GRALISTAIR

At reduced rate 25$ per entry - but not free

MSPeconomist

No, the point is that the regular AmEx Plat charge card (NOT the DL Plat AmEx credit card, which is the one that allows the $25 lounge entry) gives lounge access to SCs when flying DL, to AA lounges when flying AA (but not the IFC section), and to US clubs if you can get to their door when flying any carrier. So for the $450-500 annual fee, do you want the DL Reserve card or the regular AmEx Platinum?

HillTiger

I fly the same route 90% of the time twice a month. I always have a Q class ticket and have not noticed any difference. Then again.... I generally only reach gold and am not a KM DYKWIA kind of flyer

GRALISTAIR

OK sorry my bad - I have a Delta Platinum Amex (but I am an SC member anyway)

PRWeezer

I have the AMEX Business Platinum which allows 'free' access to the SC & others as MSPEconomist pointed out. My understanding is that DL charges AMEX $25 when I enter the club, though I don't see that charge on my bill. So you were sort-of correct in your earlier point. I've had agents who waved off the card but I always give it back for them to scan it, saying every bit helps. ^

Dovster

The question is -- does that help or hurt Delta's bottom line?

True, I only spent $9,000 this year, but how much did giving me PM cost Delta? I would say the only extra cost (eg: cost in addition to flying me) was the extra SkyMiles.

I almost never get upgraded (as all my international segments, and most of my domestic segments) are in BE/FC. Hence, I am not even in competition with other medallions for battlefield upgrades.

Moreover, it doesn't cost Delta anything extra for my checked luggage. As I am flying BE across the pond, I am allowed (even without status) two checked suitcases (32 kg each) on all segments on that itinerary. True, being Elite + gives me the right for a third checked piece of luggage, but I have never flown with three.

On the other hand, I am far from being a hub captive. I can take LY, US, or Delta non-stop to the US and connect there or I can choose from a large number of European airlines, connect there, and continue to my first stop in the States.

Now, if you were in charge of Delta and wanted to make the most money possible, would you give me the PM status to lure me into flying with it or would you take away that status and risk me going on a competing airline?

DHalltheway

You also get the choice benefits.

Comparing US domestic travel with Overseas travel is alot tougher.

Dovster

Yes, I do. Let's look at them:

Silver Medallion status: I can give that to someone, which might save them a few dollars on baggage fees, but which will do nothing for me. On top of that, the recipient becomes more apt to fly Delta -- which makes it a Delta advertising gimmick.

SkyClub passes: I could get four of them. However, if I were to take the same trips next year that I do this year, I would only be able to use two (on the days that I fly JFK-LAS and SEA-LAS). There is no SkyClub in LAS and on all other days I will be flying internationally in Biz, and don't need the passes.

Tiffany gift card: I don't recall ever shopping in Tiffany's and have no plans to do so. Moreover, as they are worth $200 and I am spending $9000 to reach Platinum, they equate to a 2% discount.

Delta travel voucher: Good for one year, worth $200 (again, meaning a 2% discount) and locks me into flying on Delta -- a very good deal for Delta.

20,000 SkyMiles: I have found that SkyMiles are rather worthless to me except for upgrading M fares. As each upgrade TLV-USA is 25,000 SkyMiles in each direction, this does not do me much good.

4 SWUs: This is the only choice which makes any sense for me. It means that I can take two r/ts TLV-USA on M fares and upgrade them. That saves me $2000 ($1000 per r/t) but what does it really cost Delta? If I didn't have the SWUs or the SkyMiles to upgrade, I would not necessarily fly Delta. Instead, I would search out the least expensive Biz class tickets I could find on any airline. I don't argue that the SWUs are not good for me, but they are also good for Delta's bottom line.

gooselee

BTW - that wasn't meant as a jab at you personally. Just using you as a data point.

And I totally hear you. It is, after all, not about us, but about Delta and what generates the most profits for them. In the ways that you described, it does make sense to give you PM status if that's what keeps you flying Delta. On the flip side, me seeing these spend amounts and comparing them with my own kind of makes me wonder if I should leave DL (hub captivity, fare differences, and other things aside).

If others are reaching higher elite status than I am for the same spend (or the same status for less spend), then that's more competition for UGs, which impacts me directly, and more elite benefit cost to DL, which impacts me by potentially making DL more apt to decrease benefits for lower elites.

It seems likely that there are far more elites that are closer to your side of the pattern than mine, so at that point it becomes a numbers game. But for me, personally and selfishly, it would obviously be better if elite status were based on some metric where my flying patterns result in quicker and higher elite status than others. That's probably not what's best for the airline, and definitely not what's best for many others, but it would be great for me.

Dovster

I never thought it was.


If they are reaching higher elite status in the same way that I did, they are no competition to you for UGs at all. Look, for example, at my next itinerary: TLV-JFK-LAS-ATL-JFK-TLV.

I paid for an M fare and made certain that there was Z availability on my trans-Atlantic segments and, after making sure that there were, arranged to take the remaining segments where Z was available. I am sitting in BizElite/FC on every flight -- not because of my status (which right now is Gold and will only become Plat after the itinerary is finished) but because of the fare I chose and the SkyMiles I paid.

I could have done the exact same thing if I had no status at all (assuming I had the SkyMiles).

And, as I pointed out, I cost Delta very little in the way of elite benefits as I have very little opportunity to use them.

gooselee

Fair enough. Though I would counter that there are likely other pax who fly similar itineraries in a lower fare class (albeit they aren't receiving the fare bonus), are angling for the UGs, and would be my competition on flights to/from ATL. Sure, they're not competing on the distance routes, but they are on the connections to get to those distance routes.

Dovster

If they are competing with me they are doing it for the Z fares and that is done on a first-come, first-serve, basis without regard to status. I got them because I paid for them (with SkyMiles) before they tried to get them.

I should also point out that I am paying for M fares and a total of 50,000 SkyMiles for all the upgrades on my itinerary. Those only interested in the domestic connections need only to pay for K fares and 12,500 SkyMiles per flight.

Yes, by buying an M fare and using the SkyMiles I am taking a place in FC which would otherwise be open to an elite who would get it for free -- but my status has nothing to do with this. Delta, in addition, comes out ahead by my having bought this seat than by giving it for free to someone else. (Just as it would come out ahead by selling it at full J fare to someone who has never been on a Delta flight before in his life.)

Let's, however, say that I decide that next year, as a PM, I will take the exact same itineraries that I am taking this year and doing so on LUT fares.

How much competition will I give you?

My international flights, of course, will not come into play here. On my domestic flights, I will be competing for upgrades on the following segments:

JFK-ATL
ATL-LAS
LAS-MCO
MCO-JFK
JFK-SEA
SEA-SLC
SLC-LAS
LAS-ATL
ATL-JFK
JFK-LAS
LAS-ATL
ATL-JFK

That is a total of 12 segments in an entire year. Of these, 6 will be short flights (does it really matter if you are upgraded SLC-LAS or even MCO-JFK?) It leaves me with 6 flights that really mean something, and, on a LUT fare, even as a PM I would be lucky to get 3 upgraded.

yohanson

Do a MR/VR. Watch this forum: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/mileage-run-deals-372/ Go somewhere you've never been before and take lots of pictures!

yohanson

Oh, I should add, when I first started flying regularly for work and was a simple kettle, I thought everyone in FC was there because they or their company paid for them to be there. BWAHAHAHAHA

AA_EXP09

i.e. M YVR-HKG was $3300 at one point.
I could buy a BR Z fare for that money.
Or, buy a B fare on AC and upgrade with access to R space for minimal credits.
(To me, an eUG=1300 AC miles)