Online no longer does award stopovers properly
Dec 22, 2011, 3:47 pm
#106
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 98
Q
Agent (after putting you on hold for 15 minutes): I was told by the rate desk that neither they nor ANYONE at Delta can change the pricing. The pricing is how it comes out. I was told that comparing the fare rules to the actual fare is like apples and oranges and that this was a big waste of their time (that's a direct quote, by the way).
Agent: your destination already is the stopover.
Agent: you can not have a stopover on a routing that is not operated by Delta.
Agent: you can not have stopovers on tickets which include airlines other than Delta. This is a (emphasis) SkyMiles award ticket, after all.
Agent: you can have a stopover, but then you need to pay for a second round trip flight. It is pricing correctly.
Agent (on an obvious routing, such as xxx(NA)-NRT-xxx(Asia): that is not a valid Delta routing, that is why you need to pay for a second round trip if you want a stopover at NRT.
Customer: but that is the only possible routing on Delta
Agent: it is not valid.
These are all real world actual responses.
Agent: your destination already is the stopover.
Agent: you can not have a stopover on a routing that is not operated by Delta.
Agent: you can not have stopovers on tickets which include airlines other than Delta. This is a (emphasis) SkyMiles award ticket, after all.
Agent: you can have a stopover, but then you need to pay for a second round trip flight. It is pricing correctly.
Agent (on an obvious routing, such as xxx(NA)-NRT-xxx(Asia): that is not a valid Delta routing, that is why you need to pay for a second round trip if you want a stopover at NRT.
Customer: but that is the only possible routing on Delta
Agent: it is not valid.
These are all real world actual responses.
That is alot of BS.. SO and OJ through Europe is the only reason why I am with Delta for international J. AA and BA thru London charges YQ up the rear... And United Luth.. was not really an option. Just priced out my trip in April via delta again. The open Jaw added another 45K miles and another 50 dollars in taxes..
Dec 22, 2011, 4:02 pm
#107
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Bye Delta
Programs: AA EXP, HH Diamond, IHG Plat, Hyatt Plat, Marriott Plat, Nat'l Exec Elite, Avis Presidents Club
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1. I was told by the rate desk that neither they nor ANYONE at Delta can change the pricing. The pricing is how it comes out. I was told that comparing the fare rules to the actual fare is like apples and oranges and that this was a big waste of their time (that's a direct quote, by the way).
2. Agent: your destination already is the stopover.
3. Agent: you can not have a stopover on a routing that is not operated by Delta.
4. Agent: you can not have stopovers on tickets which include airlines other than Delta. This is a (emphasis) SkyMiles award ticket, after all.
5. Agent: you can have a stopover, but then you need to pay for a second round trip flight. It is pricing correctly.
6. Agent (on an obvious routing, such as xxx(NA)-NRT-xxx(Asia): that is not a valid Delta routing, that is why you need to pay for a second round trip if you want a stopover at NRT.
Customer: but that is the only possible routing on Delta
Agent: it is not valid.
These are all real world actual responses.
2. Agent: your destination already is the stopover.
3. Agent: you can not have a stopover on a routing that is not operated by Delta.
4. Agent: you can not have stopovers on tickets which include airlines other than Delta. This is a (emphasis) SkyMiles award ticket, after all.
5. Agent: you can have a stopover, but then you need to pay for a second round trip flight. It is pricing correctly.
6. Agent (on an obvious routing, such as xxx(NA)-NRT-xxx(Asia): that is not a valid Delta routing, that is why you need to pay for a second round trip if you want a stopover at NRT.
Customer: but that is the only possible routing on Delta
Agent: it is not valid.
These are all real world actual responses.
2. Then what happens on a fare where stopovers aren't allowed? Am I not allowed to get off the plane at my destination?
3. Stopovers have nothing to do with what carriers I can fly. Since these are (emphasis) Skymiles award tickets, am I only allowed to fly on Delta flights?
4. Stopovers have nothing to do with what carriers I can fly. Since these are (emphasis) Skymiles award tickets, am I only allowed to fly on Delta flights?
5. "Permitted" means it's permitted (read: included) on this fare, not that it breaks the fare and I have to pay double.
6. Hard to argue that one, even if they're clearly wrong on a common routing, as the routing rules aren't available.
Dec 22, 2011, 4:07 pm
#108
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: HNL
Programs: DL PM/1MM, BW DE (lifetime), HH DE, Marriott PE (lifetime), National Emerald Executive
Posts: 7,205
That is alot of BS.. SO and OJ through Europe is the only reason why I am with Delta for international J. AA and BA thru London charges YQ up the rear... And United Luth.. was not really an option. Just priced out my trip in April via delta again. The open Jaw added another 45K miles and another 50 dollars in taxes..
It seems like the few agents who had ability to correct computer mispricing have now either had that taken away, OR there are some strong demerits in place for them ever using that privilege/access, if they still have it, so they are now thoroughly scared to reprice anything that is mispriced.
So, no more stopovers, no more open-jaws (as an open-jaw counts as a stopover, and as no more stopovers..).
Dec 22, 2011, 4:39 pm
#110
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: HNL
Programs: DL PM/1MM, BW DE (lifetime), HH DE, Marriott PE (lifetime), National Emerald Executive
Posts: 7,205
As DL showed in their investor presentation, their DoT complaints went down and that is the one and only metric by which they measure customer satisfaction, apparently. So, the key here is to get the DoT complaints to go way, way up for DL (re: T-72, voucher change, and now this).
Dec 22, 2011, 5:26 pm
#111
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: LAX
Programs: AA Gold (prev. Ex Plat for 10 years); DL Plat; UA Gold; Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,339
The better option here may be Christoper Elliott. This is a trend story waiting to be written - the slow kill Delta is intent to pull off on its elites. T-72, silver benefits, this change, there are a number of them that tell a story about Delta sort of crushing under the weight of its own bloated SkyMiles program.
Dec 22, 2011, 5:48 pm
#112
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: SLC
Programs: AS MVPG, AA G, Ex-DL GM, Ex-UA 1P
Posts: 208
I just noticed this today when attempting to book an award ticket to Canada. I was willing to look past most of the recent devaluations, but this is a huge one. Every other major airline allows at least either a stopover or one-way award redemptions, so now combined with such crappy award availability, loyalty to Delta is worthless.
Dec 22, 2011, 6:07 pm
#113
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: MN
Programs: Lots of programs, dirt on all of them!
Posts: 11,938
Dec 22, 2011, 6:16 pm
#114
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
... just wait until DL's revised mileage ticket repricing kicks into full gear. There will be even more of a "customer giveback" to Delta (in the form of a devaluation of SkyMiles miles accumulated by customer).
Dec 22, 2011, 7:55 pm
#115
Join Date: Jun 2010
Programs: Whatever's Cheapest, Accruing Miles, Redeeming for Premium Cabins, Not Chasing Status Unnecessarily
Posts: 2,264
NK did not respond to me until I filed a DOT complaint (and a cursory one at that)... I then had a response and favorable resolution regarding their crappy miles (the principle was the issue to me).
So yes, DOT complaints do work if even NK will respond to them.
Dec 22, 2011, 8:04 pm
#116
Join Date: Jun 2010
Programs: Whatever's Cheapest, Accruing Miles, Redeeming for Premium Cabins, Not Chasing Status Unnecessarily
Posts: 2,264
I think DL already knows that the majority people think of SM as SkyPesos.
So they prob figure that this majority of people won't mind if they can't do complex travel hacker itineraries.
But they figure that the travel hackers are getting too much value for the Peso.
So they figure "let's harvest the ham sandwich".
But they should at least be honest about the changes, even BA was honest, even though many people were disappointed with the segment pricing and BA didn't say anything until the pricing changed, once it did change, they were very forthright.
So they prob figure that this majority of people won't mind if they can't do complex travel hacker itineraries.
But they figure that the travel hackers are getting too much value for the Peso.
So they figure "let's harvest the ham sandwich".
But they should at least be honest about the changes, even BA was honest, even though many people were disappointed with the segment pricing and BA didn't say anything until the pricing changed, once it did change, they were very forthright.
Dec 22, 2011, 8:27 pm
#117
Join Date: Sep 2011
Programs: DL GM; AA; UA; BA
Posts: 82
If this is what the award pricing will now be, then it will definitely affect my thinking about who I travel. I haven't been all that disappointed with my ability to book award travel as I was always fairly flexible, so when I couldn't find round trip availability at the lower price point I could generally find availabilty using an open jaw or the stop over. If those are priced by what appears to be double miles required, and round trip availability at low level remains scarce, then I think I will have much less use for my miles on DL or its partners. If that is the case, I figure there will be much less of a compelling reason to sometimes take DL when other airlines have better routing or pricing, and of course, I would probably give up my DL Reserve Am Ex too. Oh well.
Last edited by TMitch6542; Dec 22, 2011 at 8:29 pm Reason: typo
Dec 22, 2011, 9:57 pm
#118
FlyerTalk Evangelist & Ambassador: China
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: DEN
Programs: DL DM/MM, UA 1K, AA Exp, HH Dia, WOH Glob, IHG Plat, Marriott Gold, NA EE, Hertz PC
Posts: 17,423
Oh, and I was recently (maybe 1 mo ago) getting the BS about published routing fares and this and that. To me it was just a lazy agent who refused to work on an itin that contained a SO and OJ.
to DL for taking away one of the remaining values of their program. Sinking ship going fast...
Dec 23, 2011, 7:45 am
#119
Used to be 'flymanbeast'
Join Date: Jul 2011
Programs: Delta silver/marriot platinum
Posts: 2,795
I will tell you that DOT complaints DO work, even with NK!
NK did not respond to me until I filed a DOT complaint (and a cursory one at that)... I then had a response and favorable resolution regarding their crappy miles (the principle was the issue to me).
So yes, DOT complaints do work if even NK will respond to them.
NK did not respond to me until I filed a DOT complaint (and a cursory one at that)... I then had a response and favorable resolution regarding their crappy miles (the principle was the issue to me).
So yes, DOT complaints do work if even NK will respond to them.
Dec 23, 2011, 7:51 am
#120
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: BOS/EAP
Programs: UA 1K, MR LTT, HH Dia, Amex Plat
Posts: 32,092
BBB and/or DOT is the right thing to do here. Delta has (again) lost their mind and the fact that nobody has even responded to this thread speaks for itself in a way.
