Yet another flight diverted over reclining seat, this time Delta
Sep 2, 2014, 11:46 am
#91
Join Date: Oct 2002
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I'm 6'3". When I sit in coach, my knees touch the back of the seat in front of me. I really don't care either way about the person in front of me reclining, but I do care if they recline quickly - crushing my knees in the process.
And I've had someone recline quickly while I was leaning forward getting something out of the backpack I had placed under their seat - and it really tweaked my neck. So it can happen with the right set of circumstances.
Lastly, to the people telling others to just buy an F or E+ ticket, I'll buy them when I get compensated for being taller than you.
The reclining issue is just like everything else in this world: It's all about people only looking out for themselves to the exclusion of common decency for those around them. We now live in a "me" world.
And I've had someone recline quickly while I was leaning forward getting something out of the backpack I had placed under their seat - and it really tweaked my neck. So it can happen with the right set of circumstances.
Lastly, to the people telling others to just buy an F or E+ ticket, I'll buy them when I get compensated for being taller than you.
The reclining issue is just like everything else in this world: It's all about people only looking out for themselves to the exclusion of common decency for those around them. We now live in a "me" world.
Sep 2, 2014, 11:48 am
#92
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http://www.delta.com/content/www/en_...ing_id=313x761
Sep 2, 2014, 11:51 am
#93
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Posts: 3,790
I am in the crowd of people who doesn't recline their seats/is against it but if I am on a flight where it is diverted due to something like this, I will file a lawsuit against the individuals (but not the airline). Maybe that will teach them to use their brain before inconveniencing others.
Sep 2, 2014, 11:53 am
#94
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 904
Interesting that I could pay for EC and have to tolerate additional recline! Nixing that idea-- ever.
Still think that A-B-C recline and D-E-F no recline is the better option.
Still think that A-B-C recline and D-E-F no recline is the better option.
Sep 2, 2014, 11:56 am
#95
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Passengers are aware that seats recline. Put your head on the tray table at your own risk. Put your laptop on the tray table at your own risk. You can see how much clearance there is, I never understand all these guys who are snatching their laptop away at the last second before shocking, unexpected, impeding doom.
As long as the recline button is there and is operated by the passenger in front, that recline space is that passenger's. That's how the seat works. I don't understand how it's so hard for so many people to accept.
Yes, it blows that we are all jammed in.
I am 230 and a bit over six feet and I work on my laptop in economy on Delta without an issue. I don't put it on the tray table. Recline has not been a problem for me.
I recline slowly just in case that someone is not expecting it. Same as someone else said above, if someone is not yielding the right of way properly on a highway it doesn't mean we have to run them down. Some courtesy in shared space is necessary for everyone to get along, and this is something that's going to have to be learned over here that say the Japanese figured out a long time ago.
People are still stuck on their own private comfort. *You* may not recline *your* seat because it bothers *me*. As long as the button is on their chair, sorry, that's an invalid argument. Similarly you don't get to control the cabin temperature so that it's perfect for you. It's easy to use a blanket. It's not easy to cool down. So same thing, in the battle for the shared resources you need to make a call based on what's reasonable.
It's shared space. It won't be ideal for anyone. If you want to stay upright because you feel it grants the passenger behind you more comfort, then you are a really good citizen. But that doesn't entitle you to take away the comfort of the passenger in front because you volunteered to give yours up.
A lot of the knee space problem is solved by just spreading your legs apart a bit anyway. I think it is in general more of the idea of "how dare he!" that sets people off.
That is, people are still convinced they are a special snowflake and how dare anyone else not respect that.
You all have choices out there. Want to fly in an all vertical arrangement? They are there for you to buy. Go buy them. Need that extra 4 inches of legroom so badly that you're willing to ground a plane over it? $10 will get you what you want. Surely you have $10.00 if you are flying.
I don't stop someone from watching a movie beside me that has scenes that disturb me (how dare they watch something with violence on an airplane! Don't they know that makes me nervous and ruins my flight! Won't someone think of the children?). Basically they get to press all the fancy buttons that are attached to their seat and I get to shut up about it.
These groundings though I hope at least underscore a message to the airlines that they've hit the limit for packing people in. The next idiot who grounds a plane over his precious knee room should suck on a ban I think and hopefully end the nonsense. But the airlines should take heed too. They are putting too many indignities on the cattle, er, passengers, and people are fed up and have hair triggers.
As long as the recline button is there and is operated by the passenger in front, that recline space is that passenger's. That's how the seat works. I don't understand how it's so hard for so many people to accept.
Yes, it blows that we are all jammed in.
I am 230 and a bit over six feet and I work on my laptop in economy on Delta without an issue. I don't put it on the tray table. Recline has not been a problem for me.
I recline slowly just in case that someone is not expecting it. Same as someone else said above, if someone is not yielding the right of way properly on a highway it doesn't mean we have to run them down. Some courtesy in shared space is necessary for everyone to get along, and this is something that's going to have to be learned over here that say the Japanese figured out a long time ago.
People are still stuck on their own private comfort. *You* may not recline *your* seat because it bothers *me*. As long as the button is on their chair, sorry, that's an invalid argument. Similarly you don't get to control the cabin temperature so that it's perfect for you. It's easy to use a blanket. It's not easy to cool down. So same thing, in the battle for the shared resources you need to make a call based on what's reasonable.
It's shared space. It won't be ideal for anyone. If you want to stay upright because you feel it grants the passenger behind you more comfort, then you are a really good citizen. But that doesn't entitle you to take away the comfort of the passenger in front because you volunteered to give yours up.
A lot of the knee space problem is solved by just spreading your legs apart a bit anyway. I think it is in general more of the idea of "how dare he!" that sets people off.
That is, people are still convinced they are a special snowflake and how dare anyone else not respect that.
You all have choices out there. Want to fly in an all vertical arrangement? They are there for you to buy. Go buy them. Need that extra 4 inches of legroom so badly that you're willing to ground a plane over it? $10 will get you what you want. Surely you have $10.00 if you are flying.
I don't stop someone from watching a movie beside me that has scenes that disturb me (how dare they watch something with violence on an airplane! Don't they know that makes me nervous and ruins my flight! Won't someone think of the children?). Basically they get to press all the fancy buttons that are attached to their seat and I get to shut up about it.
These groundings though I hope at least underscore a message to the airlines that they've hit the limit for packing people in. The next idiot who grounds a plane over his precious knee room should suck on a ban I think and hopefully end the nonsense. But the airlines should take heed too. They are putting too many indignities on the cattle, er, passengers, and people are fed up and have hair triggers.
There is so much drama on this topic of crushed knees, broken laptops, and injured heads. I think I will submit this to the A&E network as a new series: "Recline Wars." I wonder if Dave is available (Hester, not me).
Unhappily, I expect there will be peace in the Middle East long before there is peace on this particular topic. Unless all of the airlines max out their seating ala Spirit and Allegiant.
David
Sep 2, 2014, 11:58 am
#96
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 904
More central idea: "Why should I tolerate discomfort just for you to have the superfluous pleasure of recline"? Last time I checked, it was a 100% you-win-I-lose scenario, and isn't accepting that type of scenario just the pits? It is exactly like the smoking issue on planes not that long ago, one faction wins, the other loses.
Sep 2, 2014, 11:58 am
#97
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I like the suggestion that those causing the disturbance be held accountable for their actions. The costs to divert and to reroute the resulting missed connections are foreseeable consequences. Perhaps Delta could simply announce that in-flight behavior that causes a diversion shall be subject to a $50,000 penalty or, for those who want to pay the exact costs associated with their behavior, shall be prosecuted.
To me, anyone who has a seat that can recline should be fully allowed to recline as the seat permits--PERIOD. If a passenger behind that seat doesn't like it, TOUGH--either accept it or don't fly that airline again or pay for a better seat. If the passenger behind throws any fit or says or does anything that causes a flight to be diverted or delayed, then that passenger behind should be banned from that airline and fined according to airline or DOT policy.
Sep 2, 2014, 12:02 pm
#98
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Sep 2, 2014, 12:03 pm
#99
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More central idea: "Why should I tolerate discomfort just for you to have the superfluous pleasure of recline"? Last time I checked, it was a 100% you-win-I-lose scenario, and isn't accepting that type of scenario just the pits? It is exactly like the smoking issue on planes not that long ago, one faction wins, the other loses.
It's not that difficult. Outrage over a seat reclining in front of you is the problem--not the seat recline.
Sep 2, 2014, 12:03 pm
#100
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Beverly Hills
Posts: 713
Why is there any issue here? ANYone has a RIGHT to recline. End of story. There is no recourse. There is no argument to that. I fully support everyone who has caused an issue to the person behind them *not* allowing a recline.
Sep 2, 2014, 12:04 pm
#101
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: TPA
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...
Let's even keep this unique to Delta. You can buy an EC seat for $9 more on a short-haul flight or as much as $99 on a JFK->LAX leg (i think, havent flown a Tcon in a while).
How many non GM, PM, DM's are paying the $99 on this leg? A decent snack, free drinks, extra legroom, priority boarding, etc.... A relatively affordable way to have a nicer flight. I dont work for Delta but my guess is most people in the EC seats are there on the free upgrades and most kettles prefer to save the $99.
...
Let's even keep this unique to Delta. You can buy an EC seat for $9 more on a short-haul flight or as much as $99 on a JFK->LAX leg (i think, havent flown a Tcon in a while).
How many non GM, PM, DM's are paying the $99 on this leg? A decent snack, free drinks, extra legroom, priority boarding, etc.... A relatively affordable way to have a nicer flight. I dont work for Delta but my guess is most people in the EC seats are there on the free upgrades and most kettles prefer to save the $99.
...
Sep 2, 2014, 12:09 pm
#102
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Does $99 really get you all that extra on Delta? I recently decided to pay an $89 for an upgrade to E+ (I think they call it) on a UA flight IAD-SFO, just to try it out. For that, I got more leg room, and a quicker on/off because I was closer to the door. That's it. No free drinks or better snacks, no priority boarding. I'm not tall enough that that's worth $89...
Sep 2, 2014, 12:12 pm
#103
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 904
Just like everyone had a "right" to smoke on flights at one time (the airlines provided ashtrays in the armrests, quite near the recline button), we shall see where the odious "right" to recline a seat feature ends up eventually. How long till we hear: "Daddy, you mean once people on planes were able to mash the knees of those behind them?"
Sep 2, 2014, 12:17 pm
#104
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 23
Lastly, to the people telling others to just buy an F or E+ ticket, I'll buy them when I get compensated for being taller than you.
The reclining issue is just like everything else in this world: It's all about people only looking out for themselves to the exclusion of common decency for those around them. We now live in a "me" world.
The reclining issue is just like everything else in this world: It's all about people only looking out for themselves to the exclusion of common decency for those around them. We now live in a "me" world.
Just like everyone had a "right" to smoke on flights at one time (the airlines provided ashtrays in the armrests, quite near the recline button), we shall see where the odious "right" to recline a seat feature ends up eventually. How long till we hear: "Daddy, you mean once people on planes were able to mash the knees of those behind them?"
Sep 2, 2014, 12:18 pm
#105
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Just like everyone had a "right" to smoke on flights at one time (the airlines provided ashtrays in the armrests, quite near the recline button), we shall see where the odious "right" to recline a seat feature ends up eventually. How long till we hear: "Daddy, you mean once people on planes were able to mash the knees of those behind them?"
Almost every seat on an airplane (except for those that would block an exit row, as mandated by the FAA) has the ability to slightly recline. This slight recline is not particularly problematic for 99% of flyers, as everyone who deals with it can recline themselves to gain back the lost space for the most part.
This is a scenario where a few bad apples are creating issues that have repercussions for everyone. I am 6'2" and my husband is 6'5" and we have dealt maturely with the recline issue for our entire lives--and are no worse for wear after flying E and E+. It's annoying but manageable...and we have the option of paying more for E+/bulkead or for paying for premium seats.