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Originally Posted by bubbashow
(Post 18207861)
Probably the precise demographic that DL should be putting in its rightful place. If you do buy F,A,P, SURELY you'd like to see the product improved. Getting rid of the chaff will allow DL to do that.
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Originally Posted by bubbashow
(Post 18207851)
Originally Posted by dcline414
(Post 18207821)
^ +100000000
As an ATL based flyer (that DL apparently believes to be a captive customer), I am STRONGLY considering a move to UA. Delta is CONSTANTLY 50% higher than UA fares to the destinations I travel to. Why would I pay this much of a premium to sit in coach? Plus, as a borderline GM/PM segment qualifier, I try to fly connecting flights as much as possible, which is even MORE expensive on DL. I could easily be top tier on UA and save my clients money in the process. Why would I pay an additional premium to attain status of ever decreasing value? I am flat out sick of boarding with 75% of the plane in "sky" zone and I have only been upgraded on 3/91 flights in the past year. What carrot is Delta offering to make putting up with the miserable experience they offer to/from ATL? They SkyPesos that are constantly being devalued are certainly worth less and less every day. I bring Delta over $20k of revenue per year. What incentive is Delta giving someone in my situation to stay 100% loyal to them? By all means, Delta is free to monetize FC and sell elite benefits to AmEx holders and a la carte to everyone else. But I believe they are beyond the breaking point. The market may be slow to react because changing airline loyalty is a major decision not done lightly. I think a mass exodus is in the near future for Delta, and those lost customers will not be quick to return when Delta realizes the error of their ways. I don't know what kind of business you are in, but I would sure love to have the luxury of the time you have. I surely don't (and I think most people that really are business people don't either). Read the UA thread - see how green the grass is over there. LOL. GO! That'll learn 'em for actually selling their product. LMAO! UA doesn't board their entire plane at once, calling everyone "special" like a kindergarten teacher. UA has a market-specific revenue-based elite tier (GS) that I would have a good chance of qualifying for as a non-hub flyer. Delta doesn't fly nonstop to everywhere out of ATL (believe it or not) and many of their direct flights are later in the day since ATL departures are timed to allow feeder flights to arrive first. You would be surprised how often I can get to a client's location earlier on a UA connecting flight (and get upgraded AND save said client $200). Delta's "value" proposition isn't nearly as strong as you might think. |
I bring Delta over $20k of revenue per year. What incentive is Delta giving someone in my situation to stay 100% loyal to them? I am not a high revenue or frequent flier, and I don't want to be rude, but this smells a like like DYKWIA. And it doesn't smell any better on here than it does in the airport or on an airplane. Most of the FT'ers here are business people who fly for business. Of all people, you should understand that you don't give away what you can sell and make money off of. You may give some bonuses here or there, or a freebie or two, but you are trying to make money ... a lot of it. And giving stuff away isn't going to help you do that. It doesn't help Delta either. |
Originally Posted by dcline414
(Post 18208003)
I would rather spend more time in travel if that time was less stressful and and more productive.
UA doesn't board their entire plane at once, calling everyone "special" like a kindergarten teacher. UA has a market-specific revenue-based elite tier (GS) that I would have a good chance of qualifying for as a non-hub flyer. Delta doesn't fly nonstop to everywhere out of ATL (believe it or not) and many of their direct flights are later in the day since ATL departures are timed to allow feeder flights to arrive first. You would be surprised how often I can get to a client's location earlier on a UA connecting flight (and get upgraded AND save said client $200). Delta's "value" proposition isn't nearly as strong as you might think. |
Originally Posted by dcline414
(Post 18207821)
Plus, as a borderline GM/PM segment qualifier, I try to fly connecting flights as much as possible, which is even MORE expensive on DL. <snip>
I bring Delta over $20k of revenue per year. Domestic sLUT (Medallion) fliers are very similar to green chip blackjack players. They spend a lot of time flying (playing); and get very little in return. Yet the airline (casino) are reluctant to tell them that they are not particularly valuable as customers. (also, both parties tend to complain and moan a lot :D ) |
I fear a WN type scheme will be implemented by DL where mileage/segment based FF miles become a thing of the past and price plays more into the FF points earned.
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Originally Posted by dcline414
(Post 18208003)
You would be surprised how often I can get to a client's location earlier on a UA connecting flight (and get upgraded AND save said client $200).
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Originally Posted by 3Cforme
(Post 18208311)
I would be surprised. In fact, I challenge you to list cities from ATL which can be reached earlier in the day on UA ATL-xxx-destination than on DL ATL-destination. Then we can look at DOT data and see just how many people fly ATL-destination per day and judge whether that is significant, and if Delta has a demonstrated failure to serve its ATL market.
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Originally Posted by gelaro
(Post 18208175)
I bring Delta over $20k of revenue per year. What incentive is Delta giving someone in my situation to stay 100% loyal to them? I am not a high revenue or frequent flier, and I don't want to be rude, but this smells a like like DYKWIA. And it doesn't smell any better on here than it does in the airport or on an airplane. Most of the FT'ers here are business people who fly for business. Of all people, you should understand that you don't give away what you can sell and make money off of. You may give some bonuses here or there, or a freebie or two, but you are trying to make money ... a lot of it. And giving stuff away isn't going to help you do that. It doesn't help Delta either. I know my spend with Delta isn't even a drop in the bucket to them. My point was that I am not a leisure sLUT fare traveler, and I think there are probably a lot of inconsequential medallions like me in a similar situation. I am not threatening Delta, and I don't expect them to read my post and jump to react. I simply intended to point out that their customer base may only APPEAR to be very price inelastic and willing to pay higher prices while giving up benefits. But at some point (which Delta may or may not ever sink to), customers WILL begin to defect. In my opinion, this is not a commodity business to frequent flyers. Personally, I will be as close to 100% loyal to the airline that offers the best value proposition to me. If others feel the same way, the first sign of a drop in the customer base could represent a significant and lasting drop-off in revenue. What is best for Delta's profitability in the near term could have unforeseen costs in the future that are difficult to recover from. I use my own situation simply as an example of this. |
Originally Posted by bubbashow
(Post 18207861)
Probably the precise demographic that DL should be putting in its rightful place. If you do buy F,A,P, SURELY you'd like to see the product improved. Getting rid of the chaff will allow DL to do that.
But I guess it will be good for you that the "chaff" are put into their "rightful" :rolleyes: place. Yeah boy, put them little low class peoples back into steerage. I do thank you for the useful reminder that it's time to double the contents of my ignored user list. ^ ^ ^ Ciao! :D David edit: that's much better. |
Originally Posted by 3Cforme
(Post 18208311)
Originally Posted by dcline414
(Post 18208003)
You would be surprised how often I can get to a client's location earlier on a UA connecting flight (and get upgraded AND save said client $200).
But living in ATL, Delta isn't always the best choice. For example, I am looking at going to Albany, NY. UA can get me there on a Monday morning at 9:34 (through IAD), but Delta can't get me there until 11:46 (nonstop or through DTW). Many weeks, Delta is more expensive. How do you justify to a client paying more to arrive over 2 hours later? |
FCM meaning?
which of these does FCM mean?
FCM Federation of Canadian Municipalities FCM Faculdade de Ciencias Medicas (Medical Sciences Faculty, Lisbon, Portugal) FCM Fawning Corporate Media FCM Family Case Manager FCM Fellowship of Christian Magicians FCM Federation of Christian Ministries FCM Faculty of Commerce and Management (University of Dar Es Salaam, Tanzania) FCM Financial Capital Maintenance FCM Flash Cache Module (internal computer flash drive) FCM Food Chain Multiplier FCM Foreign Consequence Management FCM Fellowship of Christian Motorcyclists FCM Fast Component Mounter (Philips) FCM Football Club Midtjylland (Danish soccer team) FCM Field Control Module FCM Frame Code Mode FCM Faithful Companion Memorials (Royal Oak, MI) FCM Future Capability Mission FCM Full-Cost Move FCM Focused Conversation Method FCM Fuzzy Cluster Means FCM Ferrocarril Mexicano Railroad FCM FLIR Characterization Module FCM Frequent Caller Minute FCM Fussball Club Münchwilen (Swiss soccer club) FCM Fast Concept Modeller FCM Funky Cold Medina (song) FCM Full Circle Magazine (est. 2007) FCM Frequency Controlled Motor FCM First Trust/Four Corners Senior Floating Rate Income Fund (stock symbol) FCM Funds Control Module (Army) FCM Fibre Channel Module FCM Financial Controls Management FCM Flow Cytometry FCM Foster Care Maintenance (various locations) FCM Fuel Containing Mass (NPP Accident) FCM Florida Citrus Mutual FCM Fracture Critical Member FCM Field Case Management FCM First-Class Mail FCM Friends of Cathedral Music (est. 1956) FCM Fuzzy Cognitive Map FCM Futures Commission Merchant FCM Financial Center Manager FCM Forex Capital Market (also seen as FXCM) FCM Frank Crawford Martin (Miami, FL public school) |
Originally Posted by bubbashow
(Post 18207861)
Probably the precise demographic that DL should be putting in its rightful place. If you do buy F,A,P, SURELY you'd like to see the product improved. Getting rid of the chaff will allow DL to do that.
Originally Posted by DiverDave
(Post 18208700)
...
But I guess it will be good for you that the "chaff" are put into their "rightful" :rolleyes: place. Yeah boy, put them little low class peoples back into steerage. ... I have been waiting a lot time to find an apropos way of responding to the attitude demonstrated in the post you cited. Somehow, it reminds me of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6NU9...eature=related (I'm going to get a lot of enjoyment out of linking to this BC TV series... :D:D:D) |
Originally Posted by mikeef
(Post 18205743)
Here's a story that a former professor once used to show how airline pricing works. Well, he wasn't using it for airline pricing, but it works just the same. It does not deal with the upgrade question, so it is tangential to this thread, but it is interesting just the same.
Imagine there are 20 students in a class. On the first day of class, the professor tells the class that he is going to ignore all their tests and that they will get an A or an F from him based on one factor: Do they have one of the specially marked dollar bills that he is holding? The students will each have the opportunity to buy one, and only one, dollar bill from him during the first week. Those who have a bill by the end of the first week get an A. Everyone else gets an F. The professor will sell the bills at whatever price the market will handle, whether it is higher or lower than $1. Furthermore, any bills that the professor holds at the end of the week will turn to dust, so they are worthless to him. The professor seeks to maximize his own wealth. In scenario A, the professor has 21 bills. In other words, the supply of bills is greater than the demand (or substitute "seats" for "bills" when dealing with an airline). In this case, the students ("passengers") have all of the power. Since one bill ("seat") is as good as another (remember, this is the tangential thread) and the professor must sell the bills or find them to be worthless, the students can buy them for anything they want. Sure, a student who delays until the end of the week may find the professor a little reluctant to give them away cheaply, but ultimately, he knows that any sale greater than his variable cost (which, in this case, is zero) will maximize his wealth, so he is willing to sell the bill at a discount just to get something for it. In scenario B, the professor has 19 bills (i.e., demand > supply). All of a sudden, he has all of the power. The students must have a bill, just like the consultant who must get to his client. Sure, he may price a few bills "cheaply" at the beginning of the week just to make sure that he gets a little cash in the door, but as the week progresses, the supply-demand dynamics work increasingly in the professor's favor. By the end of the week, students who want to pass will pay a significant premium to $1 to get that bill. The first year that the professor plays this game, he's not going to have a particularly good idea of exactly how much students will pay. But by the 10th year, he'll know exactly how the pattern and pricing of sales will work, and he'll maximize his revenue by setting prices correctly throughout the sales process. Revenue management works the same way: the airlines have reams of data and use it to price. Mike Great post. Thanks for taking the time to write it... Unfortunately, the point of the argument in this thread has nothing to do with supply/demand logic. The point of the argument in this thread is that folks of varying levels of status used to get something for nothing, DL changed their business model, and now the something for nothing is not as available as often as it was before... or not as available as early as it was before, creating a perceived wrong (that being having to endure the torture of an UG at the gate vs the window). The other point of the argument in this thread is the argument itself. In fact, I suspect this to be the main point of the thread. In the meantime, DL revenue management models will be continually tweaked to maximize profit. Indeed... I wonder how many people complaining on this thread are the very same folks who are responsible for cost/benefit analysis and/or revenue management in their own organizations. |
Originally Posted by bartendress
(Post 18208831)
The point of the argument in this thread is that folks of varying levels of status used to get something for nothing,
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