Tons of "reasonable" explanations and I get 'em, this still just irritates me to no end and I'm not alone.

Delta could hold a gate auction for kettles on sLUT fares, BEFORE processing BF upgrades for Elites, and fill all the FC empty seats for $20 upcharge each. FCM delivers a few $$ to the bottom line, Elites left in coach are fuming, but have no recourse to cry Shena because, after all, upgrades are on a "space available" basis.

The fact that they (are supposed to) process BF upgrades before calling an auction is a policy that could change tomorrow.

All we can hope is somebody at HQ sees our worries, and says "Hey, waitamminit....at what price point do we value a disgruntled un-upgraded Elite?"

The entire process of BF upgrading instead of at the formerly trustworthy windows is another form of this anxiety-inducing tease.

Apparently at -$30 for this route. :p

All depends on the fare. Some M fares are refundable, some aren't. Keep in mind that P fares aren't really P fares, they're an economy fare (could be M, could be K, could be U, all depends on what is filed) with a designator that allows you to clear an instant upgrade. Whether the ticket can be refunded or not depends on the specific fare rules.

OP hasn't told us whether this was a refundable M fare or not. Presuming that it's a refundable M, it makes a lot of sense that a non-refundable P fare would be a bit less.

If you look through the rough breakpoints between fare buckets, refundability is almost always the most significant factor.

If you are the traveler who can work with a non-refundable/changeable ticket, you should definitely by the P fare.

Why anybody thinks they have a complaint about what appears to be a solid decision by an operating for-profit business is beyond me.

You're making an assumption here. The people who complain don't see it as a solid decision.

As noted, depending on the fare rules for the ticket (and from the sounds of it - flexibility and refundability with an M fare varies from route-to-route), someone buying an M fare is buying flexibility and refundability. Delta is going after two different markets here.

As noted above, M fares often imply flexibility and refundability where as the P fare often does not, so the person buying a P fare is paying for restricted first class service rather than the flexible Economy service. And frequent fliers are free to play the game as well. They can wait till the last minute when they are more certain on their travel plans to try to see if they can snag a P fare. Nothing says they can't. But airfares are constantly changing. They go up and down. You could book a ticket today and one week from now the same flights and dates and fare codes are $100 less. Do you have a gripe with Delta or whatever airline then? Sure, it's frustrating, but this is no different. It's even happened to me. Delta is adjusting it's prices as needed to sell inventory.

The M fare was non-refundable.

I get and fully support that DL is looking to add some revenue through the FCM program and that it well within their right. The issue is that if you are trying to make $ on FCM then you actually charge a slight PREMIUM over fares in the back...you don't discount below what a coach seat is selling for. All this does is piss off elites who are loyal and drive far more revenue to the airline than the kettle seduced by the FCM opportunity.

There is a cost-benefit analysis that needs to be considered. If a DM (or any elite for that matter) drives business to DL in order to have preferential opportunity for what are admittedly space-available upgrades and are willing to pay more to fly DL than the competition that needs to factor into the equation. If elites feel they are not getting enough ROI for their own investment their loyalty will wane and they will have no issue shifting business to other carriers. End result: pax that are less price sensitive will move on to other airlines.

It's admittedly a balance and a dance I'm sure the airlines are comfortable with but my perceptions on what I saw on this flight search left a very bad taste in my mouth.

What possible business decision could this serve? I'm not saying there isn't one. But, it does seem rather foolish. They get less money AND irritated FFers.

Make $30 more if you upgrade the elite and sell the opened up coach seat at M.

I assue you Delta is very hypersensitive to this... I sent notes to them more than once this year on this subject and each time, I got a call from a Delta customer care person within minutes and each time I was moved to FC. The refundable fare thing may be true in some cases, but each time I called, I had a full Y fare and was not cleared to FC and saw they were selling P fares for cheaper than the Y fare. Blah blah blah refundable.... blah blah blah you should pay for FC... if anyone cares to patronize me with their superior business acumen, I invite you to void yourself up a rope... the practice is BS and even they know it...

Yes, especially when a business could be making MORE money by pricing a P fare at least $1 more than an M fare. I guess you don't understand business very well, but that's OK. Not everyone can.


+1 to both.

If they are DL shareholders, they can vote the Board out and install a Board which hires management they want. If they aren't, they can vote with their feet and fly the competition. This is a business decision, not a marriage.

But, looking at DL's financials this year, hard to say that it's not a "solid decision."

Didn't we cover this already in that thread after last quarter's results were posted? Paid F loads rose 8 points, revenue growth was a paltry 1%, and margin expectations were missed. Successful fuel hedges, lower fuel costs, same old story.

And if I recall correctly, paid F loads were touted as being 33%, up from 25%. However, at last year's investor day presentations they claimed a jump in paid F loads from 15% to 30%. Someone either needs to explain the trend or the spin.

http://milecards.com/3112/delta-adju...free-upgrades/

You are making a big assumption here: that a passenger will pay for the expensive M fare and fly coach. I think any business tries to get an advantage over the competitions offerings by doing stuff like this (offering web only fares and undercuts). I can almost guarantee that the P fare is not a published fare in this case but somehow run by a program based on F and Y availability. To "sweeten the deal" or entice the consumer, they sell a last minute P fare and give the passenger a first class seat. Having the two prices side by side it makes flying Delta and getting F a great deal. Unless you are on a higher fare flying the same O&D you can't really complain too much if someone is paying for the P fare.

As a side note, I have seen every US major carrier do this and I know it annoys many people but the only ones that can really be terribly upset are the ones that paid a higher fare for the exact same itinerary. Everyone else that is upset should be upset at themselves for not purchasing the seat for that price if they are unhappy that someone else did.