Boarding Process
Jul 6, 2015, 6:37 pm
#46
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: SJC
Programs: DL PM MM, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 3,276
I have to agree with @JeffCO and @Widgets here.
The root cause of the boarding pandemonium is jockeying for overhead bin space. To help alivieate this issue, I offer the following possible solutions:
1. Charge non-status passengers for carry-on bags that can't fit under the seat in front of them
2. Don't charge to check bags
3. Enforce reserved overhead bins for PREM/C+
4. Valet bag service for PREM and C+
The root cause of the boarding pandemonium is jockeying for overhead bin space. To help alivieate this issue, I offer the following possible solutions:
1. Charge non-status passengers for carry-on bags that can't fit under the seat in front of them
2. Don't charge to check bags
3. Enforce reserved overhead bins for PREM/C+
4. Valet bag service for PREM and C+
2) Checked baggage takes labor to move it from the counter to the plane and from one plane to another plane and then to the baggage belt. You get something for your baggage fee.
3) This would be nice, but difficult to enforce.
4) If I had something expensive in my carry on, I'm not so sure I would want to leave it where I'm not for any period of time.
It's great when I was able to travel and only carry a small backpack so I could be the last to board and still have a place for my stuff. The only reasons to board early are to secure overhead bin space and to drink a PDB.
Jul 6, 2015, 9:57 pm
#47
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,880
1) I see it as wrong to charge for carry-on bags that I have to put into the bin myself.
2) Checked baggage takes labor to move it from the counter to the plane and from one plane to another plane and then to the baggage belt. You get something for your baggage fee.
3) This would be nice, but difficult to enforce.
4) If I had something expensive in my carry on, I'm not so sure I would want to leave it where I'm not for any period of time.
It's great when I was able to travel and only carry a small backpack so I could be the last to board and still have a place for my stuff. The only reasons to board early are to secure overhead bin space and to drink a PDB.
2) Checked baggage takes labor to move it from the counter to the plane and from one plane to another plane and then to the baggage belt. You get something for your baggage fee.
3) This would be nice, but difficult to enforce.
4) If I had something expensive in my carry on, I'm not so sure I would want to leave it where I'm not for any period of time.
It's great when I was able to travel and only carry a small backpack so I could be the last to board and still have a place for my stuff. The only reasons to board early are to secure overhead bin space and to drink a PDB.
Regarding it being wrong to charge for overhead bin space... I don't quite see eye to eye with you on this. Because overhead bin space is scarce, I feel the airline has the right to regulate it (e.g. charge for its use). However, I agree that this would be difficult to execute and optically wouldn't look great.
As an aside, charging for overhead bin space would probably not be profitable. It would incentivize pax to check bags which would a) increase weight and therefore fuel costs as packing restrictions/habits are loosened, and b) displace valuable cargo.
Jul 7, 2015, 11:33 pm
#48
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: ATL
Programs: DL GM / PC APM / SPG GM / GP PM
Posts: 248
Monday AM....ATL -> SEA
105 names on the upgrade list - for 5 seats
Anyone want to guess how that boarding process went through PREM & SKY?!?!
Not. Good.
I still contend that adding DM's to PREM devalues first, especially for paying passengers. I also think a lot, but certainly not all, of the PDB failures have to do with the fact that now instead of 12 - 20 people getting on during first boarding its 40 - 60 and there's no break, by the time all those people clear the jetway, they've already started filling it with SKY and 1. When I've seen them do it lately their fighting the crowd and trying to swim upstream to go fix the beverage then fighting the crowd to get back. I actually feel kinda sorry for them. I know many disagree, especially the DM's who feel that they are benefiting from the change.
105 names on the upgrade list - for 5 seats
Anyone want to guess how that boarding process went through PREM & SKY?!?!
Not. Good.
I still contend that adding DM's to PREM devalues first, especially for paying passengers. I also think a lot, but certainly not all, of the PDB failures have to do with the fact that now instead of 12 - 20 people getting on during first boarding its 40 - 60 and there's no break, by the time all those people clear the jetway, they've already started filling it with SKY and 1. When I've seen them do it lately their fighting the crowd and trying to swim upstream to go fix the beverage then fighting the crowd to get back. I actually feel kinda sorry for them. I know many disagree, especially the DM's who feel that they are benefiting from the change.
Jul 7, 2015, 11:54 pm
#49
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,079
People are generally willing to follow the rules and behave in a civilized manner if:
They can trust that the rules will be enforced, and
The rules are clear.
Neither of these conditions are met and this is primarily due to a failure or inability of the airlines to maintain order.
It used to be that our society as a whole had an ethos that did not require such reinforcement but alas, those days are gone. It seems to still apply in Australia (in the airport) but few other places I have been.
They can trust that the rules will be enforced, and
The rules are clear.
Neither of these conditions are met and this is primarily due to a failure or inability of the airlines to maintain order.
It used to be that our society as a whole had an ethos that did not require such reinforcement but alas, those days are gone. It seems to still apply in Australia (in the airport) but few other places I have been.
Jul 8, 2015, 12:24 am
#50
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: MSP
Programs: DL PM, MM, NR; HH Diamond, Bonvoy LT Gold, Hyatt Explorist, IHG Diamond, others
Posts: 12,159
What I also wanted to mention was the clogging of the queue by the "Zone 1" passengers that are led to believe (or just don't read the fine print) that they are the 1st to get on the plane. I see so many of them lined up, AMEX card clutched tightly to their boarding pass very happy to use this "perk".
Jul 8, 2015, 10:45 am
#51
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: PVU, SLC
Programs: DL Pork Medallion, PP, GE
Posts: 1,657
Regarding it being wrong to charge for overhead bin space... I don't quite see eye to eye with you on this. Because overhead bin space is scarce, I feel the airline has the right to regulate it (e.g. charge for its use). However, I agree that this would be difficult to execute and optically wouldn't look great.
As an aside, charging for overhead bin space would probably not be profitable. It would incentivize pax to check bags which would a) increase weight and therefore fuel costs as packing restrictions/habits are loosened, and b) displace valuable cargo.
As an aside, charging for overhead bin space would probably not be profitable. It would incentivize pax to check bags which would a) increase weight and therefore fuel costs as packing restrictions/habits are loosened, and b) displace valuable cargo.
People are generally willing to follow the rules and behave in a civilized manner if:
They can trust that the rules will be enforced, and
The rules are clear.
Neither of these conditions are met and this is primarily due to a failure or inability of the airlines to maintain order.
It used to be that our society as a whole had an ethos that did not require such reinforcement but alas, those days are gone. It seems to still apply in Australia (in the airport) but few other places I have been.
They can trust that the rules will be enforced, and
The rules are clear.
Neither of these conditions are met and this is primarily due to a failure or inability of the airlines to maintain order.
It used to be that our society as a whole had an ethos that did not require such reinforcement but alas, those days are gone. It seems to still apply in Australia (in the airport) but few other places I have been.
Jul 8, 2015, 2:11 pm
#52
formerly known as s2kdriver80
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Long Island, New York, USA (JFK <--> OTP)
Programs: Delta SkyMiles, SPG, Marriott Rewards, Amex MR, Chase UR
Posts: 317
Jul 8, 2015, 10:33 pm
#53
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ATL
Programs: Marriott Platinum, Delta Kryptonium Medallion, National Executive
Posts: 1,889
Jul 8, 2015, 10:40 pm
#54
Join Date: Aug 2009
Programs: Delta Diamond 1MM, Marriott Plat
Posts: 503
I like the boarding process, mostly. Here's the problems, as I see them:
* People with "zone 1" and "zone 2" on their passes are also the least experienced travelers, so they may not understand those are actually the third and fourth groups to board (not counting the "special needs" round.)
* Certain people with "zone 1" and "zone 2" know EXACTLY what they are doing when they rush the line and play stupid at the barcode scanner. Often I see DL employees tell these people to F off. (Yay!) They should do it even more often and even more nastily. Don't play that game, crazy lady who yelled at me for cutting in line with a Zone 2 pass when mine says PREM! As if!
If they changed PREM to 1, SKY to 2, 1 to 3, and 2 to 4...that might be clearer. But you lose out on the special branding, which is probably nonsense but brand people care about branding a LOT.
Also the "need extra time" group is abusive too. But I don't see any tactful way to deal with it, so it is what it is.
No there is nothing wrong with letting Diamonds board first. It's all about overhead space. It means that earlybird Diamonds get top priority on overhead bins no matter where you sit in the plane. That's a benefit of medallion status. It really doesn't matter much to a first class passenger when some Coach Diamonds are boarding at the same time, imho.
* People with "zone 1" and "zone 2" on their passes are also the least experienced travelers, so they may not understand those are actually the third and fourth groups to board (not counting the "special needs" round.)
* Certain people with "zone 1" and "zone 2" know EXACTLY what they are doing when they rush the line and play stupid at the barcode scanner. Often I see DL employees tell these people to F off. (Yay!) They should do it even more often and even more nastily. Don't play that game, crazy lady who yelled at me for cutting in line with a Zone 2 pass when mine says PREM! As if!
If they changed PREM to 1, SKY to 2, 1 to 3, and 2 to 4...that might be clearer. But you lose out on the special branding, which is probably nonsense but brand people care about branding a LOT.
Also the "need extra time" group is abusive too. But I don't see any tactful way to deal with it, so it is what it is.
No there is nothing wrong with letting Diamonds board first. It's all about overhead space. It means that earlybird Diamonds get top priority on overhead bins no matter where you sit in the plane. That's a benefit of medallion status. It really doesn't matter much to a first class passenger when some Coach Diamonds are boarding at the same time, imho.
Jul 9, 2015, 8:38 am
#55
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,880
I like the boarding process, mostly. Here's the problems, as I see them:
* People with "zone 1" and "zone 2" on their passes are also the least experienced travelers, so they may not understand those are actually the third and fourth groups to board (not counting the "special needs" round.)
* Certain people with "zone 1" and "zone 2" know EXACTLY what they are doing when they rush the line and play stupid at the barcode scanner. Often I see DL employees tell these people to F off. (Yay!) They should do it even more often and even more nastily. Don't play that game, crazy lady who yelled at me for cutting in line with a Zone 2 pass when mine says PREM! As if!
If they changed PREM to 1, SKY to 2, 1 to 3, and 2 to 4...that might be clearer. But you lose out on the special branding, which is probably nonsense but brand people care about branding a LOT.
Also the "need extra time" group is abusive too. But I don't see any tactful way to deal with it, so it is what it is.
No there is nothing wrong with letting Diamonds board first. It's all about overhead space. It means that earlybird Diamonds get top priority on overhead bins no matter where you sit in the plane. That's a benefit of medallion status. It really doesn't matter much to a first class passenger when some Coach Diamonds are boarding at the same time, imho.
* People with "zone 1" and "zone 2" on their passes are also the least experienced travelers, so they may not understand those are actually the third and fourth groups to board (not counting the "special needs" round.)
* Certain people with "zone 1" and "zone 2" know EXACTLY what they are doing when they rush the line and play stupid at the barcode scanner. Often I see DL employees tell these people to F off. (Yay!) They should do it even more often and even more nastily. Don't play that game, crazy lady who yelled at me for cutting in line with a Zone 2 pass when mine says PREM! As if!
If they changed PREM to 1, SKY to 2, 1 to 3, and 2 to 4...that might be clearer. But you lose out on the special branding, which is probably nonsense but brand people care about branding a LOT.
Also the "need extra time" group is abusive too. But I don't see any tactful way to deal with it, so it is what it is.
No there is nothing wrong with letting Diamonds board first. It's all about overhead space. It means that earlybird Diamonds get top priority on overhead bins no matter where you sit in the plane. That's a benefit of medallion status. It really doesn't matter much to a first class passenger when some Coach Diamonds are boarding at the same time, imho.
GAs could also make it very clear that PREM and SKY are actually pre-boarding to avoid confusion with regular/zone boarding.
Jul 9, 2015, 10:50 am
#56
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Paradise
Posts: 1,617
No there is nothing wrong with letting Diamonds board first. It's all about overhead space. It means that earlybird Diamonds get top priority on overhead bins no matter where you sit in the plane. That's a benefit of medallion status. It really doesn't matter much to a first class passenger when some Coach Diamonds are boarding at the same time, imho.
Jul 9, 2015, 11:43 am
#57
Join Date: May 2015
Location: DCA
Programs: AA EXP, DL FO, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 6,712
Jul 9, 2015, 11:51 am
#58
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,880
Regardless, suppose there are a lot of DMs in Y boarding with F. Why should any of the F pax care? There's plenty of overhead bin space in F and its not like any of the DMs flying in Y use it.
Jul 9, 2015, 12:02 pm
#59
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: SJC
Programs: DL PM MM, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 3,276
Jul 9, 2015, 1:13 pm
#60
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Paradise
Posts: 1,617
Makes no difference in the current setup.
Here's why I care. The few times I fly Delta I have about 6-8 persons with me. All paid F. Most of the party are 60+, and while not fully handicapped, there are some disabilities, which is why I drag them behind me. My last flight with this new rule implemented was a mess. While there weren't 50+ Diamonds, there were quite a few who could not be bothered being stuck behind persons who they deemed moving to slow for them and almost caused a person using a cane to trip because he tried to glide past and the cane got caught in his luggage. So I had to get vocal in the jetway and release a few choice words after which everybody slowed their speed.
I realize we could have pre-boarded, but it was never a problem with just FC boarding and me holding tickets for almost 50% of the cabin. You might get funny looks when people see only one person with a cane yet a group of 7-8 in line as preboards. It looks however that I'll have to start using it.
I'm sorry, but I really don't buy this argument. Flights that have "50+ Diamonds" are almost exclusively business routes (e.g. Monday morning / Thursday night). A large share of the F seats on these routes are cleared as upgrades since most corporate policies prohibit purchasing F. Plus, I've never noticed an excessively large number of people boarding with PREM on the routes I fly.
Regardless, suppose there are a lot of DMs in Y boarding with F. Why should any of the F pax care? There's plenty of overhead bin space in F and its not like any of the DMs flying in Y use it.
Regardless, suppose there are a lot of DMs in Y boarding with F. Why should any of the F pax care? There's plenty of overhead bin space in F and its not like any of the DMs flying in Y use it.
I realize we could have pre-boarded, but it was never a problem with just FC boarding and me holding tickets for almost 50% of the cabin. You might get funny looks when people see only one person with a cane yet a group of 7-8 in line as preboards. It looks however that I'll have to start using it.