged with most a/c being A320 while before they were A321's. TK has increased to five a day (four to CDG), with three of them operated by A330 a/c. They also fly to Tpulouse, Marseilles, Lyon and double or sometimes triple daily to Nice. This means that they not only shrank AF's share to/fr Paris, but also killed AF's flights to Marseilles, Toulouse and Nice. The latter two killed before they even started!
Regarding AMS, KL has more or less maintained its space, by retaining 2 flights a day and codesharing with Pegasus out of SAW, TK has 5-6 flights a day to AMS.
But it really is much more insidious than this. For years Delta was always relegated to the farthest gate, supposedly for security reasons. When the farthest gate was 218, they were at 218, when it was 223, it was 223, when it was 226, it was 226.
What happened when the Skyteam lounge opened which was located closest to the outermost gates? Magically the security concern that had always existed no longer existed and Delta would regularly be assigned gates such as 211, at the opposite end of the terminal.
The same applies to other carriers.
BA have maintained the same service, 2-3 flights a day depending on the season, however their equipment has remained the same, generally 2 x A320 and a 767. Over the last decade, TK has grabbed every LHR slot that they can get, so they fly four or five flights a day, generally two with A330's or 777's, not to mention 2x to LGW, and several flights a day to EDI, BHM and MAN. In the meantime they have repeatedly beat back BA's multiple attempts to fly into other Turkish cities such as Izmir, Dalaman, Bodrum and Antalya.
Same for AF, while they have maintained their 2x or 3x service, they have downgauged with most a/c being A320 while before they were A321's. TK has increased to five a day (four to CDG), with three of them operated by A330 a/c. They also fly to Tpulouse, Marseilles, Lyon and double or sometimes triple daily to Nice. This means that they not only shrank AF's share to/fr Paris, but also killed AF's flights to Marseilles, Toulouse and Nice. The latter two killed before they even started!
Regarding AMS, KL has more or less maintained its space, by retaining 2 flights a day and codesharing with Pegasus out of SAW, TK has 5-6 flights a day to AMS.
But it really is much more insidious than this. For years Delta was always relegated to the farthest gate, supposedly for security reasons. When the farthest gate was 218, they were at 218, when it was 223, it was 223, when it was 226, it was 226.
What happened when the Skyteam lounge opened which was located closest to the outermost gates? Magically the security concern that had always existed no longer existed and Delta would regularly be assigned gates such as 211, at the opposite end of the terminal.
The same applies to other carriers.
Apr 26, 2016, 8:36 am
#60
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Hadn't heard anything regarding re-booking my July DTW-JFK-IST R/T, so decided to once again call the Diamond RA and they now had the updated information and were very accommodating in re-booking and "honoring" my confirmed GUC upgrade on the return through AMS, although only on the Delta metal segment. They did allow me to grab a bulkhead "Comfort +" on the KLM IST-AMS segment (never flown that so no clue if it has any "plus" in it, but at least bulkhead). I tried to get them to schedule through FCO or ATH for a longer GUC segment but they said I could choose any of the 26 routings that showed up on Delta.com. Unfortunately, even with those selections nothing but CDG/AMS connections on the European side. Also waitlisted on the outbound DTW-CDG segment with my last GUC for the year. Better than nothing and pleased that I could select segments with seats I wanted.