If you fly primarily domestic and have a spouse that can go along often, it's still a fantastic choice. The point is it has value to some people. Maybe not you. But this is an example of how and why FFPs work. They have differentiators that attract different kinds of people.

Actually, I still think it is all about schedule and price. If you live in Boston and have the misfortune of traveling to the murderers row of WN destinations like Kansas City, St Louis, Akron, Baltimore, and Milwaukee, then you will choose WN. If you don't, you'll look elsewhere.

FWIW, even a free ticket wouldn't see me accompanying my spouse to Akron or St Louis.

If those other airlines aren't changing their FF programs, then they aren't losing any loyalty from changing their FF programs. And if they live on low fares, then they don't have any loyalty to worry about in the first place.

If the airlines never believed that FF programs gained them profits, then they would not have instituted them in the first place nor continued them in the second.

I don't actually believe that WN and B6 "live" off low fares. Indeed, I think their low fare reputation is largely a myth at this point. I think that WN lives off their operational efficiency, some customer-friendly policies, and strong networks for many markets in the South and West. I think that B6 lives off of offering a very good product and strong network in certain markets.

The airlines made so many bad decisions over the past 30+ years, that miscalculating the returns of their FF programs would hardly be surprising. Indeed, it would be more surprising if they got them right, given how badly they screwed up pretty much everything else they touched.

As for continuing them... FF programs have value completely separate from any customer loyalty generation.

Because WN doesn't fly to:
Los Angeles
Orange County
San Francisco
Denver
Key West
Orlando
Palm Beach
Atlanta
Chicago
Minneapolis
Las Vegas
New York City
Philadelphia
Nashville
Salt Lake City
Washington DC
Seattle

Or any other place worth visiting.

Sure, you can cherry pick Delta focus cities and say you can fly non-stop to all kinds of destinations from them. Just as you can do the same for WN focus cities and claim you can't fly much of anywhere on Delta from them. If you travel to a variety of destinations, unless you live in the largest hubs chances are you're going to make a stop somewhere, and plenty of people don't mind that.

[QUOTE=sethb;22083133]If those other airlines aren't changing their FF programs, then they aren't losing any loyalty from changing their FF programs. /QUOTE]

In the case of B6 and VX, the programs are evolving, and recently added elite tiers that looks not dissimilar to the legacy elite tiers: priority security, early boarding, free checked bags, bonus points, waived fees, some form of access to some form of preferred seats.

Cost Breakdown BOS-SFO RT with one stop -bookable right now with RR points. Many other options and times available. Try that with the DL calendar or for that many points. May be not for you, but the FF program at WN ain't bad for the right person.

Adult 20,699 x 1
20,699 pts
Govt. Taxes & Fees
$10.00
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Trip Total
$10.00
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Just to be clear, I wouldn't be traveling with DL on BOS-SFO with regularity either.

And WN points aren't the same as DL points. Those RR points would carry a cost of between $2,070 and $3,450 if earned by flying. Using an average of $0.10 cost per DL mile, that would imply that a non-Medallion would earn between 21k and roughly 35k DL miles. I'm seeing plenty of BOS-SFO reward tickets for between 25k and 32.5k on DL, so I don't see the difference.

Ha!

the no upgrades on CA and JFK is just a travesty. I take that fight probably 10 times each way a year. the business elite upgrade is only so-so. i don't feel so elite there.

That's sort of my point.
But I don't see anywhere near as much availability at that point cost on the DL calendar either. You can also find flights on WN to many other nice cities besides your "murderer's row".

I only chose SFO because you had suggested that people only fly WN if they travel to cities that people such as yourself would not deign to set foot in. Availability on WN is high for other non "murderers row" cities besides SFO.

Might I suggest looking again. I see plenty of availability at the 32.5k threshold. And we will ignore that WN's lack of international awards greatly compromises potential value.

The point was that their network from Boston stinks. Yes, you could connect, but when you don't need to, you don't. Yes, if you must go to St Louis, WN is awesome, but if you are among the 95% of Bostonians that have no reason to go to St Louis, you don't have as much use for WN.

Considering that Rapid Rewards basically uses dynamic pricing for rewards, I'm not terribly surprised that they have "high" availability. Heck, DL has "high" availability, it is just a question of how poor you want your redemption value to be. Heck, DL offers pretty easy redemption at the roughly penny per mile that your RR redemption offers.

Congratulations on picking a DL focus city to compare WN to.