yohanson

That isn't always possible. I recently purchased a ticket very close in and got stuck in a middle seat that wasn't even in EC nor in and exit row. I was number 7 for 0 seats on the upgrade list on an S fare. I was miserable but it could have been worse. I was the only person in my row with broad shoulders.

tryathlete

Seats are too narrow, pitch is too small, let's make a condition of any future mergers, a requirement of 18" width and 35" pitch with individual armrests.

Karelia

90% of the flying public should already know that their tickets come with minimum legroom(or less).

sspontak

Not too smart for that unruly passenger to be leaning so far forward. So typical to blame your own stupidity on someone else.

COMMONC3NTS

To be fair there is nothing wrong with using your tray table for work, laptops, food, or sleep. On long flights you need to be able to use your tray table without the person in front of you preventing you.
It is more comfortable to sleep on the tray table then to recline 2 inches. Reclining really does nothing except inconvenience the person behind you.
That is why lots of people sleep on the tray tables. I see it all the time.
This girl did not move for 30 minutes at all. She was sound asleep and the jerk in front of her just rammed right into her head.
It was so wrong.

hazelrah

Question is, are airline seats designed for the average 1960's 5'8 175 pound man and the 5'3" 110 pound woman or the people of today?

chmorris

I really believe this seat recline situation has gotten out of control but I can certainly understand both sides. I am fortunate enough to have status and have access to UAL econ plus seats when ticketing so the extra leg room does help. However, when I fly another airline where it is not automatic, I pay for the upgrade to whatever the airlines version of econ plus is. I am short (5'3)but still feel the pain by the airlines and their new configured seats. Although I fly united mostly, I absolutely hate the new more slim profile seats that they are installing - even FC seats are not that great.

Now, I want to address another issue that so many are weighing in on…on a very early morning flt last month with my DIL, we were exhausted so sleep was a definite for us. She had the window and me the aisle- 2nd row. New seats have little recline so I chose to use the tray table and immediately fell asleep. However, the gentleman in front of me (in bulkhead) halfway into the flt decided to not only recline but prop his feet up on bulkhead wall further pushing his seat back and into my head (abruptly) on the tray. Did it hurt yes and it frustrated me BUT I absolutely saw no need to make a scene because of it. So I don't understand the person feeling they needed to cause a scene and curse, etc.

I agree with the other comment that we all need to have and express common decency but then again, some people just don't seem to have been raised with it. Unfortunately, I think this situation will continue to rear its ugly head and reach a conclusion that no one is happy with…travel has already been become something much worse than what it used to be which is sad. Sorry for the short story…

kop84

Why can't we all just behave like adults and maybe come to some sort of agreement with the other people around you. Is it your right to recline, yes. Is it ok for the person to behind you to politely ask if you can put your seat up, yes. Why is it that two humans can't come to some sort of middle ground?

Like maybe reclining for a little while until beverage service or waiting till after beverages/meals are served.

Or maybe instead of going the full way back just a little bit would do. People may need to recline on a daytime domestic flight to sleep for a variety of reason. People also may need to work on a short flight for a variety of reason.

Perhaps even the person not wanting someone in front of them to recline could offer to buy that person a drink. On a longer flight $7-8 seems like a good deal to me.

Or maybe we've finally reached a tipping point in society where everyone is just too ME ME ME and passengers are going to get into screaming matches every day and then the airlines really will just lock all the seats followed quickly by moving them even closer together and then no one's happy.

gooselee

Were you on the flight in question? These statements make it seem like you were.

Fact: Airlines provide seats that recline.
Fact: Airlines provide tray tables.

Combined, it seems perfectly reasonable that a passenger should expect to be able to recline a seat that is designed to recline, and open and use a tray table that is designed to be opened and used by the person in their seat. Even *gasp* both at the same time if they wanted to!

The current design/arrangement of airplane cabins means that sometimes all the parts don't quite fit together, but that doesn't change the fact that if an amenity is provided, it makes sense for the passenger to believe they should be able to make use of it.

At the same time, it's also perfectly reasonable for human beings in a shared space to treat each other with some level of basic respect and consideration. Sadly, this last point is the one that seems to be overlooked the most when cases like this come up.

bhrubin

It's generally all about people wanting to get the room/recline they paid for...and people not being willing to politely ask other people to allow the recline they paid for. Too many people simply push back with no consideration of the trouble they may cause--without even an apology or a request to the passenger in front or behind.

Just as the child kicking the seat in front is problematic--especially when their parent sitting adjacent should be stopping it or apologizing to the passenger in front--the passengers taking affront at a seat being reclined are most often barking up the wrong tree. When passengers try to get up, a simple request to the reclined passenger in front of them (especially true in domestic premium cabins!) is all that's normally needed for the seat to be returned to upright temporarily to allow passage or to allow a seatback tray to be opened. Too many people simply get angry and overreact.

FirstInFlight

This is an interesting discussion with a variety of perspectives and viewpoints. It would seem that there are a couple of issues. - I hope Delta is reading these discussions.

Delta decides how to set up the interior. Like every airline they specify the number of seats, the pitch and the recline. Surely there are some known engineering rules that apply to set minimum distances. I've flown on aircraft where the recline wasn't an issue - and others where it was ridiculous. I've sat in FC and had the seat in front of me recline way too far. I assume that in retrofitting aircraft Delta perhaps overlooked that issue. It appears that many of today's aircraft rolled off the assembly line with more distance between the seats. Over time they were retrofitted and the distance between the seats was reduced but the seat recline was not addressed. I saw a recent article that Delta was retrofitting to make the bathrooms smaller. That seems like a lot of money to gain an inch - but illustrates the point that the airlines are acutely aware of exactly how much space in on an aircraft.

The comments that point out that the flying public keep putting price first is a valid point. As noted, there are other options on the aircraft. But when Delta sells economy comfort seats for an additional fee - and uses the additional recline as one of the reasons to pay the additional fee - then one would have to believe that you are entitled to recline. It would seem that a FA would be obligated to support the ability to recline.

Another good point is that the worst flyers are often the DYKWIA crowd and not the poor soul rarely flying in a rear middle seat. Do we know if it is applicable in these cases? I don't question the logic and the precedent - just wondering whether we actually know if it applies to this situation.

I like the suggestion that those causing the disturbance be held accountable for their actions. The costs to divert and to reroute the resulting missed connections are foreseeable consequences. Perhaps Delta could simply announce that in-flight behavior that causes a diversion shall be subject to a $50,000 penalty or, for those who want to pay the exact costs associated with their behavior, shall be prosecuted.

PushingTin

The biggest problem I have with the seat in front of me being reclined in coach is when I use the laptop. In E I don't even try, in E+ I can do it somewhat. The issue is that the edge of the seat where the tray table was is often a hard corner. When the seat back leans back, the edge of my 15 inch laptop catches there and has the potential to crack the screen. Just a bit of radiusing of that edge would go a long ways towards getting rid of this problem. I sit upright on almost all my flights. It's not that uncomfortable to me, and I try to be polite. I might take it back a notch or two.

What I really hate is on overseas flights with meals when the person in front doesn't sit up straight. Usually I can get the stewardess to get them to sit up. Just odd to be able to see my meal and theirs at the same time.

sspontak

Well I have a right to recline and I will continue to use it. I normally do use the recline because it relieves a pain in my back that I get when I sit upright for an extended period of time.

Why shouldn't I have a right to use it for my own comfort when the recline is available?

If a non reclining seat in front of you is so important to you then look at the seat map for a seat that does not recline. This is usually in the emergency exit row. You might have to pay extra but they are available.

tom_MN

Nobody PAYS for recline, some seats have it and some don't. But nobody pays for recline.

tyberius

Passengers are aware that seats recline. Put your head on the tray table at your own risk. Put your laptop on the tray table at your own risk. You can see how much clearance there is, I never understand all these guys who are snatching their laptop away at the last second before shocking, unexpected, impeding doom.

As long as the recline button is there and is operated by the passenger in front, that recline space is that passenger's. That's how the seat works. I don't understand how it's so hard for so many people to accept.

Yes, it blows that we are all jammed in.

I am 230 and a bit over six feet and I work on my laptop in economy on Delta without an issue. I don't put it on the tray table. Recline has not been a problem for me.

I recline slowly just in case that someone is not expecting it. Same as someone else said above, if someone is not yielding the right of way properly on a highway it doesn't mean we have to run them down. Some courtesy in shared space is necessary for everyone to get along, and this is something that's going to have to be learned over here that say the Japanese figured out a long time ago.

People are still stuck on their own private comfort. *You* may not recline *your* seat because it bothers *me*. As long as the button is on their chair, sorry, that's an invalid argument. Similarly you don't get to control the cabin temperature so that it's perfect for you. It's easy to use a blanket. It's not easy to cool down. So same thing, in the battle for the shared resources you need to make a call based on what's reasonable.

It's shared space. It won't be ideal for anyone. If you want to stay upright because you feel it grants the passenger behind you more comfort, then you are a really good citizen. But that doesn't entitle you to take away the comfort of the passenger in front because you volunteered to give yours up.

A lot of the knee space problem is solved by just spreading your legs apart a bit anyway. I think it is in general more of the idea of "how dare he!" that sets people off.

That is, people are still convinced they are a special snowflake and how dare anyone else not respect that.

You all have choices out there. Want to fly in an all vertical arrangement? They are there for you to buy. Go buy them. Need that extra 4 inches of legroom so badly that you're willing to ground a plane over it? $10 will get you what you want. Surely you have $10.00 if you are flying.

I don't stop someone from watching a movie beside me that has scenes that disturb me (how dare they watch something with violence on an airplane! Don't they know that makes me nervous and ruins my flight! Won't someone think of the children?). Basically they get to press all the fancy buttons that are attached to their seat and I get to shut up about it.

These groundings though I hope at least underscore a message to the airlines that they've hit the limit for packing people in. The next idiot who grounds a plane over his precious knee room should suck on a ban I think and hopefully end the nonsense. But the airlines should take heed too. They are putting too many indignities on the cattle, er, passengers, and people are fed up and have hair triggers.