Please don't confuse us with facts. That is against the spirit of the loyalists who post on the DL forum:D

It may not be refundable but that does not mean it doesn't have other valuable benefits.

My M fare TLV-USA-TLV can be changed for up to 1 year at no charge (except for whatever difference in fares that might involve).

I am currently planning on flying TLV-JFK-LAS-ATL-JFK-TLV in December, with stopovers in JFK (one way), LAS, and ATL. It is considered to be a TLV-LAS-TLV itinerary with the maximum two permitted stopovers (JFK and ATL).

If I had purchased a K fare, I would not be allowed more than one stopover. Any change would involve a charge and the ticket's validity would be for a shorter period.

As things stand now, I could tell Delta that I will fly in June, keep my same outbound itinerary and, on my way back, fly LAS-MXP-TLV and Delta would arrange for me to be on a partner flight MXP-TLV.

I am glad that you appreciate my quick wit and cutting analysis. I recognize that my truths may be unpleasant, but they remain truths. Feel free to ignore me if you want, though, it will be your loss and not mine. ;)

On international flights, M fares are regularly more expensive than cheap business class (S or I fares)....Both are non-refundable

This is not new and has always been an issue when trying to use the SWUs

Yeah, like your 'truths' on another thread where you basically called me a liar that two tickets are not cheaper than one, but I gave you an example to prove it? I never said I appreciated your (lack of) cutting analysis. I just find it unfortunate that you embarrass yourself as much as you do. Sorry....no loss.

I think that is only true ex-USA. From Israel, M fares are invariably cheaper than S or I fares by a few hundred dollars. That, combined with the additional flexibility, is why I prefer to take them and sacrifice the SkyMiles for my upgrades.

1. Apparently, you consider $1 (or even $0) to be "substantial". The most common suggestion in this thread (did you read it?) is that Delta shouldn't sell F for less than Y.

2. Some people who "frequently" buy Delta tickets will often buy Delta tickets when they're slightly more expensive or less convenient than tickets from other airlines. This represents additional revenue to Delta. When such a customer sees Delta actually paying (that is, receiving less revenue from) others in order to seat them in F rather than Y, and such a customer therefore finds himself getting fewer free upgrades, said customer is much less likely to continue being loyal to Delta, resulting in a loss of revenue to Delta.

Want loyalty, buy loyalty. Selling F to kettles for $20 rather than upgrading medallions is bad enough; paying someone $20 to take it is a lot worse.

+1. But some people will never understand. I guess they need a bit more "cutting analysis" like yours :D

I didn't call you a liar for saying that two tickets are not cheaper than one. I said that you were conflating that fact with it not being possible to issue a single ticket. I acknowledged, multiple times and in plain language, that the ticket might be prohibitively expensive but that it could be issued.

I didn't go back to that thread and point out the obvious - which is that I was exactly right and that you misrepresented pricing issues as ticketing issues because I didn't think it necessary. You did it for me by posting the availability of single ticket options, though even then you didn't understand what you were posting. I didn't think it necessary to embarrass you and rub your face in it. But since you seem to like the taste so much that you bring it up here, I guess I have to, so I'll repeat it: you don't know what you are talking about and are misrepresenting pricing issues as ticketing issues.

So, yeah, my truths may be uncomfortable but they remain truths. You would do well to read them and actually understand them before trying to respond.

You misunderstand. I don't actually care whether it is a substantial premium or not, nor do I have a definition for it. My point is that airline pricing is dynamic and relates more to competitor pricing, capacity, and demand than the price for a seat in Y. I'm sure that DL doesn't want to make a habit of selling F below Y, but there may be times that it is the right call, even if seems counter-intuitive.

We are talking about a company that sells millions of tickets, these sorts of things should be expected, not blown up into some grand conspiracy to stick it to their "most valuable customers."

Then those people are incredibly unlucky. I won't repeat why it is impossible for DL to actually charge FFers more, but suffice it to say, they can't. Invariably, though, such claims are like the guys who "always win" in Vegas - forgetting the losses and remembering the wins. The "I pay more" crowd are almost certainly forgetting when DL presents the best deal.

Only here in FT. Lucky for the shareholders, I doubt anyone here will get close to a job in the C suite :)

no one is selling F to "kettles" for $20 rather then upgrading anyone. They are selling F to EVERYONE before upgrading medallions which in this day & age of "Medallion" not equalling customers that "spend" more a good business decision.

To many (not all) here in FT love to brag how they earned Medallion, 1K or ExPlat for ridiculously low yearly spends. The airlines realize this. They are not stupid & while they have offered benefits that are "guaranteed", They don't say they can first try to squeeze every dollar they can first out if their "passengers". I don't use the word "kettles" since almost everyone here is a "kettle" compared to someone else.

As we are discussing FCM and its effects on the Delta SkyMiles program (revenue from upsell vs. upgrades as a FF benefit), it has everything to do with the topic at hand.

Very well said.

Please avoid quoting people now on my Ignore list. Unfortunately FT can't suppress their tyrads when they are quoted in others' posts :)