ADLFO

Actually, that wouldn't be a bad outcome to get rid of some of the entrenched management that is customer unfriendly. I realize that those same DL execs probably regard themselves as customer friendly, but FT or gamer unfriendly. However, those Marketing and MBA gurus are only friendly to the uninformed flyers who won't laugh out loud when they use words like enhancement, best-of-both, best-in-class, or improving the customer experience. If they can fool em, then they like them. They can't fool most FTers, so, many of them seem not to like us, and they do not wish to converse with us here, unlike other airlines representatives who are to be able to manage such a difficult feat. Why? They can't control the message here.

I really have enjoyed the great majority of DL employees that it has been my pleasure to meet over the years. I wish nothing but the best for them. For the execs who are on a crusade against the customer or just willingly ignorant of those efforts by those under them at DL, those are the people who I hope will be moving on in short order.

Like I said before, I hope DL does institute an all revenue based FFer program soon. Get rid of those gamers and all the people who have managed to educate themselves on the intricate and detailed systems and rules that you created. I think DL will survive, but just with new management. In my humble opinion, that would be a good thing.

WAS

I doubt that all it would take to sustain the world's largest airline would be the O&D traffic in and out of ATL, MSP, DTW, SLC, CVG and MEM.

Smaller, leaner is nice, but there are significant economies of scale in the airline business. That means larger aircraft and it's very difficult to fill every seat with only HVACs.

I realize that some people spend more $ and generate more profit than others, but since when does buying tickets and sending money to DL qualify as "blood sucking"? After all, they set the price.

HongKonger

Really... my sources told me they are going with the Spruce Goose.

avidflyer

And keep in mind: It only takes one of the big guys (UA/AA) to NOT do this and the choice for business travel will be clear. If left to Employees they will take the airline that gets them a little somethin-somethin over one that blanks them. If the price is the same and FF points can be had with one airline and not another (based on fare class) then guess where everyone will go.

Now, I believe they are all going there sooner or later but it will certainly be a huge disadvantage to the airline who moves first and alone and a potential massive pick-up of volume for the one who stays traditional FF program.

HongKonger

You failed to realize the sarcasm. It's ok, happens to me all the time.

ADLFO

I don't know, WN has managed to stay as the only free bags carrier after many projected they would fall into line with the legacies. Also, what would be AA/UAs motivation to go there (revenue based FFP) sooner or later if this change by DL resulted in big gains for them?

AA_EXP09

Kind of like WS transborder.

javabytes

Also from the 10-K, AmEx is buying $675 million worth of miles each year from 2011 through 2014.

AA_EXP09

But if UACO and AA raise their ticket prices slightly....

AA_EXP09

I know that AMEX has already bought in 2011....

sbjnyc

Amex bought $1 billion in 2011 (part of that is a current liability) and is expected to buy another $2 billion over 3 years. The credit card business is very very good for Delta. Sell to kettles at 3.5 cpm, discount them to 2 cpm with their 75% bonuses to make it sound like a good deal, and then sell them to Amex at maybe 1.5-2 CPM. All while they are being redeemed at around 1 cpm.

javabytes

Yes, those $675m were already purchased, and then further batches of $675m in 2012, 2013, and 2014 under the same agreement.

avidflyer

I think it will be a game of who will hurt you less for some time. I am not sure about the WN analogy as I am talking about the vast majority of flyers today: Consultants/employees traveling on somebody else's dime. The airlines implemented FF programs to win the "hearts and minds and backsides" of the hoards of business travellers who have SOME choice in who they fly. It seems to me that dismantling that will take a little more than DL launching a fare based program and everyone jumping in line to follow. I know I would look at it (if I were one of the competing airlines) as a weakness to exploit if I wanted to pick up market share...at least in the short term.

avidflyer

If they keep them within the typical +/- 5% then *most* employers are OK with employees sticking with their program. If I were UA/AA and DL did this I would be testing that limit for sure as the FF program itself would be a real differentiator.

AA_EXP09

Unless FTers are the ones redeeming.