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Originally Posted by BamaGirl
(Post 18207786)
I think there is another group of FFers that is not being considered in this discussion. Those who have been booking K+ fares in order to improve their chances for domestic upgrades. Or, to be able to use miles or SWUs to upgrade. Now that DL has zeroed out V/G on many flights, I suspect a lot of these flyers could become LUT flyers since many companies will not allow the buying of an F fare (be it A, P or F). There would be no point for them to continue to spend the extra money on K+ if it becomes apparent the odds of an upgrade are non-existent. I'd be curious how the numbers shake out between the A/P/F buyers (which are a finite number per flight) vs the flyers who might now book the lowest fare, instead of spending the extra (minimum) $30-50ish for K+ (which could be a much larger number based on the sheer number of seats sold as K, H, Q, M, B, Y). Perhaps a case of diminishing returns in the long run?
Originally Posted by glbetrotter
(Post 18209359)
It is sad that DL is as myopic as is this statement. Profit will start to decline pretty quickly when people who buy high fares to increase their chances of sitting upfront will go to LUTs (and pay change fees, still less than YBMs) or will reduce their flying altogether. Business flyers is a very dynamic group, it will start shrinking pretty quickly ... Already has.
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Originally Posted by glbetrotter
(Post 18209359)
It is sad that DL is as myopic as is this statement. Profit will start to decline pretty quickly when people who buy high fares to increase their chances of sitting upfront will go to LUTs (and pay change fees, still less than YBMs) or will reduce their flying altogether. Business flyers is a very dynamic group, it will start shrinking pretty quickly ... Already has.
It's fact of life. I'm not holding myself as some altruistic example of bare-bones, supply/demand bearer of truth. I, too, look at the available fares and make a calculation to see if I can justify the higher fare that increases my UG odds. In fact, this is my first year to play the game with DL status... At the end of the day, I want my company to be profitable... And it's through that lens that I look at FF program bennies. DL can UG everyone every day... until they go belly up. Then where are we? |
Originally Posted by bartendress
(Post 18208831)
Hey, Mike.
Great post. Thanks for taking the time to write it... Unfortunately, the point of the argument in this thread has nothing to do with supply/demand logic. The point of the argument in this thread is that folks of varying levels of status used to get something for nothing, DL changed their business model, and now the something for nothing is not as available as often as it was before... or not as available as early as it was before, creating a perceived wrong (that being having to endure the torture of an UG at the gate vs the window). The other point of the argument in this thread is the argument itself. In fact, I suspect this to be the main point of the thread. In the meantime, DL revenue management models will be continually tweaked to maximize profit. Indeed... I wonder how many people complaining on this thread are the very same folks who are responsible for cost/benefit analysis and/or revenue management in their own organizations. Based on your logic, bartenders should no longer be tipped. |
Originally Posted by bartendress
(Post 18209418)
Is it sad?... Really?
It's fact of life. I'm not holding myself as some altruistic example of bare-bones, supply/demand bearer of truth. I, too, look at the available fares and make a calculation to see if I can justify the higher fare that increases my UG odds. In fact, this is my first year to play the game with DL status... At the end of the day, I want my company to be profitable... And it's through that lens that I look at FF program bennies. DL can UG everyone every day... until they go belly up. Then where are we? |
Originally Posted by Thomas Hudson
(Post 18209421)
Based on your logic, bartenders should no longer be tipped.
Bartenders are rewarded for providing a service. In your scenario, the customer is rewarded for purchasing the service. |
Originally Posted by glbetrotter
(Post 18209359)
Business flyers is a very dynamic group, it will start shrinking pretty quickly ... Already has.
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never mind
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Originally Posted by bartendress
(Post 18209469)
Your analogy is not valid.
Bartenders are rewarded for providing a service. In your scenario, the customer is rewarded for purchasing the service. |
Originally Posted by Frozentech
(Post 18209498)
Delta saw that, reduced flights to increase load factors, and seemingly has replaced the missing business fliers with less frequent fliers. End result has been profit, not the loss we here on FT foretold.
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Originally Posted by Thomas Hudson
(Post 18209583)
So, the economy is tough and I gotta do what I gotta do to save money. I can save money by not tipping bartenders from here on out. I am sure it will not affect me negatively as I will end up with more money in my pocket at the end of the night. Isn't that what this is all about?
But it will affect you negatively. If you're not tipping, I'll get to you when I have a free moment. You may have more money in your wallet, but it's entirely likely that you're the last schmuck who's 'partying like a rock star'... trust. Your analogy is bad because DL isn't relying on tips (bartenders/bartendresses operate WAY below minimum wage). DL is going after the most PAX at the best overall price per seat. |
DL pricing to DEN was jacked recently
I was shopping for a r/t from MSP about 17 days out and I saw M fares for about $580 while A was $525. The cheapest coach was $410 on delta.com, but through 3rd party sites on the same itinerary was $335. Their revenue management system needs some help.
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Originally Posted by bartendress
(Post 18209675)
But it will affect you negatively. If you're not tipping, I'll get to you when I have a free moment. You may have more money in your wallet, but it's entirely likely that you're the last schmuck who's 'partying like a rock star'... trust.
Your analogy is bad because DL isn't relying on tips (bartenders/bartendresses operate WAY below minimum wage). DL is going after the most PAX at the best overall price per seat. |
Originally Posted by ElmhurstNick
(Post 18203011)
One of my staff is a GM and has an unexpected 1500 mile each way day trip with four days notice. He's also 6'7". He's only allowed to get reimbursed for M, but he's absolutely going to buy the "discounted" F fare which is about $150 more RT. Getting some rest each way is worth it to him, and if I was allowed to reimburse him for discounted F, I'd do it in a heartbeat.
You are allowed to . You'll just have $150 less in your pocket after that heartbeat |
Originally Posted by Thomas Hudson
(Post 18209599)
Short term results validate the decision?
There are lots of ways to get quick shots to revenue and profitability, but the key is to not undermine the company's ongoing success or viability. Especially in the short-run, companies can jack up prices on some products/goods/services as the customer base won't immediately flee. The issue is that pissing off the bulk of your customer base and/or a profitable segment of the customer base is a strategy to lose money in the long term--no matter what happens in the short term. I understand that Delta is a business, and am (frankly) less upset than some others with recent changes. Nevertheless, I worry that Delta will take it too far and piss off some of their most profitable customers, leading to lower long-term returns for the company. If they find a way to piss off only low-revenue, low-yield passengers while making high-yield, high-revenue passengers happy, then by all means they should do so. If they diminish the loyalty of high-revenue passengers by milking a small amount of additional revenue from a small group of leisure travelers and kettles, then it will turn out to be a disaster in the long term, IMHO. |
Originally Posted by Thomas Hudson
(Post 18209692)
It is one of the oldest stories in the world... you take care of those who take care of you.... the quickest way to become a commodity is to treat your customers like you are....
If party A is willing to pay me more than party B... Party A rides the party train. But.. but.. but... I rode the train x-times at x-amount!! Too bad, so sad! Party A is willing to pay me more than party B... |
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